Smoking laws coming into effect Jan. 1

[boobaloo]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

Non-smoker here..

Has that ever actually happened? Is there concrete evidence of this. If you look at the actual research. There is actually very little evidence that second hand smoke is nearly as bad as suggested.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...y-cause-cancer

There's actually an entertaining episode of Penn and Teller's bull#$% on the topic of second hand smoke.

Unless you are in an environment where you constantly breathing in second hand smoke, its likely to have little effect on you at all. You do realize that once someone stops smoking their lungs begin to repair themselves, and will eventually go back to being a nice pink. So, sorry your 5 seconds of second smoke will do little. Add to that, the only place now where you will be exposed to second hand smoke is OUTSIDE, where, unless you are standing directly next to the cigarette you'll be breathing in very little smoke anyways. Its a ridiculous argument.

If all of you non-smokers are so concerned with second hand smoke how come I don't hear you protesting large diesel trucks and suv's driving around. Surely all the pollution they create has dramatic health effects from the chemicals they put out...

Its sad to me that the government cannot dream of giving up the money it makes off of cigarettes, but is trying to keep the appearance that they want people to stop smoking. They do not, if they did, smoking would be illegal. Its not.

I just can't wait to live in a world where everything is covered in a nerf like coating, cars can't go over 50 km/hr, the only food and drinks available are made from wheatgrass, and everybody stands around holding hands singing kumbayah.

Once again, I don't drink too much (at least these days), I don't smoke, I just think the whining about smoking has gotten annoying.

Well, as a Respiratory Therapist for longer than lots of you have been alive, I can assure you that second hand smoke is one of worst things possible. I have the largest bag over my head for smoking for 16 years. Back when I trained, everyone smoked. We used to joke about how it was like being a parent....do as I say, not as I do.

Rather than go somewhere such as straightdope.com to get medical information, perhaps looking at a place like the Mayo Clinic which is world renowned for it's medical care might give you a little insight on second hand smoke. Oh, and here's the link.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sec...-smoke/CC00023

And no, I am not being arrogant etc etc etc. I can't tell you how many people I've had to comfort and try and ease their breathing while they were dying from the effects of cigarette smoke. I can't tell you how many hands I've held of people who were dying of second hand smoke. If only smokers REALLY knew what happens when you get COPD from smoking and breathing other's smoke....you have NO idea....it is among the most unpleasant ways to die. And yes, I've had people die on me in pretty much every way imaginable.

Your lungs do not heal themselves once you stop smoking. They regain SOME of their "pinkness" but not all. We have special cameras called bronchoscopes we use to look at people's lungs, and I can assure you that it's easy to tell the ones that have smoked....long after quitting. It's not just about the color.

Diesel trucks, SUV's etc...they are a problem, too, without a doubt. But nothing is as deliberate as taking that cigarette and lighting it. It's a brutal way to kill yourself. And for the poster that said that smokers shouldn't have to pay for health care because the don't live as long....you are wrong, my friend....Emphysema can torture you for years and years....wasting your body away slowly as you gasp for every breath....

Anyone that thinks that smoking should not be illegal is either ignorant or just not listening. The true facts are out there. Quit sticking your head in the sand.

[Shin Pad]

I am a non-smoker, but I don't mind that smokers are paying huge taxes to support their habits. Now, the only other thing that needs to be done is that smokers need pay extra premiums for their Alberta Health Insurance. To hell if I want pay for them costing our health care system huge amounts of money because they want to smoke. BTW - the same thing should go for people who drink. Also, they should do blood tests on everyone to see if they are drug users - if they are - higher premiums for you. Better yet, take the lot of them out and shoot them..... Where does it end.


Really though, cigarettes are highly taxed now, smokers are limited to clustering out in a cold alley to smoke, how much more can they do to make it miserable enough for them to stop smoking. If people still smoke after all the warnings, health concerns, smoking bans and all the rest - then let them have at it. I'm just happy to be able to go out to places these days and not have to breath second hand smoke. That's good enough for me.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

If all of you non-smokers are so concerned with second hand smoke how come I don't hear you protesting large diesel trucks and suv's driving around. Surely all the pollution they create has dramatic health effects from the chemicals they put out...

This is so right on. Am I really to believe that burning part of a tobacco leaf outdoors is worse than hundreds of thousands of people burning litres of gasoline?

The amount of material and smoke produced from a cigarette is so comparably minimal its ridiculous. Just because you can't see or smell exhaust to the same extent of cigarette smoke does not make it any better for you.

I supported the ban in bars, due to the restaurant staff being constantly exposed. Other regulations have become nothing but a violation of people's civil liberties.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by MJK

Why are you ignoring the "second hand smoke" argument? I will say it again:

I can choose to avoid alcohol, Motorbikes, Snowmobiles, Fast cars, AND Fast food.

I cant avoid second hand smoke.

You can avoid fast food, but you can't avoid alcohol, motorbikes and fast cars. The 'second-hand drunk' is a bigger risk to you than the occasional whiff of smoke you get near the entrance to a public building.

As for the people lighting up right outside the Saddledome -- my guess is that walking through a parking lot full of 3000 idling cars is worse for you than the guy ahead of you smoking a cigarette.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by Dion

Nothing stopping Shoppers from getting out of the pharmacy business and selling smokes instead.

so because of this they either have to stop the pharmacy, large % of profit, or selling smokes, i'm guessing a nearly equal % profit.

I really do hope some places shut down the pharmacy part, I'd love to see the situation reversed. see the public outcry and the store simply saying we cant have a pharmacy in a place that sells smokes.

I think this will hurt places like shoppers more than you think and wouldnt be surprised if they shut down the pharmacy. I dont see anyone going grocery shopping there. Most of that stuff is only sold if someone is in shoppers anyway for a pack of smokes or picking up prescriptions. If you are in desparate need of milk or eggs then there are countless more macs and 7/11s around that are much more convienient. So either way they are going to see a huge hit to their bottom line.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Swarly

so because of this they either have to stop the pharmacy, large % of profit, or selling smokes, i'm guessing a nearly equal % profit.

You'd be wrong. Smokes are an item to get people into the stores. Very little profit is actually made on them by the retailers.

Pharm is a much greater money maker than smokes are. Bar none.

Originally Posted by Swarly

so because of this they either have to stop the pharmacy, large % of profit, or selling smokes, i'm guessing a nearly equal % profit.

I really do hope some places shut down the pharmacy part, I'd love to see the situation reversed. see the public outcry and the store simply saying we cant have a pharmacy in a place that sells smokes.

I think this will hurt places like shoppers more than you think and wouldnt be surprised if they shut down the pharmacy. I dont see anyone going grocery shopping there. Most of that stuff is only sold if someone is in shoppers anyway for a pack of smokes or picking up prescriptions. If you are in desparate need of milk or eggs then there are countless more macs and 7/11s around that are much more convienient. So either way they are going to see a huge hit to their bottom line.

People argued that banning smoking in bars would wipe out hundreds of bars...well, they haven't. The local place down the street which cried foul because of the VLT traffic that came into to veg and smoke and play VLT's at 11am on a Tuesday, is still around and still making money.

Shoppers Drug Mart may have too have to adjust to become more then a smoke shop for those who use it as such, but given the diversity of product that they now carry, I'd be surprised if cig sales were its lifeline (no pun intended). Without knowing a lot about the pharmacy side of things, given the price on drugs and perscriptions, eased by the factor that health plans cover the cost of most perscriptions, the markup is are pretty significant. And, those markups I am thinking are a bigger percentage then go into Shoppers coffers then the percentage that they get from every pack of cig sales.

[Claeren]

Ah, the old 'cars pollute the air too' argument!


The problem with that argument is that like smokers, auto-pollution has ALSO been under the microscope. Due to a myriad of new regulations over the past 30 years they are continuously held to a higher and higher standard for fuel economy, pollution, safety and life cycle recycling.


A modern car is now one of the most recycled things on earth, I do not have the actual percentage but basically everything other than the battery acid is now recycled. For all I know that is recycled too!

The average fuel economy, despite bad press with SUVs, has gone up dramatically -- without even mentioning the electric cars, hybrids, hydrogen cars, etc all on the horizon (or already here).

Safety standards in all aspects of the auto industry/manufacturing have gone up dramatically with cars being virtually 'safety obsolete' within a few short years due to ever increasing standards and safety performance.

And the difference in pollution out of a car tailpipe from the late 1970's until now (a human generation) has been shockingly reduced, from what I understand to a factor of 100 or (much) more, with the next generation of cars giving off so little pollution it is increasingly hard to even measure.




So yeah, smokers ARE just like autos, lots of rules with more rules every year and higher and higher consumer/government standards with each passing year.




Get used to it!




Claeren.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by boobaloo

Well, as a Respiratory Therapist for longer than lots of you have been alive, I can assure you that second hand smoke is one of worst things possible. I have the largest bag over my head for smoking for 16 years. Back when I trained, everyone smoked. We used to joke about how it was like being a parent....do as I say, not as I do.

Rather than go somewhere such as straightdope.com to get medical information, perhaps looking at a place like the Mayo Clinic which is world renowned for it's medical care might give you a little insight on second hand smoke. Oh, and here's the link.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sec...-smoke/CC00023

And no, I am not being arrogant etc etc etc. I can't tell you how many people I've had to comfort and try and ease their breathing while they were dying from the effects of cigarette smoke. I can't tell you how many hands I've held of people who were dying of second hand smoke. If only smokers REALLY knew what happens when you get COPD from smoking and breathing other's smoke....you have NO idea....it is among the most unpleasant ways to die. And yes, I've had people die on me in pretty much every way imaginable.

Your lungs do not heal themselves once you stop smoking. They regain SOME of their "pinkness" but not all. We have special cameras called bronchoscopes we use to look at people's lungs, and I can assure you that it's easy to tell the ones that have smoked....long after quitting. It's not just about the color.

Diesel trucks, SUV's etc...they are a problem, too, without a doubt. But nothing is as deliberate as taking that cigarette and lighting it. It's a brutal way to kill yourself. And for the poster that said that smokers shouldn't have to pay for health care because the don't live as long....you are wrong, my friend....Emphysema can torture you for years and years....wasting your body away slowly as you gasp for every breath....

Anyone that thinks that smoking should not be illegal is either ignorant or just not listening. The true facts are out there. Quit sticking your head in the sand.

I logged in just to Quote for Thanks.

What a great post. As an authority, how to weed and tobacco compare?

[PYroMaNiaC]

Originally Posted by Swarly

so because of this they either have to stop the pharmacy, large % of profit, or selling smokes, i'm guessing a nearly equal % profit.

There is no margin at all in cigarettes. At the highest, maybe 5% mark-up. Pharmacies use cigarettes as a draw.

[Bobblehead]

I wonder what would happen if cigarettes were attempted to be introduced and sold as a product today?

Hey everybody, I have a product with no benefits, prolonged use kills the users; and to top it all off, I'll make it addictive.

Really folks, do those of you who smoke REALLY have a choice?

At one point you did, when you first took those puffs, but today, as a smoker, do you have a choice? Most smokers I know would like to quit, they don't have the will power. They didn't want to be outside when it was -30 earlier in the month, but they were. Numerous times every day they went outside. I'm not really sure smoking is a choice for those people anymore.

So it is a product with no benefits, lots of costs, and is addictive so isn't really a choice. I can't see an product ever having the slightest chance of appearing on the market with those characteristics.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Swarly

so because of this they either have to stop the pharmacy, large % of profit, or selling smokes, i'm guessing a nearly equal % profit.

I really do hope some places shut down the pharmacy part, I'd love to see the situation reversed. see the public outcry and the store simply saying we cant have a pharmacy in a place that sells smokes.

I think this will hurt places like shoppers more than you think and wouldnt be surprised if they shut down the pharmacy. I dont see anyone going grocery shopping there. Most of that stuff is only sold if someone is in shoppers anyway for a pack of smokes or picking up prescriptions. If you are in desparate need of milk or eggs then there are countless more macs and 7/11s around that are much more convienient. So either way they are going to see a huge hit to their bottom line.

I'm hoping that none of these places shut down thier pharmacies. Just to see the outcry from smokers as they won't be able to buy thier cigs. And it's not as if they don't have enough places to buy thier smokes already. Too bad so sad.

Will it hurt them? There's the sales of cosmetics, non prescription drugs, greeting cards, magazines, etc. I think they are well diversified in the products and that the loss of cigarette sales wouldn't hurt them as much as you think.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Swarly

so because of this they either have to stop the pharmacy, large % of profit, or selling smokes, i'm guessing a nearly equal % profit.

I really do hope some places shut down the pharmacy part, I'd love to see the situation reversed. see the public outcry and the store simply saying we cant have a pharmacy in a place that sells smokes.

I think this will hurt places like shoppers more than you think and wouldnt be surprised if they shut down the pharmacy. I dont see anyone going grocery shopping there. Most of that stuff is only sold if someone is in shoppers anyway for a pack of smokes or picking up prescriptions. If you are in desparate need of milk or eggs then there are countless more macs and 7/11s around that are much more convienient. So either way they are going to see a huge hit to their bottom line.

In Canada retailers make between 18 and 50 cents per carton.

[Ch40s]

Originally Posted by flip

Things that I hate:

Wow, and there were complaints about self-righteous non-smokers, but not one word about the self-righteous and irrational smokers?

Originally Posted by flip

anyone who works for a company that forces their employees to chart their physical activity on a board for all customers to see so that they can compare and shame the non healthy people.

Anyone who does yoga, anyone who recycles everything, wears their seatbelt all the time, doesn't ever make bad decisions like smoke or do drugs. Anyone who excercises constantly but hates it, anyone who drinks light beer because regular beer has too many carbs, anyone who counts calories, or skips the Cinzeo at the mall because they'll feel guilty, skips desert or office chocalates because they're concerned about their figure.

So basically you hate things that make people live long, healthy lives. I'm sure you're totally exempt from doing things that make you feel good about yourself. If that were true, you'd be engaging in purely utalitarian activities and you'd buy your clothes from Value Village and wear a pocket protector. Do you?

Originally Posted by flip

that their worldly views should be inflicted upon me just so they can feel better about making me safe

I assure you, I don't give a crap about making you safe. I care about all those people who do not engage in harmful behaviors yet are affected negatively, or perhaps even killed by people like you choosing to "do things in moderation". It's quite the coincidence that this thread appears right after a DUI one. Hey, I've only had a couple drinks, I'm ok to drive, I'll just do it this once! Everything in moderation, right?

Smoking affects those around you, I can assure you. I know many people who smoke and their kids have grown up to do the same. Making it illegal may help many stop smoking or not start to begin with. Doing nothing? Well, that does nothing.

Most people smoke because they are addicted. It really does come down to that for most. Like was mentioned before me, people hate spending money and braving the weather, etc, to light one up. All the effort to do what? Get lung cancer? Is it enjoyable to you to suck on some chemical crap wrapped in paper? I don't get it.

Please try to justify smoking to me. Why do you do it? There's no buzz, no short or long term gain, only loss. Why?

At least making it illegal will be some deterrent, and I'm sure many people, mainly smokers, will benefit. The final piece of the puzzle to quit, or to ensure their children never start. Of course people will still do it, but at least the effect on the rest of us will be minimal.

[bcb]

Where the heck is my Nanny!!! Doesn't she know that the time spent reading this thread could have been better used producing more iron nails for the Workers and Politburo? We need laws maximizing how much time I can spend on the internet!!!

To quote a tee shirt:
The Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a convenience store, not a government agency.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Claeren

Ah, the old 'cars pollute the air too' argument!

Yeah, but it's true. So should cars be illegal? I mean if air pollution is the big problem with cigarettes, doesn't it stand to reason...

I smoke the odd cigarette and really, I don't care about the regulations. I didn't even know about these new rules until I saw it on the news tonight. I can't buy smokes at Shopper's anymore? Okay, I'll go to Mac's, or the gas station. Big deal.

I do find it a little strange that people get so uppity about having to suffer the indignity of getting the occasional whiff of cigarette smoke. Our entire society and infrastructure is built to accomodate machines that do a lot more harm to the air and environment than cigarettes do.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by flip

Ok, then unhealthy food.

I gurantee that health risks associated with poor diet are now FAR outweighing the burden of smokers, and if it isn't now it will be soon because the number of smokers has plumetted but unhealthy people have increased exponentially.

I think those two demographics overlap greatly. I also know that both behaviors impact and perpetuate the negative effects of the other.

[habernac]

The toughest fight of my life was quitting smoking. Anything that makes it harder for people to buy this crap is ok in my books.

[4X4]

Bit of a drama queen, eh MJK? You make it sound like people are knocking you to the ground and giving you mouth-to-mouth with cigarette filled lungs. Lol. Keep fighting the good fight, buddy.

As for these restrictions, I give it a 'meh'. I smoke. Go ahead and make it harder for me to buy them. Fine by me. I actually like smoke free restaurants and pubs. At first I thought it sucked, but I actually really like it. Smoking should be done outside. But as far as where to buy 'em, this particular law just sounds stupid to me. I highly doubt it'll be much of a deterrant for 99% of smokers. There is a convenience store on every corner, so how does this change anything except that it kinda takes a chop at drug stores. I guess I wont be stopping at shoppers anymore. Guess all my cigs and gum will be purchased at macs. What the hell do I care? It's the businesses that are getting the shaft.

[Ch40s]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I do find it a little strange that people get so uppity about having to suffer the indignity of getting the occasional whiff of cigarette smoke. Our entire society and infrastructure is built to accomodate machines that do a lot more harm to the air and environment than cigarettes do.

Do you really think that's the only issue? I assure you if it were that simple, it would not be brought up as an argument.

Smoking is one of the worst lifestyle habits you can have. It is absolutely aweful for your health, and I don't need to sit here and type out all of the bad effects, since they're well documented.

Continuing on the note, I do not want me, nor any member of my family or any of my friends to suffer the terrible effects just because they're addicting to some sticks with no real purpose. Like I'm sure you've seen on the commercials; it only takes one cigarette.

Now my real issue comes up. How did they get to the point of smoking one cigarette? Likely it was in their impressionable, young years.

I know when I was in junior high school and didn't exactly have the most rational thoughts in my head that I was pressured into smoking and doing drugs. The thought of "being cool" and no harm done, etc, far outweighed any negative consequences (as if they mattered at that point). Looking back I am extremely happy I never engaged in any bad behaviors, but I can see how easily I could have.

Now who are the kids that may pressure your children to smoke? I guarantee that they have people in their lives who smoke. Other people smoking have an immense impact on everyone's lives. Making smoking illegal would reduce the people who smoke immensely (as well as those who quit).