January 1, 2009 - 4 murders in Calgary

[bcb]

Originally Posted by nik-

Some people need to visit more major US cities to get a little bit of perspective on Calgary.

This is typical Michael Moore logic (Sarnia is Canada's worst slum) coupled with Canadians' superiority/inferiority/snob complex.

The fact is, there are parts of Vancouver, Regina, Winnipeg and Toronto that even the police try to avoid. I am sure that in these especially crime ridden areas, the violent crime rate is comparable to major US cities.

However, the more depressing aspect is, even if Canada is currently safer than the US, major crime in Canada is spiking at a rate that within five years, you could rename MacLeod Trail "8 Mile".

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by bcb

This is typical Michael Moore logic (Sarnia is Canada's worst slum) coupled with Canadians' superiority/inferiority/snob complex.

The fact is, there are parts of Vancouver, Regina, Winnipeg and Toronto that even the police try to avoid. I am sure that in these especially crime ridden areas, the violent crime rate is comparable to major US cities.

However, the more depressing aspect is, even if Canada is currently safer than the US, major crime in Canada is spiking at a rate that within five years, you could rename MacLeod Trail "8 Mile".

This makes little/no sense?

Where did the "Sarnia is Canada's worse slum" come from? Is that a Michael Moore thing?

Canada with a superiority/inferiority/snob complex? Covering all the bases there, aren't you.

Would you care to provide any proof of your claim about the parts of those Canadian cities and their crime rates, or are we just supposed to accept it as true?

[Displaced Flames fan]

http://www.wwltv.com/topstories/stor....2ebfa6dd.html

New Orleans, I believe, has trumped Detroit as the most violent city in the US in recent years.

Looks like they're having a similar start.

[Suave]

Originally Posted by bcb

This is typical Michael Moore logic (Sarnia is Canada's worst slum) coupled with Canadians' superiority/inferiority/snob complex.

The fact is, there are parts of Vancouver, Regina, Winnipeg and Toronto that even the police try to avoid. I am sure that in these especially crime ridden areas, the violent crime rate is comparable to major US cities.

However, the more depressing aspect is, even if Canada is currently safer than the US, major crime in Canada is spiking at a rate that within five years, you could rename MacLeod Trail "8 Mile".

Actually crime rates are decreasing across the country. Crime rates have been slowly decreasing since the peak in the early nineties. The only rate that has seen an increase in Calgary is murders. And even with the increased rate there are still over 70 cities in the USA that have a higher rate.

Detroit in 2008 (a city of under 900,000) had more murders in 2008 then all of Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Toronto and Montreal combined. You can even throw in Quebec City in there (then again they did have 0 murders last year).

As for you argument about the bad areas being just as bad as the USA. In order to get a murder rate like those found in Detroit, Baltimore and St. Louis; Every murder that occurred in Vancouver would have to have occurred in the Hastings/Downtown area. And those are the average rates for those US cities, not even their worst areas.

[Dan02]

wowza Detriot had 344 murders last year! 396 in 07.

[HotHotHeat]

So can we shift to the gun control debate yet?

[bcb]

Responding to Bobblehead:

"Where did the "Sarnia is Canada's worse slum" come from? Is that a Michael Moore thing?"

In Moore's movie "Bowling for Columbine", Moore visited several Canadian "slums", small towns in southern Ontario, of which Sarnia was one, I believe. The point is, he neglected to visit the crime ridden parts of large cities, which skewed his logic.

"Canada with a superiority/inferiority/snob complex? Covering all the bases there, aren't you."

Superiority: "Canada is better than the US"
Inferiority: "Unlike the US, we have no national identity or cohesion, so we'll just put down the US"
Snob: "Canada cannot possible have a crime rate similar to the US, we're too good for that"

"Would you care to provide any proof of your claim about the parts of those Canadian cities and their crime rates, or are we just supposed to accept it as true?"

You're right, I didn't look at any peer-reviewed sources to quantitatively prove my point; however, several newspaper columns over the past year have referenced the fact that our violent crime rate (in parts of major cities) is increasing.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I think there is a misconception of 'safety' in Calgary, in the sense that these gang shootings, although taking place in public places, are usually targeted (and most of the time successfully) at other gang members. It doesn't look to be a problem in Calgary (at least from me as an average Calgarian) where citizens are being targeted.

Tell that to the student from Brazil who is now blind. If memory serves (and it doesn't always) that bullet was intended for a gang target.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Tell that to the student from Brazil who is now blind. If memory serves (and it doesn't always) that bullet was intended for a gang target.

And that is why I didn't use definitive words. The man who unfortunately lost his eyesight was one of those few...FEW times that something like that has happened.

I never said people are immune from gang violence; but my point was that gangs target gangs, and 99.9% of the violence is kept between them.

EDIT: The man who lost his eyesight was not a victim of gang violence; at least not proven. It appears to be from a drug deal gone bad, and drugs can encompass a whole lot more people than the gang community.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

And that is why I didn't use definitive words. The man who unfortunately lost his eyesight was one of those few...FEW times that something like that has happened.

I never said people are immune from gang violence; but my point was that gangs target gangs, and 99.9% of the violence is kept between them.

EDIT: The man who lost his eyesight was not a victim of gang violence; at least not proven. It appears to be from a drug deal gone bad, and drugs can encompass a whole lot more people than the gang community.

Fair enough but even one innocent victim is far too many. The more bullets are flying around in broad daylight or on busy streets the higher the chances of someone else getting dinged.

For instnce a few weeks back there was a driveby on the Deerfoot over the calf robe. VERY dangerous for the general public.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by fotze

Google is too funny. They released the name (Northwind Hart) of the suspect in the bar death.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/Police+...377/story.html

Decided googling the name because it is pretty unique and found this:

http://www.mail-archive.com/nativene.../msg03187.html

Northwind Hart, 22, is serving a six-year sentence for break and enter
offences. Now a member of the Circle Strong Singers drum group, he admits
he turned his back on the teachings. "I grew up with it, but turned the
other cheek," said Hart. Inmates get younger "If I hadn't, I wouldn't have
been drinking and doing the other crap and I'd still be on the outside."
Native Brotherhood leader Richard Paul -- a Stony Mountain resident for
most of the past 16 years -- urged the younger inmates to make use of the
facility. "The inmate population keeps getting younger and younger. Maybe
this will give a start to the young guys. I hope they will take advantage
of the facility."

Looks like you didn't turn the other cheek, Mr. Hart.

And further to it...Northwind Hart has been charged....

http://www.gov.calgary.ab.ca/citybea...114006_12382_0

Police have charged Northwind HART, 32, of no fixed address,
with second-degree murder. Another man is in custody and
charges are being considered.

HART is scheduled to appear in Calgary Provincial Court on
Jan. 14, 2009.

[HelloHockeyFans]

Originally Posted by Vancouver Sun

Authorities have not disclosed the names of the three men killed inside the Bolsa Restaurant, but sources confirmed Sanjeev Mann, a member of the FOB Killers gang, was among the victims.

Link

[Winsor_Pilates]

Turns out I knew one of the victims from the tripple murder. Didn't know him well, but had some mutual friends back in my high school days and my family has known has family for a very long time. We even have some mutual relatives.

Can't say I'm surprised, as I knew he was involved with this sort of stuff, but having known his parents, uncles, aunts and cousins, I feel bad for all of them.

edit: yup, that's him^^

[OzSome]

I was shocked to hear the shooting at Bolsa Vietnamese Restaurant yesterday. I go there a lot and the food was not food but I do get along with the owners. I was so bored at home yesterday(New Years) and I was going to take my 2 nephews to eat there yesterday afternoon after 3pm but decided to go to Chinook Mall instead and walk around. Imagine if I didn't change my mind to go to Chinook Mall, we could have witnessed that tragic event, or something bad could have happen. I didn't want my young nephews or I witness that trafic event. It makes me sick to my stomach that even that place where I think was so quiet and safer, something terrible still happenned. Is there any more safe place in Calgary these days?
I feel sorry for those couple who own that restaurant. I am sure people will shy away from going to that place. I know I would for awhile and if I ever go back, I won't be comfortable sitting and eating at that place. In the back of my head, I will always think of that incident.

[OzSome]

Originally Posted by flameswin

I believe the first thing the goverment should do is implement restrictions on when and where murders can take place, and if things are still out of control they should just outright ban them from public places.

Our justice system should change. Just recently they have to let a gang member go home for some stupic reason. Also, the media should stop mentioning "Fresh of the Boat" or "FOB Killers'. For those gang members they tend to enjoy seeing their name on the papers or TV and think they should keep killing other members of the rival gang.

I don't care if those gangs kill each other as long as us innocent citizens of this city doesn't get affected. Too bad the government can't send them both in one island where they can shoot each other until the last man standing.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by bcb

This is typical Michael Moore logic (Sarnia is Canada's worst slum) coupled with Canadians' superiority/inferiority/snob complex.

The fact is, there are parts of Vancouver, Regina, Winnipeg and Toronto that even the police try to avoid. I am sure that in these especially crime ridden areas, the violent crime rate is comparable to major US cities.

However, the more depressing aspect is, even if Canada is currently safer than the US, major crime in Canada is spiking at a rate that within five years, you could rename MacLeod Trail "8 Mile".

I'm glad that you talk about Vancouver, Regina, Winnipeg and Toronto when I CLEARLY stated Calgary.

You can try to tie my statement to Michael Moore (for some deranged reason) but the fact stands. People who talk about how bad Calgary is and talk about not feeling safe and wanting to move have poor perspective on major cities.

Also, a serious "lol" at naming MacLeod 8 Mile. Have you ever been to Detroit? Seriously, have you? I'm guessing no, because I have, and anyone who has would never compare Detroit to Calgary.

Originally Posted by bcb

[/B]You're right, I didn't look at any peer-reviewed sources to quantitatively prove my point; however, several newspaper columns over the past year have referenced the fact that our violent crime rate (in parts of major cities) is increasing.

Since you won't do any research, I'll post something for you to try and wrap the "snob/inferiority complex" answer around.

Year end totals of North American cities compiled from FBI numbers from another board I visit.



Please find me the Major US center with numbers comparable to Calgary. I'll save you time, it's Austin. You can call it snobbery, I'll call it fact.

Even though the murder number has increased over the last few years, the Murder rate for Calgary is still INSANELY low. People need to calm down.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The scary thing is how brazen these are becoming - this was a triple murder executed in broad daylight just off one of the busiest streets in Calgary. Its' only a matter of time until someone innocent gets killed. We already had that one young man from Brazil lose his eye sight.

It's scary. I just ate at that restaurant with my pregnant wife a few weeks before Xmas. Enough is enough.

[bcb]

Originally Posted by nik-

I'm glad that you talk about Vancouver, Regina, Winnipeg and Toronto when I CLEARLY stated Calgary.

You can try to tie my statement to Michael Moore (for some deranged reason) but the fact stands. People who talk about how bad Calgary is and talk about not feeling safe and wanting to move have poor perspective on major cities.

Also, a serious "lol" at naming MacLeod 8 Mile. Have you ever been to Detroit? Seriously, have you? I'm guessing no, because I have, and anyone who has would never compare Detroit to Calgary.



Since you won't do any research, I'll post something for you to try and wrap the "snob/inferiority complex" answer around.

Year end totals of North American cities compiled from FBI numbers from another board I visit.



Please find me the Major US center with numbers comparable to Calgary. I'll save you time, it's Austin. You can call it snobbery, I'll call it fact.

Even though the murder number has increased over the last few years, the Murder rate for Calgary is still INSANELY low. People need to calm down.

I think you need to calm down

And for that matter, the murder rate is still low, but that's only until a friend or relative becomes one of the statistics you so tactfully threw in my face.

PS, I was talking about violent crime, not just murders.

[bcb]

"Please find me the Major US center with numbers comparable to Calgary. I'll save you time, it's Austin. You can call it snobbery, I'll call it fact."

And yes, I guess these numbers prove that Calgary is statistically safer than US cities (in terms of homicide) but if gang murders continues to escalate and occur in more public areas and if our law enforcement is unable to detain violent criminals, what will this city look like in 10 years' time?

The fact is, we must act now, before we have the problem Detroit has. We cannot simply say that because we're in Canada, we'll never become like the States.

[Rifleman]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

No, it is just north of Rona on Macleod. Shares the same parking spot as the Regal Beagal.

Isn't that Bagalac? Did they change names?