Alberta's Ticket Out? Poll

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

We get rewarded with part leaderships and senate seats?

And don't forget the almighty buck ninety-five per vote!

[Ronald Pagan]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Wow, I guess that explains why East Timor and Kosovo aren't recognized by the international community. Oh wait, yes they are.

You also think the US wouldn't freak out that their "safest" significant supply of foreign oil is in a civil war? You think they wouldn't react?

I don't think so.

Bad bad bad logic.

For that comparison to have any merit you'd have to demonstrate how Albertans had a legitimate case for their right to self-determination.

Laughably bad.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It wouldn't be at civil war because Alberta doesn't have a military or means to fight back. I doubt there would even ever be more than 30% support among the civilian population.

As for Kosovo and East Timor, I could point out several more examples of regions that declared themselves independent and never received international recognition... including areas that have distinct histories, languages, and cultures. Not to mention, Kosovo and East Timor each had recent genocides... they had real problems compared to what "Alberta separatists" have - which are extemely trivial in comparison.

Alberta oil is just as accessible to the U.S. no matter what. They aren't going to support political and economic instability on the continent with their largest trading partner. For them, the status quo would be much more preferable.

True, yet inconsequential.

Alberta would form an army PFQ if Canada wanted to invade. Probably a lousy one. I'm quite sure International Law tends to follow that Canada's international treaties would continue to apply to Alberta, since Alberta as an entity was represented by Canada as a state actor. Therefore, any Canadian invasion would very quickly result in a US led NATO occupation of the region. There is no way an invasion of a recently seceeded country by democratic vote would be seen as anything but tyrannical and aggressive, and Canada would instantly be dealt with as such. In other words, Canada would never even think to do it. In fact, its so unlikely, it makes Alberta Separation look as likely as a sunrise.

Yes, the US would be pissed at any separation. Odds are, they'd be at the table making sure Canada and the new nation(s) of Alberta and whoever else leave don't descend into chaos.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Alberta oil is just as accessible to the U.S. no matter what. They aren't going to support political and economic instability on the continent with their largest trading partner. For them, the status quo would be much more preferable.

So do you really believe the world community would simply disregard a legal vote for independence by Alberta, Quebec, or any other province in Confederation?

Keep in mind that Canada is legally obligated to negotiate per the Clarity Act. Independence is not going to be one province standing up and stating that they are done with Canada. It is something that will be negotiated following an expression of such by a clear majority of that province's inhabitants.

This simply is not something the world would disregard.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

Bad bad bad logic.

For that comparison to have any merit you'd have to demonstrate how Albertans had a legitimate case for their right to self-determination.

Laughably bad.

Come on, you're smarter than this.

DEMOCRATIC WILL. Probably THE most legitimate case for the right of self-determination out there.

If Alberta had a successful vote, and succeeded with required negotiations.... then Canada aimed its guns this way, you don't think that's grounds for international force? Hah.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

True, yet inconsequential.

Alberta would form an army PFQ if Canada wanted to invade. Probably a lousy one. I'm quite sure International Law tends to follow that Canada's international treaties would continue to apply to Alberta, since Alberta as an entity was represented by Canada as a state actor. Therefore, any Canadian invasion would very quickly result in a US led NATO occupation of the region. There is no way an invasion of a recently seceeded country by democratic vote would be seen as anything but tyrannical and aggressive, and Canada would instantly be dealt with as such. In other words, Canada would never even think to do it. In fact, its so unlikely, it makes Alberta Separation look as likely as a sunrise.

Yes, the US would be pissed at any separation. Odds are, they'd be at the table making sure Canada and the new nation(s) of Alberta and whoever else leave don't descend into chaos.

Sounds like recent history......although I will say the '90's were a great time for me personally

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_wars

or

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War

[transplant99]

Yeah Im kind of curious for those that think the US would invade Alberta....

If/When Quebec finally suceeds in forming its own sovereign nation....will the US invade them then? If so, who/what is going to stop them from doing so?

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Alberta would form an army PFQ if Canada wanted to invade.

Rednecks in pick ups does not make an army

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah Im kind of curious for those that think the US would invade Alberta....

If/When Quebec finally suceeds in forming its own sovereign nation....will the US invade them then? If so, who/what is going to stop them from doing so?

Well if Quebec had oil...

[Muta]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

Alberta would form an army PFQ if Canada wanted to invade.

Rednecks in pick ups does not make an army

I dunno, throw in some banjo music and they might be pretty riled up under the Albertan banner...

[burn_this_city]

If the Americans were truly interested in manifest destiny they would have done it by now.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Looks like it has already started...

Yikes.

Anyone know who this guy is?

http://www.separationalberta.com/

Yes.....

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

Alberta would form an army PFQ if Canada wanted to invade.

Rednecks in pick ups does not make an army

LOL. Agreed. Thats why I said probably a lousy one.

In all seriousness, it would probably be a militia based on a quick cobbling of CF remnants and police, with the rednecks filling in the numbers.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah Im kind of curious for those that think the US would invade Alberta....

If/When Quebec finally suceeds in forming its own sovereign nation....will the US invade them then? If so, who/what is going to stop them from doing so?

Then they become part of the overall American problem, not the Canadian one.

They simply have to look north right now as it is, and realize they're better off without 'em.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I have one link for you:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/ku.html

Hmmm...A nation of 2.5 million people? A nation sitting on a butt load of money? A nation that has already been invaded for their energy resources?

Kuwait has a standing army, navy, air force, and national guard. And they spend 5.3% of their GDP on military expenditures, ranking them 16th among 173 nations with military expenditures.

Now, what were you saying about no need for an army?

This might come as a shock to you, but Alberta is not in the middle east, and it is not surrounded by dictatorships and religious fanatics.

In what will further shock you, Kuwait does not actually share a border with the US! I know, I was surprised too, but hey, you learn something new every day, don't you?

And you know what the kicker is? When Kuwait was invaded, the world rushed to its aid.

Are you going to compare Alberta's situation to Europe in the middle ages next?

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

This might come as a shock to you, but Alberta is not in the middle east, and it is not surrounded by dictatorships and religious fanatics.

In what will further shock you, Kuwait does not actually share a border with the US! I know, I was surprised too, but hey, you learn something new every day, don't you?

And you know what the kicker is? When Kuwait was invaded, the world rushed to its aid.

Are you going to compare Alberta's situation to Europe in the middle ages next?

Playing devil's advocate here - Kuwait isn't landlocked, making it easier to get into / access. Just sayin'...

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Muta

Playing devil's advocate here - Kuwait isn't landlocked, making it easier to get into / access. Just sayin'...

True, but that only reinforces my argument. Kuwait is open to any nation with a navy. Alberta is not.

I should also mention that Kuwait, with all it's military spending, was overrun in days by a much larger force.

I simply don't know where Ozy was trying to go by bringing up Kuwait. It is actually an excellent example of the futility of trying to maintain a standing army when bordered by a much larger force. If it wasn't for the world's response, Kuwait would be a province of Iraq today.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

True, yet inconsequential.

Alberta would form an army PFQ if Canada wanted to invade. Probably a lousy one. I'm quite sure International Law tends to follow that Canada's international treaties would continue to apply to Alberta, since Alberta as an entity was represented by Canada as a state actor. Therefore, any Canadian invasion would very quickly result in a US led NATO occupation of the region. There is no way an invasion of a recently seceeded country by democratic vote would be seen as anything but tyrannical and aggressive, and Canada would instantly be dealt with as such. In other words, Canada would never even think to do it. In fact, its so unlikely, it makes Alberta Separation look as likely as a sunrise.

Yes, the US would be pissed at any separation. Odds are, they'd be at the table making sure Canada and the new nation(s) of Alberta and whoever else leave don't descend into chaos.

Let me answer that with a question....

If Texas voted to separate from the U.S., do you think the U.S. would allow it to happen? If Wales voted to separate from Britain, do you think the U.S. would support Wales over Britain?

The west has a way of sticking togething and supporting each other. In the case of Kosovo, you have a population with a different ethnicicity and language than the mother country, and an area that underwent genocide - and even that split the world community of whether or not it was legitimate seccession. With Alberta, you have no history of genocide and a culture homogenous with the mother country. If Kosovo set a dangerous precedent, then Alberta would set an even more dangerous one - one that would have severe implications in every country.

Face it, every country has regions that think the grass is greener on the other side. So I stand by my point that the international community would not recognize it because of the implications it would have on nearly every country,

It's all moot anyway. Quebec, which probably has an even stronger case for independence, has never been able to get more than 50% support in the own province. There was even a question then if the U.S. would support that.

[CaptainCrunch]

Alberta's army would be awesome, every soldier would be issued a rifle, ammunition, two grendes, two days worth of rations, ground sheets, a pack of smokes and a case of beer.

Unfortunately during a U.S. invasion the Alberta Army would have driven right by the American's on its way to the Dakotas because they got an invite to a party.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Let me answer that with a question....

If Texas voted to separate from the U.S., do you think the U.S. would allow it to happen? If Wales voted to separate from Britain, do you think the U.S. would support Wales over Britain?

The west has a way of sticking togething and supporting each other. In the case of Kosovo, you have a population with a different ethnicicity and language than the mother country, and an area that underwent genocide - and even that split the world community of whether or not it was legitimate seccession. With Alberta, you have no history of genocide and a culture homogenous with the mother country. If Kosovo set a dangerous precedent, then Alberta would set an even more dangerous one - one that would have severe implications in every country.

Face it, every country has regions that think the grass is greener on the other side. So I stand by my point that the international community would not recognize it because of the implications it would have on nearly every country,

It's all moot anyway. Quebec, which probably has an even stronger case for independence, has never been able to get more than 50% support in the own province. There was even a question then if the U.S. would support that.

I don't disagree with you post, just wondering why they have such a strong case?