Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[Gozer]

Am I the only one that is ardently conservative, politically aware, and not really that wound up about this?

I don't disagree with CC and others who say this would be a disaster, and I do not think this is what the electorate wanted, but it is within the law and within the spirit of the parliamentary process. The NDP, Bloc, and the Greens have virtually no shot at winning an election - this is the only way they get any semblance of power. I have no sympathy or loyalty for any of them, but I did sympathize with the Reform party and resented that they never had a shot at making an impact. I think the Bloc are treasonous, but as long as they are a viable political party, they have the same rights any others have. I would like for the Queen to rule on this directly, forgoing the GG, and I would support the Queen permitting this abomination.

[FanIn80]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/...p-spector.html

How Gov. Gen. Jean could possibly decide now that a coalition led by an interim leader and so lacking in democratic legitimacy could provide stable government to Canadians is beyond me.

On October 14, Canadians selected a minority Conservative government. While more people voted for the three opposition parties than for Harper, no one voted for the coalition that it is being proposed; indeed, all three parties explicitly denied during the campaign they would ever consider it.

If Jean were to decide to hand power over to a Liberal-led coalition under Stéphane Dion, many Canadians would feel that this is precisely the outcome they rejected barely two months ago.

Conservative voters would be furious. Many Western Canadians would feel that the government had been stolen from them. Outside Quebec, there would be strong resentment against a party dedicated to breaking up Canada having such a key supporting role in governing the country.

We also shouldn't overlook the fact that Michaëlle Jean was appointed to her position by former prime minister Paul Martin and therefore the optics of her restoring Liberal rule would be terrible.

Critics would not just stop there. At the time of her appointment, she also held French citizenship, which she wisely renounced in the ensuing controversy.

There was also considerable controversy over whether she and her spouse, Jean-Daniel Lafond, had harboured separatist sympathies; in his case at least, few of those who know him believed the denials.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by photon

Right, a mandate from his constituents, which is no different than any other mandate from any other guy from their constituents.. and he won't lose that in this cause he's still representing his constituency.

Sorry I didn't hear this argument, I can't follow this as close as I'd like to.

However...he was elected leader of his party...meaning he is the sitting PM just as he was vefore the lection.

That is a mandate...weak? yes, but it is still his.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by driveway

Well, I see that people are incapable of getting past their knee-jerk regionalism and irrational fears. Y'all can have your little roundtable of redneckery and I'm going to go enjoy my majority-seat-holding, totally legal, coalition government.

Peace.

They'll only hold the majority until they allow Quebec to seperate, and then where will they be?

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by ikaris

This 1.3 billion likely has to do with the auto, manufacturing, forestry, and mining bailout that has been mentioned as one of the points in the accord. It's really hard to say without knowing their full plan, but it's probably not going to get that far anyways.

I don't think so. My understanding is that it would be a 1.3 billion increase in the equalization transfer payment to the province of Quebec. Guess which provinces the money would come from?

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/...p-spector.html

It says a lot when even Pravda thinks the Separatist Coalition is illegitimate and that the electorate should decide the issue.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I don't think so. My understanding is that it would be a 1.3 billion increase in the equalization transfer payment to the province of Quebec. Guess which provinces the money would come from?

Ontario?

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

Ontario?

Nova Scotia, obviously.

[Bertuzzied]

If Harper wants to take a break until January, what is going to happen to our financial crisis during that time. Can he do anything during the 'holiday break'?

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

Cabinet looks like it's forming:

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...n-cabinet.aspx

sorry if fata

Goodale at Finance
Rae and Foreign Affairs
McGuinty at Trade
Layton at Industry (hah)
Bennet at Health
Coderre at Public Works

Sounds like Ignatieff is getting shut out of power ... probably for being a dissenter. I could get to like Ignatieff if he truly is standing up to these hyenas. And no mention of who will be environment minister, which suggests the speculation about it going to Elizabeth May is still in play. Otherwise it sounds like the usual band of crooks to me.

[transplant99]

Prime Minister Stephen Harper is expected to visit Gov.-Gen. Michaelle Jean tomorrow morning to ask her to halt Parliament temporarily or allow a snap election to be held

. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/547515

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Sounds like Ignatieff is getting shut out of power ... probably for being a dissenter. I could get to like Ignatieff if he truly is standing up to these hyenas. And no mention of who will be environment minister, which suggests the speculation about it going to Elizabeth May is still in play. Otherwise it sounds like the usual band of crooks to me.

It's hard to say whether he's truly a dissenter, or simply recognises that as the front-runner in the leadership race, he has nothing to gain by stepping into the spotlight right now. When it comes to the convention in May, Liberals are going to want someone who's as far as possible from this coalition, regardless of whether the Liberals are in power or near extinction at that time. And if elected, he'd have the authority to punt pretty much everyone involved. I'm looking forward to when this group of people start to release their autbiographies a few years, so we can find out what's been going on behind the scenes.

[Winsor_Pilates]

If an election was called tomorow, I think I might have to vote Conservative. ugg, this whole ordeal is making me feel dirty

[transplant99]

It's hard to say whether he's truly a dissenter, or simply recognises that as the front-runner in the leadership race, he has nothing to gain by stepping into the spotlight right now.

Yup yup

Thats why I was surprised to see his named mentioned anywhere close to this whole mess.

he steps back after initial support and lets the chips fall where they may and after the dust settles...gets at least a clean slate to start with...albeit one that could be completely and utterly beat up and broke.

[photon]

Originally Posted by transplant99

However...he was elected leader of his party...meaning he is the sitting PM just as he was vefore the lection.

That is a mandate...weak? yes, but it is still his.

True, though he's leader of the party elected by the party members.

To me that's always been a basic flaw in our system; people vote as if they're voting for a leader, but the way the system works it's an indirect thing not a direct thing.

We've had past cases where the leader and thereby PM changed without an election. The right thing to do is for the leader to call an election and seek a mandate.

So as you say the mandate is quite weak, weak enough that in my mind the word mandate wasn't even appropriate, but that's just semantics.

All the other elected officials also have their mandates and I guess this whole thing could be viewed as them exercising their mandates.

To me it doesn't matter if you think that Harper forced this by treating it if he had a majority (not a bad idea since he probably didn't think a coalition was a viable option they'd consider) or if this is simply a ill advised ill timed power grab, either way the timing of it really sucks.

[FLAMESRULE]

Originally Posted by transplant99

. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/547515

"Adding to the intrigue, the Bloc Québécois said it is seeking up to $500 million in post-secondary education transfers in the first budget of a proposed Liberal-NDP coalition government, suggesting that — while it has pledged to support the coalition — it won't be a silent backer."

And the collapse of the coalition has already started...

[Bobblehead]

Well, this is interesting....

The separatist Bloc Québécois was part of secret plotting in 2000 to join a formal coalition with the two parties that now make up Stephen Harper's government, according to documents obtained by The Globe and Mail.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

In an interview, Mr. Chipeur played down the importance of the offer, saying he never discussed the matter with Mr. Day or other MPs, and was simply getting ready in the event of a minority government.

“I was preparing for what might happen,” Mr. Chipeur said.

Still, the agreement included room at the bottom for the signatures of Mr. Day, Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe and Mr. Clark, to be signed the day after the election.

At the time, the Alliance was ready to fly Mr. Day from his BC riding to Calgary to pick up Mr. Clark on the way to Ottawa, where the deal was to be presented to the Governor-General in the event of a minority Parliament.

The Alliance government promised in the event of a coalition to “respect the legitimate jurisdictions of Canada's provinces, including Quebec.”

They are ALL scoundrels.

[Jade]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

If an election was called tomorow, I think I might have to vote Conservative. ugg, this whole ordeal is making me feel dirty

Welcome to the dark side. Come in, take a look around. You might find it's not as bad here as you were lead to believe.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yup yup

Thats why I was surprised to see his named mentioned anywhere close to this whole mess.

he steps back after initial support and lets the chips fall where they may and after the dust settles...gets at least a clean slate to start with...albeit one that could be completely and utterly beat up and broke.

If I'm Ignatieff, I'd be upset right now.

The only thing that was going to heal the Liberal Party was time. All they had to do was act like a responsible opposition and force the ruling party into comprimises. Over time, they would have imporved their popularity. By forcing themselves into government, they are really doing themselves a disservice and Ignatieff will be lucky if he can ever be PM (assuming the Liberals did choose him).

Could you imagine in Harper managed to lure Ignatieff to the Conservatives? The Liberal Party would be set back quite a bit.

Layton is looking pretty smart in my opinion. He is forcing himself into cabinet and hurting the Liberals while he does it.

[transplant99]

To me that's always been a basic flaw in our system; people vote as if they're voting for a leader, but the way the system works it's an indirect thing not a direct thing.

We've had past cases where the leader and thereby PM changed without an election. The right thing to do is for the leader to call an election and seek a mandate.

Dont disagree with any of this and it is why I have always said that the US system is SO much more preferable...you get to actually vote for a leader.

The mandate thing is a term that is used in lieu of anything else I guess....but its what its always been called whether or not the sitting PM had a minority or a majority.