Fighting in Gaza Strip

[FlamingLonghorn]

Ground War has begun...

[peter12]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Hey my family was Irish...should I start to hate the English for the potato famine? I mean really I could feel bitter towards quite a few family members now!!! Mind you as an Englishman I could feel bitter about the Yanks chasing us off but then I would have to hate some more family members! Wait! One of my Uncles died when he was captured by the Japs!! I should go and slap my wife in the head and kick my children!! Then again I should be wary since my relative nuked my family's relatives! Someone may get me!!!

Your uncle is either VERY old or just holding onto some historical grievance that really doesn't affect his life at all. Something tells me that your uncle didn't fire off a rocket into England and would never excuse such action at all. It is a very pathetic culture that uses past grievances to excuse any behavior. Hamas has no link to the Palestinian past of 1948 beyond the fact they are a Palestinian group. They are a Iranian fed terrorist group that wiped out their rivals in Gaza.

A very sorry culture that is!

I want to say thanks again for this post. Excuses for nationalist feelings are such bullshat.

[Nage Waza]

I can understand the frustration of the average Palestinian, their world is pretty bleak. However, to try to reverse history is not going to work. Siding with terrorists clearly is not working.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by peter12

I want to say thanks again for this post. Excuses for nationalist feelings are such bullshat.

I'm confused. I'll agree that being upset over something that happened hell even 60 yrs ago isn't logical. However, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been going on for years and still is going on. Let's not forget that the closest they ever came to peace was thwarted by an Israeli (Rabin's assassination). Hamas needs to go away and the Palestinians and Israelis need to find a way to make Palestine a nation.

[bcb]

Originally Posted by Sowa

I'm confused. I'll agree that being upset over something that happened hell even 60 yrs ago isn't logical. However, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been going on for years and still is going on. Let's not forget that the closest they ever came to peace was thwarted by an Israeli (Rabin's assassination). Hamas needs to go away and the Palestinians and Israelis need to find a way to make Palestine a nation.

Therein lies the problem: Hamas isn't going to disappear by itself. People with a terrorist mindset understand only one thing: force.

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by Sowa

Ground War has begun...

This is going to get ugly IMO.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Sowa

I'm confused. I'll agree that being upset over something that happened hell even 60 yrs ago isn't logical. However, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been going on for years and still is going on. Let's not forget that the closest they ever came to peace was thwarted by an Israeli (Rabin's assassination). Hamas needs to go away and the Palestinians and Israelis need to find a way to make Palestine a nation.

Well, to be fair, I don't think the current incarnation of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is nationalist in nature. Hamas isn't the PLO and they would NOT be satisfied with the independence of Palestine. They are an organization dedicated to the destruction of Israel and the establishment of a Muslim state.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by bcb

Therein lies the problem: Hamas isn't going to disappear by itself. People with a terrorist mindset understand only one thing: force.

Definitely won't be easy. The Palestinians themselves need to help get rid of them and help us cut off the supply lines from Iran. Now we just need to convince the Palestinians that.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

This is going to get ugly IMO.

Its been ugly....for decades. Sans a few years in the 90's which was eradicated when Hamas decided to start blowing up buses in Tel Aviv and other cities...completely unprovoked.

I feel very bad for the Palestinian people...they simply have no idea as to what to do. Ill-informed, very under eduacted, taught to hate from early on....so they only know one thing and that is to kill in an attempt to make change for themselves. Thier leadership is ruthless in their complete disregard for peace for their people.

The ground force was inevitable in this situation. It's sort of a David and Goliath situation when Hamas keeps rabbit punching israel with rocket launch after rocket launch, and Israel being a military power responds with what they have. No it is not a "fair" fight, but rarely is it ever when it comes to protecting sovereignty.

Egypt and Jordan have a huge responsibility here to as they deny Palestinians entrance when requested...which i do not understand.

Anyhow....it boils down to one thing....pick on the big guy even though you may feel bullied and you are going to feel his wrath.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Egypt and Jordan have a huge responsibility here to as they deny Palestinians entrance when requested...which i do not understand.

I would say that Egypt is going to wash their hands over Palestinians in Gaza, and really one can hardly blame them. It seems that the Arab/muslim world is growing tired of Hamas/Syria/Iran and their shenenigans. They realize Israel is here to stay and the fact that Syria/Iran is using Palestinians as a proxy in their jihad against Israel is not helping anyone in the region.

I agree that Israel had no other choice, and if there is still any room for diplomacy left, it is crucial to persuade Arab countries to push harder against Syria/Iran. It is in their own interest too, after all.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Egypt and Jordan have a huge responsibility here to as they deny Palestinians entrance when requested...which i do not understand.

Egypt's stake in all of this is quite high. Hamas is a branch of their own local terrorist organization, the muslim brotherhood. Egypt which is a nationalist state, has been fighting the muslim brotherhood for decades.

If Egypt opened their borders to Hamas, it would simply bolster the MB.

As for Jordan, they were involved in an extensive civil war with the Palestinians themselves. Its estimated that tens of thousands of people died in this war. During this war, that lasted a relatively short amount of time, the Jordanians killed more Palestinians than the Israelis did during the course of the entire conflict.

That being said, there are a lot of innocent Palestinians in Gaza right now too. It's really sad watching this unfold.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by blankall

That being said, there are a lot of innocent Palestinians in Gaza right now too. It's really sad watching this unfold.

The real tragedy in all this is the surviving kids, seeing relatives and friends killed on the streets will embed in their minds until they awake as an adult full of hate and the need to kill. It just goes on and on and on.

History shows if a government doesn't admit to a mistake and try to make amends hatred will run rampid for generations...the exception may be Germany after WWII.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by T@T

The real tragedy in all this is the surviving kids, seeing relatives and friends killed on the streets will embed in their minds until they awake as an adult full of hate and the need to kill. It just goes on and on and on.

History shows if a government doesn't admit to a mistake and try to make amends hatred will run rampid for generations...the exception may be Germany after WWII.

And as long as Hamas is allowed to exist, it WILL keep going on and on.

Sadly, in order to get rid of them, innocent people will die.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Sowa

Definitely won't be easy. The Palestinians themselves need to help get rid of them and help us cut off the supply lines from Iran. Now we just need to convince the Palestinians that.

The Palestinians are not easy to convince because they have nowhere to turn. Their legitimate politcal leaders are powerless in the face of Israel and Hamas... they are broke and have almost no policing or military power. There are no social systems and they practically rely on Hamas to provide services and to protect them. Jordan has proven to be unreliable and bears a large part of their plight, and most of their neighbours just want to use them to keep Israel on the offense.

Some countries do provide the Palestinians with aid, but they are really limited with what they can do with it. Israel doesn't want them to have a powerful military and without that, there is no way we could expect them to erradicate Hamas. I remember reading about how during the last Israeli invasion into Palestinian territory, they bombed several jails and police stations to kill terrorists being held there. Some say it was a needed step in order to avoid having them released, but at the same time, it makes it really hard to incarcerate terrorists when you no longer have the facilities.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by T@T

The real tragedy in all this is the surviving kids, seeing relatives and friends killed on the streets will embed in their minds until they awake as an adult full of hate and the need to kill. It just goes on and on and on.

History shows if a government doesn't admit to a mistake and try to make amends hatred will run rampid for generations...the exception may be Germany after WWII.

Classic example of how violence begets violence. Are certain regions prone to war because the people have a tendency towards violence, or do societies become violent due to a history of war and invasion.

Personally, I tend to think most of the time it is the latter.

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't like the Civilian Casualties at all, but I understand that in open warfare that they do happen, and usually in greater numbers because Civilians are soft targets.

At this point, Israel is not going to stop until they make it impossible for Hamas to keep launching their missiles.

The thing that I find the most puzzling is the constant use of international law comments when it comes to Israel, but they don't use the same terminology when it comes to Hamas who represent an elected government.

The war on terror terminology to me is incorrect as well. Hamas represents the Palestine people as their governing body in Gaza so their rocket attacks constitute an illegal and undeclared war by a nation state, which in the purest form makes Israel's reaction legal, if overblown.

I doubt that Israel will agree to any kind of ceasefire without a unilateral guarantee from Hammas that they won't launch any rockets or use what is now state sponsered terrorist tactics.

I doubt that Hammas will agree to any terms because the civilian casualties are beneficial to their cause and it fosters a further breeding ground for angry young terrorists.

My preference would be a heavily armed UN war force that will sit between the two and threated to crush the country that fires first.

[Burninator]

Gaza Strip would be a good name for a gentleman's club.

[CaptainCrunch]

As one camel said to another

"Hey that looks just like my toe"

[CaptainCrunch]

Interesting Live leak video of Hammas using ambulances as troop carriers.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=116_1231063776

[TheDragon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Interesting Live leak video of Hammas using ambulances as troop carriers.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=116_1231063776

Saw that before. Notice the UN logos painted on them, too.