Alberta's Ticket Out? Poll

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Alberta would require a standing army, reservists, and basic airforce... if only for civil unrest, natural disasters, terrorism, etc. While I agree with T99 and Resolute that we don't need a huge army, we need enough to deal with basic domestic issues. Anything above and beyond that, like Canada as it stands, we would likely be under the US security umbrella.

Of course, most of the equipment would be Canada's. Assuming Alberta gets saddled with 10% of Canada's National Debt on its way out... Alberta would also be deserving of 10% of Canada's infrastructure. (Same with Quebec, except up debt/assets to 25%) That means planes, tanks, trucks, guns, etc. The issue would be manpower, but I'd be willing to bet that would be easier to accomplish than some may think.

In a country of 3.1 some odd million, the majority of the Military would be stocked with current members of the armed forces who are Alberta born as it would be unlikely that they would be allowed to continue to serve in Canada's armed forces. I'm also pretty sure that outside of a small regular force, the Alberta would prefer to run with a militia or reserve based volunteer military.

In total we could probably get away with about 15 to 20,000 under uniform.

In order to help the American's we could probably buy weapons and weapons systems off of them at a significant discount due to the current training land usage agreements for training sites being moved to Alberta from Canada.

It would also be a unique opportunity for Alberta to upgrade its equipment since it would be a fresh start. Give me a battalion of M1A1's, two divisions of motorized infantry, one battalion of artillary. A couple of squadrons of attack helicopters, two squadrons of transport helicopters, and 2 squadrons of f22 Raptors. Oh and while we're buying we'd like some B-2 Spirit bombers to threaten the Riders with.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I doubt the international community would even recognize such a thing. Alberta would be quickly occupied by the Canadian military and no one would care - not even the U.S.

You could be pretty damned sure that the international community, including the US, would recognize any province that legally separated from Canada.

And there are thousands of years of precedents for it.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Ok, so once this mythical nation invades Canada, you think that the Canadians and Americans are going to sit around and go "well, they're just going for Alberta, we'll let them pass."

We've seen nations who invade other countries for control of energy resources.

I would say sitting on one of the world's largest piles of money is certainly good reason for some.

[ikaris]

I can't believe people are even seriously suggesting this. I'm a Canadian first, an Albertan second. I love my country and this is just ridiculous. Talk about overreaction over even just the threat of something.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I doubt the international community would even recognize such a thing. Alberta would be quickly occupied by the Canadian military and no one would care - not even the U.S.

Doubtful.

If Alberta managed to gain international recognition, and Canada pulled an illegal occupation, the international community would crucify Canada. Trade would dry up, there would be international sanctions. And the American's would happily help Alberta out in exchange for some free Oil.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

We've seen nations who invade other countries for control of energy resources.

I would say sitting on one of the world's largest piles of money is certainly good reason for some.

And so we complete the circle - why would the Americans allow this?

[Muta]

Originally Posted by transplant99

But even if they had in the past...who was going to stop them? Please elaborate.

You're missing the point. If we were an independent nation, I would hope that there's some sort of organized resistance to foreign attack. FOR OUR OWN SAFETY.

...or do you dream of American M1 Abram tanks driving down your street, with the attitude, "oh well... we tried! Wait... I guess we didn't."

While it is unreasonable to suggest any type of 'Albertan military' to hold up against the American war machine for a sustained period of time given resources, it is necessary to form SOME sort of national protection.

Hell, even Lesotho has a defense force... and it's land locked in South Africa.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

In total we could probably get away with about 15 to 20,000 under uniform.



It would also be a unique opportunity for Alberta to upgrade its equipment since it would be a fresh start. Give me a battalion of M1A1's, two divisions of motorized infantry, one battalion of artillary. A couple of squadrons of attack helicopters, two squadrons of transport helicopters, and 2 squadrons of f22 Raptors. Oh and while we're buying we'd like some B-2 Spirit bombers to threaten the Riders with.

Dude we currently only have about 60,000 or so reg force.

A division is around 20,000 soldiers, battalion around 1300 (at least it was when I was in)

No way could Alberta support that force.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

We've seen nations who invade other countries for control of energy resources.

I would say sitting on one of the world's largest piles of money is certainly good reason for some.

Canada - We're going to invade Alberta
America - We're going to close down all of our industrial interests in Canada if you do.
Canada- We're just kidding big guy, don't be too hasty. Here have Nova Scotia.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ikaris

I can't believe people are even seriously suggesting this. I'm a Canadian first, an Albertan second. I love my country and this is just ridiculous. Talk about overreaction over even just the threat of something.

Is there a bit of rhetoric here? No question.

But this has been happening to Alberta my entire adult life and longer.

This coup is merely a catalyst for a renewal of something that has been talked about for at least 30 years.

Alberta is tired of getting shafted left, right and center by Liberal governments....now this is seen as a complete slap in the face, and peole get tired of it.

This not some "new' phenomenon....Alberta seperation has quite a bit of legacy, though support was never strong enough to actually move forward. Now? Maybe the Liberals are learning that one should let a sleeping dog lie.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

Dude we currently only have about 60,000 or son reg force.

A division is around 20,000 soldiers, battalion around 1300 (at least it was when I was in)

No way could Alberta support that force.

dude, I completely realize that, for the most part, I was having fun with it.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Muta

While it is unreasonable to suggest any type of 'Albertan military' to hold up against the American war machine for a sustained period of time given resources, it is necessary to form SOME sort of national protection.

The Canadian military couldn't hold up against the US for any sustained period of time either. But you're right. There needs to be some sort of protection.

In any case, it would likely be a minimum 10% of existing Canadian Forces staff/equipment/Alberta bases, probably buttressed by a few billion $ in initial military spending.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

dude, I completely realize that, for the most part, I was having fun with it.

that's good....'cause I am sure that you know, as an ex-soldier that all this talk is treason.......and we know what happens to traitors..........

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Wow, I guess that explains why East Timor and Kosovo aren't recognized by the international community. Oh wait, yes they are.

You also think the US wouldn't freak out that their "safest" significant supply of foreign oil is in a civil war? You think they wouldn't react?

I don't think so.

It wouldn't be at civil war because Alberta doesn't have a military or means to fight back. I doubt there would even ever be more than 30% support among the civilian population.

As for Kosovo and East Timor, I could point out several more examples of regions that declared themselves independent and never received international recognition... including areas that have distinct histories, languages, and cultures. Not to mention, Kosovo and East Timor each had recent genocides... they had real problems compared to what "Alberta separatists" have - which are extemely trivial in comparison.

Alberta oil is just as accessible to the U.S. no matter what. They aren't going to support political and economic instability on the continent with their largest trading partner. For them, the status quo would be much more preferable.

[ComixZone]

Yes. I'm not willing to sit by and watch Alberta get screwed by the East for the next (undisclosed amount of time). It's bad for Canada, it's really bad for Alberta, and it's just flat out disgusting.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

that's good....'cause I am sure that you know, as an ex-soldier that all this talk is treason.......and we know what happens to traitors..........

We get rewarded with part leaderships and senate seats?

[LChoy]

I suppose some people would love it if Alberta became the Saudi Arabia of the Western Hemisphere. They are sitting on top huge oil reserves, has a National Guard but backed up by the American military (as is their government).

No thanks for me, Canadian first always

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

We get rewarded with part leaderships and senate seats?

nice well played..............

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

And so we complete the circle - why would the Americans allow this?

I have one link for you:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/ku.html

Hmmm...A nation of 2.5 million people? A nation sitting on a butt load of money? A nation that has already been invaded for their energy resources?

Kuwait has a standing army, navy, air force, and national guard. And they spend 5.3% of their GDP on military expenditures, ranking them 16th among 173 nations with military expenditures.

Now, what were you saying about no need for an army?

[transplant99]

Looks like it has already started...

Yikes.

Anyone know who this guy is?

http://www.separationalberta.com/