Smoking laws coming into effect Jan. 1

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by transplant99

No question...but who is advocating smoking around you? Im certainly not...no one is.




Is ANYONE saying it is?

Love ya man...but that post is just odd.

Im talking about something inherently different than forcing tobacco on anyone.

Now I didnt say you advocated it my friend....but smokers rights groups think its ok. Smokers have no rights to force their smoke on anyone but themselves...hence a need to ban it from any public location. Thats what I was saying, which isnt that odd considering its being done in most of the free world.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

This is such a straw-man argument it's absurd.

Honestly, this is basically the goverment stepping in and saying people aren't responsible enough to make their own decisions. Ergo, they take mind bogglingly stupid measures to ensure we, as consumers, aren't ensnared by the HORRORS OF TOBACCO.

I would argue that teens and children who take up smoking aren't making informed descions. More to the point how many adults would start smoking if they got past thier teens and the peer pressure asscoiated with smoking?

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Teenagers who underestimate the risks of smoking -- or overestimate the social value -- are substantially more likely than their peers to take up the habit, a new study suggests.

Researchers found that among 395 high school students they followed for two years, those who thought the health risks of smoking were fairly low, or the social benefits fairly high, were about three times more likely than their peers to start smoking.

The fact that these perceptions influence teenagers' likelihood of smoking makes sense, but until now it hadn't been clear whether this was the case.

"This is the first paper that really shows that perceptions truly predict behavior," senior researcher Dr. Bonnie L. Halpern-Felsher told Reuters Health.

http://www.reuters.com/article/healt...4BU3NS20081231

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Nope...but I do have horrible asthma around cig smoke. Both of my parents are dead of lung cancer and my sister is well on her way as well. Whats your point?

So are you blaming these unfortunate happenings on smoking/second hand smoke?


On a earlier mentioned note about Salt and fast food in moderation wont kill you..

Cigarettes in moderation wont necessarily kill you either. If you have one cigarette a month when out for a drink, socially. Will that kill you any faster than eating junk food?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

So are you blaming these unfortunate happenings on smoking/second hand smoke?


On a earlier mentioned note about Salt and fast food in moderation wont kill you..

Cigarettes in moderation wont necessarily kill you either. If you have one cigarette a month when out for a drink, socially. Will that kill you any faster than eating junk food?

I have yet to meet someone who smokes 1 cigarette a month. Due to the highly addictive nature of nicotine i highly doubt that's possible. Add to the fact that evey cigarette you smoke does irreversable damage to your lungs.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Now I didnt say you advocated it my friend....but smokers rights groups think its ok. Smokers have no rights to force their smoke on anyone but themselves...hence a need to ban it from any public location. Thats what I was saying, which isnt that odd considering its being done in most of the free world.

I am NOT advocatingt anyone force anything on you...i have no problem with the "cant smoke in public" stuff as a matter of fact. but the "most of the free world" thing may be a stretch....looking at Europe though i may be wrong.

I am talking about the double standards between alcohol enforcement and tobacco enforcement as they are both health hazrads and are both controlled by the sam government.

Again,....why no pictures of cirhossis of the liver on liquor bottles etc.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I am NOT advocatingt anyone force anything on you...i have no problem with the "cant smoke in public" stuff as a matter of fact. but the "most of the free world" thing may be a stretch....looking at Europe though i may be wrong.

I am talking about the double standards between alcohol enforcement and tobacco enforcement as they are both health hazrads and are both controlled by the sam government.

Again,....why no pictures of cirhossis of the liver on liquor bottles etc.

In time Grasshopper...in time. Win one battle at a time! LOL
Again though...you drinking does not cause others discomfort unless you are beligerent. A beligerent drunk is nothing to fear.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by fotze

You want to extend the period of life when you are bitter, your balls don't work anymore, you become racist?

Ill let you know as soon as Im bitter and my balls dont work LOL.

[Antithesis]

Hey, you can put me in the group that thinks that smoking is easily one of the stupidest things someone can do. That being said, this law is also one of the stupidest things I have read. It will have no net effect on smoking rates, and yet, as said earlier, it hurts businesses.

You can't make smoking illegal. As has been pointed out earlier, look at how prohibition 'worked'. I believe that the path we are on is a great one - increase the price of smokes to -about- the point they are at now if not a bit higher. That seems to work pretty well ... even if people don't smoke, it benefits the tax system.

While I don't use cigarettes or pot, and think it's silly to use either, I'd also advocate legalizing marijuana and selling/controlling it in much the same way that cigarettes are sold. The benefits, to me, are enormous. Yes, I know I'd be talking out the other side of my face if some stoned driver smoked me with his/her car. I also know that people looking to buy this stuff wouldn't have to turn to a dealer.

You could even sell them under the brand 'Weedies'. Think of the possibilities!

[flip]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Oh the irony.

Really? Comparing other valid health concerns to cigarettes is ironic how? The other poster compared cigarettes to child porn, I compared them to other things that cause a burden on the health care system.

Good try though...FAIL!

[Traditional_Ale]

I haven't purchased a pack of cigarettes in literally two years now. I cannot, however, say I don't smoke. That to me is good evidence of how insideous tobacco products really are. While I am not addicted anymore, and do not crave (in the morning, on the sh***er, after meals, working on music), the pleasure of a cig while having drinks "in the moment" is like a craving all on its own. Sometimes I don't even noticed I had one, and other times I get a head-rush and wonder why I even did it. But there I am again next week, three beers in and looking to bum a smoke. Weird hey?

Anyway, I agree totally with the removal of power-walls where minors can see them. I remember being in Jr. High and being able to recite all the brands, colors, and strengths, although I didn't even smoke then!

What is crap is how the tobacconists were made to black out their humadors! Make an opaque "store front" much like a porn-store and ID people who come in. Even the Sheffield and Sons in Chinook Mall could do this. Frankly, if I'm shelling out $20 for a cigar I want to look at it and compare it visually (as well as smell and touch) to the others in the store.

Lastly, regarding weed...

I think its suprising how many smokers will trash on weed because "its worse for you."

When a stoner decides to quit smoking weed, they go through a one or two-day withdrawl of sorts and then are totally fine. Its good to take breaks from smoking weed too, to bring your tolerance down and enhance the effects!

When a smoker decides to quit, it is literally months before they even begin to feel human again. And quitting to enhance the effects of cigarettes means you like head-rushes and dizziness which makes no sense at all.

People will always do things that are self-depricating and respecting the opporotunity and ability to choose rather than the choice itself are what I think is important.

Originally Posted by flip

Really? Comparing other valid health concerns to cigarettes is ironic how? The other poster compared cigarettes to child porn, I compared them to other things that cause a burden on the health care system.

Good try though...FAIL!

Ok friend.... if you can't see the ridciulousness of comparing smoking to snowmobiles or chocolate bars, I can't help you.

The comment was more directed at the "shock value" and "little reason" that you have pointed out.

Although it matters little, an obese person eating a chocolate bar may or may not be a valid health concern. There was no direct reference to child porn and cigs. Reread that post.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Ok friend.... if you can't see the ridciulousness of comparing smoking to snowmobiles or chocolate bars, I can't help you.

The comment was more directed at the "shock value" and "little reason" that you have pointed out.

Although it matters little, an obese person eating a chocolate bar may or may not be a valid health concern. There was no direct reference to child porn and cigs. Reread that post.

you're right, it does seems absurd to use the exact same logic you are using against cigarettes. why would that be?

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Nope...but I do have horrible asthma around cig smoke. Both of my parents are dead of lung cancer and my sister is well on her way as well. Whats your point?

your previous argument was in your 52 years drunk drivers havent killed you, my point is clearly 2nd hand smoke hasnt killed you either so I dont understand your i'm 52 and never been affected by drunk driver argument.

[ricosuave]

As far as "choices" go, I doubt very much that anyone who smokes, or ever smoked, did so because they consciously made a choice to do so because it was their right.

I think that it is hilarious that so-called educated and informed people in this day and age, still try to justify smoking as anything other than a negative thing. Yes, there are lots of other bad things in the world too, but this one has absolutely no benefit, and harms others just by being in proximity.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Locke

Fascist Swine. Who came up with these rules? Was it Jorje? I bet it was.

Fixed!

[stang]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'm all for it. I'm somewhat interested in knowing who the Ninjas on CP are though.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

As far as "choices" go, I doubt very much that anyone who smokes, or ever smoked, did so because they consciously made a choice to do so because it was their right.

I think that it is hilarious that so-called educated and informed people in this day and age, still try to justify smoking as anything other than a negative thing. Yes, there are lots of other bad things in the world too, but this one has absolutely no benefit, and harms others just by being in proximity.

someone against drinking could make that very same argument. Or vegetarians against meat-eaters. thankfully we live in a world that allows people the freedom to kill themselves however they want.

there are a great many things we do with no benefit. smoking has just as much benefit to those who enjoy it as any other thing you do. and as pointed out over and over again if you dont want to be around it you dont have to. there is no more smoking in public places and before people complain about having to walk past 3 or 4 smokers outside a building and it stinks well we should ban diesel trucks first then 'cuz they stink up the road driving by much more than smokers ever have.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Swarly

someone against drinking could make that very same argument. Or vegetarians against meat-eaters. thankfully we live in a world that allows people the freedom to kill themselves however they want.

there are a great many things we do with no benefit. smoking has just as much benefit to those who enjoy it as any other thing you do. and as pointed out over and over again if you dont want to be around it you dont have to. there is no more smoking in public places and before people complain about having to walk past 3 or 4 smokers outside a building and it stinks well we should ban diesel trucks first then 'cuz they stink up the road driving by much more than smokers ever have.

From the Mayo Clinic.....

Various studies have indicated that moderate amounts of all types of alcohol benefit your heart, not just alcohol found in red wine. Some heart-healthy benefits of alcohol include:

• Raises high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol, the "good" cholesterol
• Inhibits the formation of blood clots
• Helps prevent artery damage caused by high levels of low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol, the "bad" cholesterol

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/red-wine/HB00089

[flip]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

As far as "choices" go, I doubt very much that anyone who smokes, or ever smoked, did so because they consciously made a choice to do so because it was their right.

I think that it is hilarious that so-called educated and informed people in this day and age, still try to justify smoking as anything other than a negative thing. Yes, there are lots of other bad things in the world too, but this one has absolutely no benefit, and harms others just by being in proximity.

Originally Posted by Dion

From the Mayo Clinic.....

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/red-wine/HB00089

Still neither of you have considered that casual, or social smoking is relatively harmless and that this still doesn't cover why others shouldn't be able to smoke.

Sorry but health care aside, which has been extensively covered in this thread, there is absolutely no reason to not let people smoke. Again, remember we have already covered the fact that in today's society no one ever gets forced to inhale second hand smoke except in unfortunate situations that youths are forced to inhale their moron parents smoke, which has also been covered. (parents fault, not cigs)

At least they kill themselves, drunk drivers kill other people.

Everyone can admit smoking is bad. You can't argue that anymore. And other similar activities in dangerousness or of near equal vice like gambling and alcohol aren't quite as bad in some ways. That being said anything in moderation is ok. Sure most smokers can't do that because they are addicted, but why can't they be addicted? Does it impact you in any way? (once again, other than health care, this has been extensively covered, as has second hand smoke)

So if you aren't harmed by the second hand smoke and the health care costs aren't any worse than other dangerous activities. That leaves you with what exactly? It makes me safer. BS. I could care less if you want me to be safe. If I want to live life to the fullest and burnout before I get old that is my decision. Unless I am physically harming others you have absolutely no reason to tell me I can't smoke.

Now excuse me but I've been drinking and would like a smoke to even me out, because smoking, as most people know does have a calming effect.

[rubecube]

I love all the people claiming that cigarettes and booze should be illegal. There was a specific post that really caught my eye ("Police forces would be cut in half if booze were illegal"), but it was from fotze so I didn't take it seriously. Do people honestly believe this? Yes, prohibition was a very lovely time for North America with no need for police at all.