Will the government fall?

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by Bertuzzied@May 19 2005, 02:51 PM
You'd think they would be updated enough to use a computer system or something to count the votes

Tradition.

And yeah, Cadman votes in favor of bribes and corruption.

[CaptainCrunch]

Figures

Its kind of disgusting to me

get rid of a ineffective government rife with corruption, buys votes and party members

vs

We don't want an election we're to lazy to vote.

Stupid, stupid stupid

How long until we see more special funds projects in Quebec where the house of commons dosen't have a vote. I'm guessing tommorrow.

Way to reward a bunch of crooks and scumbags.

[Natt]

Originally posted by Snakeeye+May 19 2005, 09:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snakeeye @ May 19 2005, 09:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Bertuzzied@May 19 2005, 02:51 PM
You'd think they would be updated enough to use a computer system or something to count the votes

Tradition.

And yeah, Cadman votes in favor of bribes and corruption. [/b][/quote]
He voted for his constituents. If his constituents want "bribes and corruption" then it his job as an MP to deliver what they want. Most people are aware of what is going on with the Liberals seeing how it is splashed in our faces everywhere. In spite of this all, poll after poll have shown that the majority of Canada is against an election right now. Also, they may be informed and realize that this corruption happened more than 10 years ago with an almost different Liberal Party than the one today.

[Mccree]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@May 19 2005, 02:57 PM
Figures

Its kind of disgusting to me

get rid of a ineffective government rife with corruption, buys votes and party members

vs

We don't want an election we're to lazy to vote.

Stupid, stupid stupid

How long until we see more special funds projects in Quebec where the house of commons dosen't have a vote. I'm guessing tommorrow.

Way to reward a bunch of crooks and scumbags.

This is the problem. I agree with 100% of what you just said. Like it is hard to mark an X on a piece of paper.

[albertGQ]

So the Belinda defection turned out to be HUGE

Stupid Bitch!!!

[Bertuzzied]

Originally posted by albertGQ@May 19 2005, 10:04 PM
So the Belinda defection turned out to be HUGE

Stupid Bitch!!!

I'm glad you are so educated.
We love Robot Lady!

[Natt]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@May 19 2005, 09:57 PM
get rid of a ineffective government rife with corruption, buys votes and party members

I'm curious because I've been hearing this a lot lately and I want to clarify: exactly how and what do you have as proof (other than an opinion and he said she saids) that Liberals are buying 'votes and party members?'

[browna]

Originally posted by Natt@May 19 2005, 03:59 PM
He voted for his constituents. If his constituents want "bribes and corruption" then it his job as an MP to deliver what they want. Most people are aware of what is going on with the Liberals seeing how it is splashed in our faces everywhere. In spite of this all, poll after poll have shown that the majority of Canada is against an election right now. Also, they may be informed and realize that this corruption happened more than 10 years ago with an almost different Liberal Party than the one today.

Not to open this can of worms again, but did Belinda Stronach ask her consitituents to vote what they wanted before her move?

Agreed, the general public feeling it a "nusiance" to go and vote again is truly pathetic for democracy. I wonder how sceintific this poll is..if that 2/3 of the 600 who voted for this poll in Cadman's riding actually voted last time at all.

Almost different Liberal Party? Except for the man who controlled the purse strings at the time, who's now the head of the party.

[Lurch]

A few observations on the vote:

Where's the outcry that Harper allegedly tried to 'buy' Cadman's vote by supporting him in the election that would have been imminent if Cadman went with the CPC's?

How poorly has Harper misread this situation? If he was truly interested in bringing credibility to the party, would it not have made more sense to upstage Layton? Basically, go to the Liberals with an offer to support the budget but insert a variety of right wing amendments. My take is that Ontario would see that as far preferable to the siding with the Bloc, losing the vote, and letting lefty amendments get into the budget - never mind the Stronach situation. Just my opinion, but a little patience would have went a long way to establishing yourself as a moderate alternative to the Libs. Layton took Harper to school on this in terms of representing your constituents and improving your image with voters.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally posted by Natt+May 19 2005, 03:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Natt @ May 19 2005, 03:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-CaptainCrunch@May 19 2005, 09:57 PM
get rid of a ineffective government rife with corruption, buys votes and party members

I'm curious because I've been hearing this a lot lately and I want to clarify: exactly how and what do you have as proof (other than an opinion and he said she saids) that Liberals are buying 'votes and party members?' [/b][/quote]
It isn't like he is waving two sticks at each other hoping they will catch fire. There has been talk about this for weeks, and finally it comes true, then the next day a recording comes out that PMPM dismisses as lies for all intents and purposes. Sorry, but if you think that Belinda woke up one day and said I think I will switch sides, then the only person you are fooling is yourself.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally posted by Lurch@May 19 2005, 10:12 PM
A few observations on the vote:

Where's the outcry that Harper allegedly tried to 'buy' Cadman's vote by supporting him in the election that would have been imminent if Cadman went with the CPC's?

How poorly has Harper misread this situation? If he was truly interested in bringing credibility to the party, would it not have made more sense to upstage Layton? Basically, go to the Liberals with an offer to support the budget but insert a variety of right wing amendments. My take is that Ontario would see that as far preferable to the siding with the Bloc, losing the vote, and letting lefty amendments get into the budget - never mind the Stronach situation. Just my opinion, but a little patience would have went a long way to establishing yourself as a moderate alternative to the Libs. Layton took Harper to school on this in terms of representing your constituents and improving your image with voters.

You're absolutely right Lurch!

Harper has shown that he has no interest in being an effective opposition leader. He only wants the top job. When there is a minority government, the opposition party has a huge opportunity to make things happen for themselves, but Harper is p*ssing it away all for his own glory.

If I were a conservative, I would be really upset at how Harper played this.

Oh, and thank God for Stronach. I love that chick!! :P

[CaptainCrunch]

Honestly, I hope that the Conservatives find a way to jam up the house and defeat every bill that the Liberal's put forward from now until after an election is called.

I'm now of a mind that I don't want the Liberal's to be able to do anything at all.

They should also start buying the disgruntled Liberal members that are p*ssed about Stronach getting thrust into the human resources roll before them, they should start talking to the few honest Liberal's who are tired of working for a corrupt party..

Its buying season on MP's

If its a brilliant move for the Liberal's to buy votes, then I want to see the Conservatives doing it.

I want to see parliment completely disabled until the next election.

[Natt]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard+May 19 2005, 10:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mean Mr. Mustard @ May 19 2005, 10:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

I'm curious because I've been hearing this a lot lately and I want to clarify: exactly how and what do you have as proof (other than an opinion and he said she saids) that Liberals are buying 'votes and party members?'

It isn't like he is waving two sticks at each other hoping they will catch fire. There has been talk about this for weeks, and finally it comes true, then the next day a recording comes out that PMPM dismisses as lies for all intents and purposes. Sorry, but if you think that Belinda woke up one day and said I think I will switch sides, then the only person you are fooling is yourself. [/b][/quote]
Actually, I read an article in the Globe and Mail about weeks before she crossed. In this article, she warned the Conservatives not to align with the Bloc because the only party that was benefitting was the Bloc. Stronach showed that she was uncomfortable with this alliance so when she crossed, I don't think I was as floored as some.
I try to keep myself informed rather than jump to conclusions.

[Mccree]

Originally posted by Natt+May 19 2005, 03:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Natt @ May 19 2005, 03:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

It isn't like he is waving two sticks at each other hoping they will catch fire. There has been talk about this for weeks, and finally it comes true, then the next day a recording comes out that PMPM dismisses as lies for all intents and purposes. Sorry, but if you think that Belinda woke up one day and said I think I will switch sides, then the only person you are fooling is yourself.

Actually, I read an article in the Globe and Mail about weeks before she crossed. In this article, she warned the Conservatives not to align with the Bloc because the only party that was benefitting was the Bloc. Stronach showed that she was uncomfortable with this alliance so when she crossed, I don't think I was as floored as some.
I try to keep myself informed rather than jump to conclusions. [/b][/quote]
Not that It matter now. BUT does she switch sides if she DOES NOT get a Cabinet positing?

If you can answer yes then I have no problem with her switching.

I, for one, am not sure she does so and that bugs me big time.

[Hakan]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@May 19 2005, 03:23 PM
Honestly, I hope that the Conservatives find a way to jam up the house and defeat every bill that the Liberal's put forward from now until after an election is called.

I'm now of a mind that I don't want the Liberal's to be able to do anything at all.

They should also start buying the disgruntled Liberal members that are p*ssed about Stronach getting thrust into the human resources roll before them, they should start talking to the few honest Liberal's who are tired of working for a corrupt party..

Its buying season on MP's

If its a brilliant move for the Liberal's to buy votes, then I want to see the Conservatives doing it.

I want to see parliment completely disabled until the next election.

This is getting plain ludicrous.

Why on Earth would you want parliament paralyzed? The great part of a minority government is that if all parties work together they can implement many of their policies to the benefit of the people that voted for them.

Talk about cutting off your nose in spite of your face.

[Lurch]

(CaptainCrunch @ May 19 2005, 03:23 PM)
Honestly, I hope that the Conservatives find a way to jam up the house and defeat every bill that the Liberal's put forward from now until after an election is called.

I'm now of a mind that I don't want the Liberal's to be able to do anything at all.

They should also start buying the disgruntled Liberal members that are p*ssed about Stronach getting thrust into the human resources roll before them, they should start talking to the few honest Liberal's who are tired of working for a corrupt party..

Its buying season on MP's

If its a brilliant move for the Liberal's to buy votes, then I want to see the Conservatives doing it.

I want to see parliment completely disabled until the next election.

Interesting approach - sabatoge the party completely, destroy its credibility in about 7 of 10 provinces, and ensure another Liberal government when the vote does come. I'm not sure taking your ball and going home is appropriate in national politics.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Hakan+May 19 2005, 10:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hakan @ May 19 2005, 10:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-CaptainCrunch@May 19 2005, 03:23 PM
Honestly, I hope that the Conservatives find a way to jam up the house and defeat every bill that the Liberal's put forward from now until after an election is called.

I'm now of a mind that I don't want the Liberal's to be able to do anything at all.

They should also start buying the disgruntled Liberal members that are p*ssed about Stronach getting thrust into the human resources roll before them, they should start talking to the few honest Liberal's who are tired of working for a corrupt party..

Its buying season on MP's

If its a brilliant move for the Liberal's to buy votes, then I want to see the Conservatives doing it.

I want to see parliment completely disabled until the next election.

This is getting plain ludicrous.

Why on Earth would you want parliament paralyzed? The great part of a minority government is that if all parties work together they can implement many of their policies to the benefit of the people that voted for them.

Talk about cutting off your nose in spite of your face. [/b][/quote]
The Liberal's would never ever work with the Conservatives, don't fool yourself, they will work with the NDP, not because the NDP are like minded, but because the NDP can be manipulated by offering them 5 billion dollars in cash, for thier programs..

I'd prefer that the Liberal's are unable to pass anything, if they can't be punished by bouncing them out of government, at least they can be punished in other ways.

[CaptainCrunch]

And I might be running on total sarcasm, right at the moment.

But I still think that the Conservatives should start buying Liberal and NDP back benchers.

[Lurch]

The Liberal's would never ever work with the Conservatives, don't fool yourself, they will work with the NDP, not because the NDP are like minded, but because the NDP can be manipulated by offering them 5 billion dollars in cash, for thier programs..

Isn't this exactly how a minority government is supposed to work, i.e. one party has to play give and take and can't just dictate policy. I could be wrong, but I would think given Martin's track record in politics, that he would have preferred to deal with the PC's on the budget. I can't state things in absolutes like most do in these threads, but IMO it was Harper that didn't want to play ball and try to accomplish some of his goals through working with Martin, not vice versa.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Lurch@May 19 2005, 10:41 PM

Isn't this exactly how a minority government is supposed to work, i.e. one party has to play give and take and can't just dictate policy. I could be wrong, but I would think given Martin's track record in politics, that he would have preferred to deal with the PC's on the budget. I can't state things in absolutes like most do in these threads, but IMO it was Harper that didn't want to play ball and try to accomplish some of his goals through working with Martin, not vice versa.

my feeling on that to be totally honest is that Harper didn't want to associate and appear to be propping up a party as mired in corruption as the Liberal's are. It would do nothing more than make his voter base (The West) question his motives, and his honesty.

Also why would Harper team up with the party that has widened the alienation with his voting base.

By teaming up with the Liberal's, it would have gained him no seats in the east, and probably cost him seats in the west

just my 2 cents.