Sooo...driving is a BITCH. Rant here to alleviate stress.

[Draug]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

his mistake was not having any weight in his bed (or not enough of it). an empty pickup bed is so light that there is almost zero traction on the rear tires, and on ice that back end will swing out with no effort. there's a reason you see so many trucks with cinder blocks or other heavy objects in the back at this time of year

And dont forget to properly secure those heavy items. It may seem like they will never move, and during normal driving they wont. But, the last thing you want in a major accident are 40 lb cement blocks flying around!

[3 Justin 3]

Well I had fun doing a 270 on a corner last night on a pizza delivery. I figured I would slide a bit, and before I knew it I was looking the other way. I laughed 'cause it was 2am so no traffic. But that corner was 100% ice.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Exactly, everyone is forgetting the fact the plows won't get ice off the road and sand/salt is ineffective at these temperatures. I keep hearing the same thing in Red Deer here where the roads are either completely covered or rutted with heavy glazed ice between the ruts. The difference between Calgary and Red Deer though is that Calgary at least makes an attempt, it will be like this the entire winter in Red Deer.

Time to stat adapting the driving styles and not expecting good roads all the time.

I'm going to have to disagree with you about the whole "nothing we can do." Calgary's snow removal is getting shown up by cities like Edmonton and even Winnipeg. Why? Forget the dollar amounts- those should more than anything reflect how little snow we get compared to those cities.

The bottom line is I have spent a number of years driving in Winnipeg, and with temperatures like we have seen recently (-20 highs, -30 lows) the main roads like Portage ave get cleared. No, it isn't summer driving conditions. But there also aren't ruts days after snow falls; or even 12 hours later for that matter.

The plows and graders go through, followed by sand. They get most of the snow and ice, and the remainder is wiped away by the friction of the tires. The same force that gives us our ruts is what will get rid of that ice.

Calgary's snow removal plan calls for waiting for Chinooks. Guess what- there isn't one coming and there hasn't been one for weeks. If a jobsite followed the same safety standards that the city has followed for motorists they would be shut down.

[Jayems]

there is not one ounce of hope left in my body for the people of Calgary when they're driving. everyone is totally inconsiderate, out for themselves and completely oblivious to their surroundings whilst driving. really embarrassed today driving around in heavy traffic... no one lets you in. You let someone else in and they can't be bothered to wave. People just keep going through red lights, get stuck in the intersection and block it for us folk trying to get through that intersection... but nope. You in your SUV have more important things to do and the laws of the road don't apply. Even one of the city's "finest" refused to let me in when trying to merge.

[Draug]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I'm going to have to disagree with you about the whole "nothing we can do." Calgary's snow removal is getting shown up by cities like Edmonton and even Winnipeg. Why? Forget the dollar amounts- those should more than anything reflect how little snow we get compared to those cities.

The bottom line is I have spent a number of years driving in Winnipeg, and with temperatures like we have seen recently (-20 highs, -30 lows) the main roads like Portage ave get cleared. No, it isn't summer driving conditions. But there also aren't ruts days after snow falls; or even 12 hours later for that matter.

The plows and graders go through, followed by sand. They get most of the snow and ice, and the remainder is wiped away by the friction of the tires. The same force that gives us our ruts is what will get rid of that ice.

Calgary's snow removal plan calls for waiting for Chinooks. Guess what- there isn't one coming and there hasn't been one for weeks. If a jobsite followed the same safety standards that the city has followed for motorists they would be shut down.

And it hasnt always been this way either ... 10 years ago, the job done was much better. Much, much better.

[Oxygen-Supply]

Blame this blame that,

1: Putting Salt down after -15 is a big waste, it wont work!, if the city put the Ice down when it is warm during the day, then it will all freeze at night, just in time for rush hour.

2: If the city clears off all the snow (ruts) down to the road, the Tax payers would be paying out the nose to have the roads repaved every few years. Chinooks wreak havoc on the roads by freezing and melting and repeating, this causes all the potholes in the spring. Imagine all the roads that would be torn up when a grader blade hits those cracks and pot holes.

3: I would love for my community roads to be cleared a few days after the snow fall. I would also love to add $300-400 to my tax bill.

4: All the people with those Snow tires. YOU and your big treads are taking off all the gravel the city is putting down.

5: In Rush hour how is the city to clean the streets when everyone is going 20KM/Hour.

6: Hey cities like Edmonton can get all the snow off their streets before us. The population is similar to that of Calgary, but the city of Calgary has 30% more roads to keep clear and less Chinooks problems.

7: The last week it has been snowing every couple of days. So the city has to start all over again each time.

8: Calgary has long period between snow falls, keeping a big staff on payroll would be a big waste of money. Yes they can do other things when it is not snowing. But having 300 people doing odd jobs waiting for a snow fall seams like a big waste of tax payers dollars.

9: The bigger problem is this city is growing to fast and the roads were never designed for the traffic they have now, then add snow. All those years in the 90s when the mayor did not want to spend it is sure biting everyone in the butt now.

10: Why don’t all you complainers that like the snow removal better in other cities move their. Or if you think you can do a better job apply to be mayor or one any of these many jobs https://pehcmw1.calgary.ca/psc/pdhr/...IEW_JOBS.GBL?&

I’m happy living out of town, away from all these negative people. If it is not snow remove it is something else. People just like to complain, if the city paints a wall white someone would be up in arms because it should have been red!!!

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by Jayems

there is not one ounce of hope left in my body for the people of Calgary when they're driving. everyone is totally inconsiderate, out for themselves and completely oblivious to their surroundings whilst driving. really embarrassed today driving around in heavy traffic... no one lets you in. You let someone else in and they can't be bothered to wave. People just keep going through red lights, get stuck in the intersection and block it for us folk trying to get through that intersection... but nope. You in your SUV have more important things to do and the laws of the road don't apply. Even one of the city's "finest" refused to let me in when trying to merge.

Excellent post, considering nearly everything mentioned is correct. Although, usually someone lets me in, and I do wave. And yes, when I let people in no one ever waves to me anymore. Like I could have easily passed you, but I decided to be kind and brake in these awful icy roads to let you in, then you don't even wave (it shows you are at least a bit thankful).

I understand when the roads get bad that people should drive slower, but why must their IQ drop as well? I mean come on, just be cautious and be aware of your surroundings, don't drive like an idiot.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I'm going to have to disagree with you about the whole "nothing we can do." Calgary's snow removal is getting shown up by cities like Edmonton and even Winnipeg. Why? Forget the dollar amounts- those should more than anything reflect how little snow we get compared to those cities.

The bottom line is I have spent a number of years driving in Winnipeg, and with temperatures like we have seen recently (-20 highs, -30 lows) the main roads like Portage ave get cleared. No, it isn't summer driving conditions. But there also aren't ruts days after snow falls; or even 12 hours later for that matter.

The plows and graders go through, followed by sand. They get most of the snow and ice, and the remainder is wiped away by the friction of the tires. The same force that gives us our ruts is what will get rid of that ice.

Calgary's snow removal plan calls for waiting for Chinooks. Guess what- there isn't one coming and there hasn't been one for weeks. If a jobsite followed the same safety standards that the city has followed for motorists they would be shut down.

Well it's too late now, it's past the point of no return. I think it's going to keep happening in Calgary unless major changes take places, such as adding millions to the snow budget, but that isn't realistic. In order to keep these ruts off the roads, the plows need to hit the show within a couple of days. And then the graders need to hit the other roads at some point as well.

I work for roadways here in Edmonton, and I am not criticizing Calgary, because there is simply nothing that can be done right now. One glaring thing I did notice though, is that off of major roads, but where buses still travel, is complete ice rinks. It is almost as if the city of Calgary doesn't even make an attempt to sand bus routes.

I haven't spent a lot of time in Calgary, but does this happen every year, or is this a complete change of pace?

[EVERLAST]

[quote=Oxygen-Supply;1572517]Blame this blame that,

1: Putting Salt down after -15 is a big waste, it wont work!, if the city put the Ice down when it is warm during the day, then it will all freeze at night, just in time for rush hour.

2: If the city clears off all the snow (ruts) down to the road, the Tax payers would be paying out the nose to have the roads repaved every few years. Chinooks wreak havoc on the roads by freezing and melting and repeating, this causes all the potholes in the spring. Imagine all the roads that would be torn up when a grader blade hits those cracks and pot holes.

3: I would love for my community roads to be cleared a few days after the snow fall. I would also love to add $300-400 to my tax bill.

4: All the people with those Snow tires. YOU and your big treads are taking off all the gravel the city is putting down.

5: In Rush hour how is the city to clean the streets when everyone is going 20KM/Hour.

6: Hey cities like Edmonton can get all the snow off their streets before us. The population is similar to that of Calgary, but the city of Calgary has 30% more roads to keep clear and less Chinooks problems.

7: The last week it has been snowing every couple of days. So the city has to start all over again each time.

8: Calgary has long period between snow falls, keeping a big staff on payroll would be a big waste of money. Yes they can do other things when it is not snowing. But having 300 people doing odd jobs waiting for a snow fall seams like a big waste of tax payers dollars.

9: The bigger problem is this city is growing to fast and the roads were never designed for the traffic they have now, then add snow. All those years in the 90s when the mayor did not want to spend it is sure biting everyone in the butt now.

10: Why don’t all you complainers that like the snow removal better in other cities move their. Or if you think you can do a better job apply to be mayor or one any of these many jobs https://pehcmw1.calgary.ca/psc/pdhr/...IEW_JOBS.GBL?&

Damn us ....damn us all us damn snowtireresponsiblehavehalfabrain in our heads people

[flip]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Well it's too late now, it's past the point of no return. I think it's going to keep happening in Calgary unless major changes take places, such as adding millions to the snow budget, but that isn't realistic. In order to keep these ruts off the roads, the plows need to hit the show within a couple of days. And then the graders need to hit the other roads at some point as well.

I work for roadways here in Edmonton, and I am not criticizing Calgary, because there is simply nothing that can be done right now. One glaring thing I did notice though, is that off of major roads, but where buses still travel, is complete ice rinks. It is almost as if the city of Calgary doesn't even make an attempt to sand bus routes.

I haven't spent a lot of time in Calgary, but does this happen every year, or is this a complete change of pace?

Hard to say. Almost everyone complains every year it seems. I've heard Winnipeg is really good but then again they probably pay way more taxes than us and are socialists.

I know in Regina the side streets are basically never done. Imagine 1ft deep ruts or more with tons of snow all over the side streets, major roads are usually ok.

I've never had a huge problem with Calgary. There is so much we don't know about what the City does it is hard to say if we can just blame them. Maybe it is too cold, or maybe they aren't used to 5 or 6 different occassions within 3 weeks where it snows about 1cm or so, as opposed to one big dump of snow that can be cleared right away.

I liken it to summer. Every summer everyone complains that we haven't had any good weather even if from mid june to the end of July it is 30 above every single day, and then it rains for like 4 straight days in August and everyone says it is another typical crappy summer.

Same with the roads. I'm not saying they are great, but I think we'd complain no matter what.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Oxygen-Supply

3: I would love for my community roads to be cleared a few days after the snow fall. I would also love to add $300-400 to my tax bill.

You obviously missed the news reports when they talked about this, and the threads here. The estimated cost to the tax bill to plow the residential streets after every snow fall was closer to $60 per homeowner per year. Never mind would I be willing to pay that, but I also don't need it done after every snowfall. 2 or3 times per year would be fine. That would also address the issues of not enough staff when the big snowfalls hit.

Originally Posted by Oxygen-Supply

10: Why don’t all you complainers that like the snow removal better in other cities move their. Or if you think you can do a better job apply to be mayor or one any of these many jobs https://pehcmw1.calgary.ca/psc/pdhr/...IEW_JOBS.GBL?&

Really? So, no citizen should ever make a complaint- because we aren't the ones running things? We elect people to make these choices for us, and elections make people accountable. Just because I wouldn't make for a very good mayor doesn't mean my opinion doesn't mean anything.

Originally Posted by Oxygen-Supply

I’m happy living out of town, away from all these negative people. If it is not snow remove it is something else. People just like to complain, if the city paints a wall white someone would be up in arms because it should have been red!!!

First off, if you don't even live in Calgary why is it your concern? Secondly, the primary issue here is safety. Inconvienience asside, my complaint is about how the city is looking to spare a few dollars over safety. Yes, some people complain about many things. However what did you expect to read when coming into a "rant" thread?

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by Oxygen-Supply

6: Hey cities like Edmonton can get all the snow off their streets before us. The population is similar to that of Calgary, but the city of Calgary has 30% more roads to keep clear and less Chinooks problems.

Hey guess what? Cities like Edmonton spend more the DOUBLE what we do on road maintenance and THAT is why their roads are cleared faster and more efficiently. It isn't the snow tires, rush hour, man power or any of the other BS excuses your pulled out (BTW, Bronco is that you?), it comes down to, yep you guessed it, MONEY. The old saying "what you put in you can expect to get out" applies well here. You spend a paltry, embarrassing sum of money and you will receive a paltry, embarrassing (not to mention dangerous) situation back in return.

[4X4]

So yesterday I was taking my usual short cut through lower mount royal and I passed by a car that had been hit and run. It was kinda funny to me because the owner parked in the stupidest spot ever. Right at the bottom of an extremely icy hill. Good job, genius.
I happened to pass by again a couple hours later and I saw the guy wandering around in despair. Picking up pieces of his smashed bumper, etc. I had to laugh at the guy. Sorry, I have no sympathy for people that are so stupid. Bad place to park, buddy.

[burn_this_city]

Ken Im sure it would be 300-400 with the pathetic productivity we'd get for our money. People should know the plowing budgets aren't completely spent in many quadrants of the city. My friends dad has been a plow driver for 25 years. He said they give out sizable bonuses in the spring if there is money left over. So essentially a free trip to Hawaii trumps safety.

[You Need a Thneed]

I think the problem in Calgary was the road conditions when the first snow hit. That bottom layer of snow is so dense and packed down (and happened during the day when all the plows were stuck in traffic too), that even the truck mounted plows can't do anything about it now, they just aren't heavy enough. Graders can do the job, but there simply aren't enough of them to do more then the major roads (and then at that, they probobly can only do major roads at night - other then a quick pass.

I know that the truck mounted plows have attempted to plow the bus routes at least up here in Martindale, the result is a little bit of snow pushed off to the side, but there still is a rutty, 100% snow covered road.

Any city that had their snow fall under the same conditions wouldn't be getting the snow of their streets either.

Some people just want the (virtually) impossible done, and then complain when it's not done.

[Nancy]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

I think the problem in Calgary was the road conditions when the first snow hit. That bottom layer of snow is so dense and packed down (and happened during the day when all the plows were stuck in traffic too), that even the truck mounted plows can't do anything about it now, they just aren't heavy enough. Graders can do the job, but there simply aren't enough of them to do more then the major roads (and then at that, they probobly can only do major roads at night - other then a quick pass.

I know that the truck mounted plows have attempted to plow the bus routes at least up here in Martindale, the result is a little bit of snow pushed off to the side, but there still is a rutty, 100% snow covered road.

Any city that had their snow fall under the same conditions wouldn't be getting the snow of their streets either.

Some people just want the (virtually) impossible done, and then complain when it's not done.

Funny that I saw a grader out 3 or 4 days ago at this location... you can't tell me this is a major roadway.

http://www.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&...27466&t=h&z=15


IMO, the City doesn't need to spend more, they need to spent smarter. Fewer staff, less equipment... but have contracts with private companies that can be pulled in on an emergency basis after these snowfalls. Especially given that this works needs to be done at night anyway, I am sure there are companies out there that have equipment sitting idle at night and staff who would be more than happy to take the overtime a few times a year.

[BlackArcher101]

They DO hire private companies/contractors. Again though there is limited money put aside and availability of equipment. It will also cost more to hire these, so how would that be spending money smarter?

My replies in this thread are based on what we can do right NOW, not the past where we should have done this or that. Make a thread when winter is over to start planning on how someone can fix this debacle. The budget is what it is, there's no changing it now. So at this point, they can do nothing. It's not even apples and oranges comparing Calgary to cities such as Edmonton or Winnipeg as they are different scenarios all around.

[Dartem]

I work for the city as a sander driver/plower let me just address some of the things in this thread. Feel free to ask away

Originally Posted by Oxygen-Supply

Blame this blame that, 8: Calgary has long period between snow falls, keeping a big staff on payroll would be a big waste of money. Yes they can do other things when it is not snowing. But having 300 people doing odd jobs waiting for a snow fall seams like a big waste of tax payers dollars.

This is your only point I can disagree with. Nobody wants us sitting around doing nothing until the snow falls until the snow falls. Then everyone screams about why the snow wasnt cleared in 20 minutes. Ever try to call in somebody to work at 2am when you have grumpy bitter old men who only stay working for the city to collection their pension and spite their superiors?

Originally Posted by ken0042

You obviously missed the news reports when they talked about this, and the threads here. The estimated cost to the tax bill to plow the residential streets after every snow fall was closer to $60 per homeowner per year. Never mind would I be willing to pay that, but I also don't need it done after every snowfall. 2 or3 times per year would be fine. That would also address the issues of not enough staff when the big snowfalls hit.

Its not just staff its equipment the city needs to buy. We are running so many sanders that are so old and they break down. Add in new equipment, maintainance costs, training to use them and staff for 4 shifts, it adds up in a hurry.

Right now at full capactity, with the size of the city it works out to around 1 plow for every 70lane km of road out there. Travel time to get to a depot that has material (pickle or salt),waitin g for the loader guy to finish taking a crap and get out to load you etc etc its a time consuming job.

Originally Posted by Nancy

IMO, the City doesn't need to spend more, they need to spent smarter. Fewer staff, less equipment... but have contracts with private companies that can be pulled in on an emergency basis after these snowfalls. Especially given that this works needs to be done at night anyway, I am sure there are companies out there that have equipment sitting idle at night and staff who would be more than happy to take the overtime a few times a year.

Thanks for advocating putting me out of a job first of all. Secondlu there arent many companies out there with the equipment sitting idle. Carmacks is busy with the Deerfoot and other companies are contracted out doing parking lots and other bull. I guaruntee there isnt a lot of snow clearing equipment sitting idle when there is snow. And what you propose paying them OT to do is costing more when you have city drivers making substantially less on straight time, already doing it.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Nancy

IMO, the City doesn't need to spend more, they need to spent smarter. Fewer staff, less equipment... but have contracts with private companies that can be pulled in on an emergency basis after these snowfalls. Especially given that this works needs to be done at night anyway, I am sure there are companies out there that have equipment sitting idle at night and staff who would be more than happy to take the overtime a few times a year.

Isn't Deerfoot done by contract? Deerfoot was terrible after the initial snowfall far longer than any other road. Is this what we want for our response? I dont think so.

[boobaloo]

We got about a foot of snow here in Courtenay and my dead-end residential side street has been plowed twice. The plow makes a big pile in front of the driveway, so that adds to the shovelling chore, but hey, our lows are in the -5 range and highs of zero, so who'd complaining!