Let's Talk Unions again [Split]

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Gozer

/green

I like how someone confuses Communism and the public ownership of property with employees fighting for minimum working conditions.

Typical.

[Poison]

Originally Posted by Gozer

/green

Hey when somethings funny you gotta laugh

Good one Gozer!

[Poison]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I like how someone confuses Communism and the public ownership of property with employees fighting for minimum working conditions.

Typical.

Im thinking/hoping he was just being a smart ass Ozy and thus the /green, i was under the impression that meant sarcasm around here.

[DuffMan]

union job = no accountability, unless rules are broken.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I like how someone confuses Communism and the public ownership of property with employees fighting for minimum working conditions.

Typical.

you can't be serious? are we in china? I would suggest that Canada (the western world" has greater than minimum working conditions!

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

you can't be serious? are we in china? I would suggest that Canada (the western world" has greater than minimum working conditions!

Obviously you've never been chained to a textile machine for 20 hours a day... Boy was I glad when those union guys kicked in the door and rescued us SWAT style.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

you can't be serious? are we in china? I would suggest that Canada (the western world" has greater than minimum working conditions!

That's the general reason for unions existing. Minimum working conditions.

That concept has now evolved in many countries including Canada, but yes, that's why unions were created in the first place.

And sorry for my ignorance on the sarcasm, but the Karl Marx reference is too easy of a card to play!

[Poison]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

That's the general reason for unions existing. Minimum working conditions.

That concept has now evolved in many countries including Canada, but yes, that's why unions were created in the first place.

And sorry for my ignorance on the sarcasm, but the Karl Marx reference is too easy of a card to play!

I got your back Ozy, its all good!

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

That's the general reason for unions existing. Minimum working conditions.

That concept has now evolved in many countries including Canada, but yes, that's why unions were created in the first place.

And sorry for my ignorance on the sarcasm, but the Karl Marx reference is too easy of a card to play!

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

.but IMO, unions came in to address issues that gov'ts currently address. ie: working conditions, age of workers, etc, the issues that arose from the Industrial Revolution.

I think they have out lived their usefulness.

that may have been addressed here earlier......so if the "minimum working conditions have evolved, then are unions still needed in Canada?

[PIMking]

I dislike them dont hate em.

Here in the town of 30k in muscatine iowa we have a large company called GPC owned by Kent Feed. Well the unions contract ran out and Gauge kent (ceo) locked the untion out because of the demands of the union wanted $20 in raises in 3 years to all employees. The lazy people at GPC make more money then most people in town. We also have Hon Desk place here in town that make half of what the people do at GPC but Hon employees are getting a fair wage. GPC's local union 86d wants more money than the 21-25$/hour starting and more vacation days. There are over 360 people out of work because of this. shame

Then I drive dump truck and run the construction part of our company. I make sure all the trucks are working and keep track of payment for the work the trucks have done. Well with the big flood that we had I had to find work in the quad cities and well guess what. They are union. Even though Iowa is a right to work state it doesnt matter. What really pisses me off is the fact if you own your own truck that you pay $160 a month in union dues JUST TO WORK. Your paying someone to work. When you own your own truck the union can "negotiate" for better pay for you they also cant force your boss to pay for your insurance because you are your boss.

its a joke. They make the cost of any construction go up so much. I make more money than anyone in my area by the hour than anyone else unless I go to work in the QC because of the unions. But the trucks get paid the same. tell me how the fleet owners are making any money?

I really dislike unions and they are bringing down GM. The UAW wont pull back some of the rediculus demands and will force the white house to give them money only to help them not fail this month.

Ask nissan, Honda, Toyota how they are making money by building alot of their vehicles in the united states.

[PsYcNeT]

Do unions really serve a purpose outside of the manufacturing sector (or any industry where safety should be a unions primary focus) anymore?

Satisfactory minimums have been set.

And I'm still interested to hear what the pro-unionists think about the York University situation.

[Poison]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

that may have been addressed here earlier......so if the "minimum working conditions have evolved, then are unions still needed in Canada?

So that if your boss or someone in power has something against you (Not for your work performance) you cant be tossed to the curb. (And if you think it doesnt happen that way in the workforce youre wrong)

So that youre guaranteed a decent pension, quality of life, wage increase so that the upper management aren't eating caviar at your expense etc etc etc.

I could go on and on, and for the amount of people ripping the unions here the only point(s) ive seen made is the "lazy" angle, which can be argued for non-union jobs, as well as the driving up wages angle, which can be argued as well for non-union jobs (ie. oil)

So unless someone has something new to bring to the table i dont see any valid points that unions arent a good idea.

Bottom line is we live in a democracy and you can CHOOSE on whether you want to be in a union or not, if you choose not to work in one then keep your ignorance to yourself.

[KTrain]

Regardless of whether you work for a union or not, if you are currently at work, reading and posting in this thread, you're not working hard enough to earn your pay cheque.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by KTrain

Regardless of whether you work for a union or not, if you are currently at work, reading and posting in this thread, you're not working hard enough to earn your pay cheque.

perfectly put

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by Poison

So that if your boss or someone in power has something against you (Not for your work performance) you cant be tossed to the curb. (And if you think it doesnt happen that way in the workforce youre wrong)

So that youre guaranteed a decent pension, quality of life, wage increase so that the upper management aren't eating caviar at your expense etc etc etc.

I could go on and on, and for the amount of people ripping the unions here the only point ive seen made is the "lazy" angle, which can be argued for non-union jobs as well as the driving up wages angle, which can be argued as well for non-union jobs (ie. oil)

So unless someone has something new to bring to the table i dont see any valid points that unions arent a good idea.

Hang on....so you mean if I am fired from my non-union job I have no recourse....none...nothing zilch....I just have to take it?

What should upper managerment eat?

People think Upper Management is a cake walk.....it is not......ask yourself, could you do their job?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by KTrain

Regardless of whether you work for a union or not, if you are currently at work, reading and posting in this thread, you're not working hard enough to earn your pay cheque.

Ehhh, depends what you do. I do a lot of work in social media and keep track of discussions Calgarians are having. Calgarypuck is a surprisingly good source.

[PsYcNeT]

Thats a pretty blanketing statement considering I personally comprise 50% of my companies output at this time of year (less lease construction in winter obviously), despite being 1 of 18 employees on for the Winter Season.

I'm just fast, so I have time for internets.

[DuffMan]

Isn't there a price built in to any of the big 3's vehicles that is used for union pensions. Something like 2 - 3,000, on every car.
So their cars are overpriced (not to mention, not that good) and people don't buy them. They go buy a Honda or Nissan, who don't employ union workers and can sell their cars for less.
I don't agree with comparing someone who screws bolts all day at Ford and makes $70/hour, and a teacher or police/fire man.
They negotiate their contracts with the govt. who is less than flexible.

[Poison]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

Hang on....so you mean if I am fired from my non-union job I have no recourse....none...nothing zilch....I just have to take it?

What should upper managerment eat?

People think Upper Management is a cake walk.....it is not......ask yourself, could you do their job?

Oh you have recourse, but let me know how that works out for you if the person defending you has no idea about your job or whats required to do it.

They can eat whatever they want, not at my expense however.

Who said anything about it being a cake walk?
Im arguing they should not take money out of my pocket for themselves because there is nothing forcing them to give back to the "front line"

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

That's the general reason for unions existing. Minimum working conditions.

That concept has now evolved in many countries including Canada, but yes, that's why unions were created in the first place.

And sorry for my ignorance on the sarcasm, but the Karl Marx reference is too easy of a card to play!

With regrads to public sector unions, Are you really seriously worried that the very people who legislate workers rights legislation would need to have unions protecting the minimum rights of their own workers? Sounds more like people who would rather work 37.5 hours a week at any cost than people who are scared sh^%less that old man Stelmach or old man Bronconnier are going to opress them and place them in harms way.