Alberta's Ticket Out? Poll

[Slava]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Pensions, policing and taxation are the three big ones. These are all provincial jurisdiction.

Right.....but where are the infringements? AFAIK everything there is basically status quo?

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by redforever

i believe within this year or the next.

2012

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Slava

Right.....but where are the infringements? AFAIK everything there is basically status quo?

afaik ?

There are benefits to bringing them "in house", monetary is certainly one of them. Having more control over our own future and directly impacting Albertans is another.

[wpgflamesfan]

Yes if we could take everything west of ontario with us including NWT and Yukon

[Slava]

Originally Posted by First Lady

afaik ?

There are benefits to bringing them "in house", monetary is certainly one of them. Having more control over our own future and directly impacting Albertans is another.

AFAIK = As Far As I Know...sorry about that.

but really there is no infringement here. The WAP just wants to threaten to take their ball (which is really the provincial money) and go home. There is no dispute over any of these items right now, and this is just a politically expedient time to try to leverage some control, right?

[4X4]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Alberta is the province that has earned itself a chair at the table and it damn well isn't getting one. Respond to that, please.

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

A list of provincial powers. Directed at another poster. In complete avoidance of a battle that he initiated.

C'mon, man...

Are you here to talk about the topic or are you here to just point out technicalities? You've gotten me all riled up, now you're just going to turtle?

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Slava

AFAIK = As Far As I Know...sorry about that.

but really there is no infringement here. The WAP just wants to threaten to take their ball (which is really the provincial money) and go home. There is no dispute over any of these items right now, and this is just a politically expedient time to try to leverage some control, right?

Ahhh no.... this has always been our stance.

[Calgaryborn]

Well if the Provinces were to go to provincial police forces it would take planning and building. 2012 should be just about enough time.

[Ronald Pagan]

Originally Posted by 4X4

C'mon, man...

Are you here to talk about the topic or are you here to just point out technicalities? You've gotten me all riled up, now you're just going to turtle?

I'm not starting a battle. You can believe what you want about Alberta's supposed lack of power.

Maybe I'm just testy seeing so many falsities thrown around over the last couple of days. The claim that BC and Sask don't pay equalization was what I corrected. Sorry for the delivery if it was snarky. It just seems that any old schmoe can just post blatantly incorrect info on this board and so long as it is in support of right wing ideology or the Conservatives, all is well.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Ahhh no.... this has always been our stance.

Sure, fair enough. But we were talking about how Stelmach should be standing up for the provinces rights, and basically there are no rights being infringed upon to stand up for....that is all my point is.

I don't support Stelmach at all, but I know that I don't want the Premier to start fights with the Feds just because we might get a sweeter deal somehow. That is a large part of the reason why Quebec politicians are so disliked in Alberta.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Well if the Provinces were to go to provincial police forces it would take planning and building. 2012 should be just about enough time.

There have already been some steps in that direction with the provincial sheriffs. The PC's maintain though, that they will not completely replace the RCMP.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

I'm not starting a battle. You can believe what you want about Alberta's supposed lack of power.

Maybe I'm just testy seeing so many falsities thrown around over the last couple of days. The claim that BC and Sask don't pay equalization was what I corrected. Sorry for the delivery if it was snarky. It just seems that any old schmoe can just post blatantly incorrect info on this board and so long as it is in support of right wing ideology or the Conservatives, all is well.

My fingers burn. How badly I want to throw your own words in your face. If this is your story, nighty night.

[Ronald Pagan]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

Tell that to newfoundland, quebec, alberta, ontario...probably bc at some point in time.

What manual you're reading that from must have been locked in time capsule in 1960 or so.

I can't think of any examples off the top of my head.

When did these provinces get publicly involved in Federal partisan politics?

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Slava

Sure, fair enough. But we were talking about how Stelmach should be standing up for the provinces rights, and basically there are no rights being infringed upon to stand up for....that is all my point is.

I don't support Stelmach at all, but I know that I don't want the Premier to start fights with the Feds just because we might get a sweeter deal somehow. That is a large part of the reason why Quebec politicians are so disliked in Alberta.

They are disliked because they continual feed off of the federal teat; not because they have their own QPP, police and collect their own taxes.

To take these items over would not involve a fight; they are ours to be had.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

I can't think of any examples off the top of my head.

When did these provinces get publicly involved in Federal partisan politics?

Look up anythign said by Danny Williams in the last federal election. And he said lots.

[Ronald Pagan]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

Look up anythign said by Danny Williams in the last federal election. And he said lots.

Fair enough. He was against the Conservatives but the situation then and now is different.

That was about resource revenue. He was defending a previous federal agreement to keep their share of the resource rents. Harper proposed to change that under the new equalization program and he went ballistic. He stuck up for his provincial powers.

With this situation, although a giant debacle, there are no provincial powers at stake, as of yet.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by Festus

If the Liberal/Bloc/NDP Coalition succeeds in taking over Parliament, would you support (join, contribute, vote for) a movement for an independent Alberta?

Yes [ ]
No [ ]

No.

I am a Canadian. Not an Albertan. Albertan is not a nation.

And really, the concept of the coalition government scares people enough to consider renouncing their citizenship with a G8 country? How spoiled some Albertans have gotten...

[Thunderball]

There's only two ways I'd support Alberta secession:

1. Alberta becomes the 51st US State
2. Alberta merges with BC, Sask and maybe the NWT/Yukon.

As it stands, if we went it alone, we'd be very reliant on the good faith of one of our two new neighbors. A very unenviable position that would end with economic disparity, or being forced to rejoin Canada at a heavy cost, or joining the US with a diminished bargaining position.

A landlocked nation with 3.4m people wouldn't be a great thing. Though neither is living in a hypothetical NDP/Bloc dominated country that sees Alberta as its personal bank account...

However, we'd need a real catalyst to even think about it, and the push would have to come from the PC party or the Alberta Liberals... not some pie in the sky separatist party with no pedigree.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by llama64

No.

I am a Canadian. Not an Albertan. Albertan is not a nation.

And really, the concept of the coalition government scares people enough to consider renouncing their citizenship with a G8 country? How spoiled some Albertans have gotten...

Technically speaking, Canadian isn't a nation either.

Canada prides itself on being a nation of nations.

Could not Alberta claim a nationhood on a similar premise?

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

Fair enough. He was against the Conservatives

With this situation, although a giant debacle, there are no provincial powers at stake, as of yet.

I don't disagree with the second part. I don't see any reason for Stelmach wading in at this point.

But he certainly could in future, as has been done in the past.