Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by ikaris

Are you serious? The coalition got together because of that. While I don't agree with it, they essentially don't trust the Conservatives anymore to try and govern like a minority should, and why should they? the first confidence vote that Cons do this? You reap what you sow.

OK, assuming for a moment that we all believe that there was no talk of bringing down the gov't prior to this.... is this really the way to govern?

Why do we have a House of Commons, and have debates in there if at the first sign of disagreement the answer is to bring down the gov't?

The correct course of action is to debate this in the House, and have each of the opposition party leaders state that they and all of their party will vote against it. That sends Harper back to the drawing board to draft a bill that will be accepted by the House.

Maybe you do something like this if there is some major issue being proposed, like if they wanted to do away with CPP or something like that. But IMHO it is irresponsible to not debate this issue that represents less that 1/10 of a percent of the national budget.

And for me I see this level or irresponsibility, and that makes me afraid of what those irresponsible people will do once they are in power.

[Jade]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

These two parties are too proud and have a rich history. There is no way they would ever run under one banner.

They will work together now but whenever another election is called, they will be at each other's throats again.

Unless they lose again, in which case they will be back to being best friends trying to take what they haven't earned. AGAIN.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

How the hell did May power-whore her way into this? Everyone on all sides are giving a fringe party with no influence or power too much say in things.

Why not. She has almost as many votes as Duceppe.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

How many times do you need to be told that this "coalition" was planned by the NDP and Bloq BEFORE the mini-budget was presented? It was actually planned two friggen days after the Oct election.

Seriously, man. We get it. You hate Stephen Harper and you're pissed off about losing the last two elections... but ignoring the bits and pieces of reality that don't support your opinions is not going to win you any support.

The coalition as it stands now didn't come into effect until the liberals were brought on board which they decided to do after the funding issue; which then non-leader Harper got scared and went reactionary over and removed. He didn't do it for pragmatic reasons.
At least that's the way i read it.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

How many times do you need to be told that this "coalition" was planned by the NDP and Bloq BEFORE the mini-budget was presented? It was actually planned two friggen days after the Oct election.

You can repeat it as much as you like but the fact is the Liberals weren't involved. They are the key factor in any coalition. So to me, any pre planning by some fringe groups is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Seriously, man. We get it. You hate Stephen Harper and you're pissed off about losing the last two elections... but ignoring the bits and pieces of reality that don't support your opinions is not going to win you any support.

Right, and you doing the same isn't going to win you any support either.

[Jade]

Originally Posted by ikaris

Right. This was non-partisan.

As I said, it's as non-partisan as it was when the liberals put it in place. Funny how acting in the fashion that most benefits your party is only okay for the liberals.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

and we get it. You hate anything and everything Liberal.

Nope. Not at all. Every election, I vote for the party I think presented the best platform, and/or who didn't piss me off the most.

I voted for Chretien in his first election.

The thing I hate is being slapped in the face and having my vote taken away from me against my will.

I supported the Conservatives trying to bring down the Martin Government, because it was really just the Chretien Government and I was sick and tired of the lies and the scams.

I don't support this "coalition" trying to take down the Harper Government because it's unwarranted, and is transparently about nothing but power. If this was after the January budget, and there were some serious issues that I thought were going to be detrimental to this country, then I would be all for replacing the Government.

I would absolutely NOT be in favour of an NDP or Bloq Government, nor would I be in favour of a Dion-lead Liberal Government. Ignatieff, maybe.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Jade

As I said, it's as non-partisan as it was when the liberals put it in place. Funny how acting in the fashion that most benefits your party is only okay for the liberals.

When Chretien introduced this legislation, it was to eliminate corporate and union influence from the fundraising process. Damn corrupt Liberals!

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Flame On

The coalition as it stands now didn't come into effect until the liberals were brought on board which they decided to do after the funding issue; which then non-leader Harper got scared and went reactionary over and removed. He didn't do it for pragmatic reasons.
At least that's the way i read it.

Of course he removed it for pragmatic reasons. He removed it in order to remain "in power" so to speak and be able pass at least some parts of his platform. He removed it to make parliament work under Tory leadership as was the mandate given to him by the country.

That's what the House is supposed to do in a minority siutation. The minority government comes to the House with some legislation they'd liked passed. The opposition says "hold on now wait a minute we don;t like that and we will vote against it even if it is a confidence matter and we are actually serious about it this time." The minority government then says "well crap they are serious so let's go back to the drawing board and remove some of these things that are less important to us but important to them."

But the NDP and Liberals have gone far beyond showing they are serious and won't duck out of the House when confidence votes come up this time (well the liberals). Far beyond that. They got the changes and continued on down the line when they themselves have no real alternative plan.

[J pold]

Oh God. Mike Duffy just said that May not only could be a senator, but a minister. The minister of the Environment.

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/coal...ut/#clip117882

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by ikaris

When Chretien introduced this legislation, it was to eliminate corporate and union influence from the fundraising process. Damn corrupt Liberals!

wouldn't that have been taken care of by the cap on donations size?

[Jade]

Originally Posted by ikaris

You can repeat it as much as you like but the fact is the Liberals weren't involved. They are the key factor in any coalition. So to me, any pre planning by some fringe groups is irrelevant.



Right, and you doing the same isn't going to win you any support either.

If other peoples speculation isn't fact, neither is yours. Stop stating that you know the liberals weren't involved: YOU DON"T. We don't know either way. But boy did they get on this remarkably fast (given how politics work) for nothing to be in place beforehand. All we know for sure is that the liberals did know that they offer was already out there. But I'm sure it never even crossed their mind until this horrible, unconstitutional amendment that the tories were going to hold MPs hostage to force through to the detriment of the whole country came up.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by habernac

lively debate going on at the House of Commons right now if you have a TV nearby.

I'm watching right now. Very "spirited".

[Jade]

Originally Posted by ikaris

When Chretien introduced this legislation, it was to eliminate corporate and union influence from the fundraising process. Damn corrupt Liberals!

It was to line their pockets just like all the money they stole at the time. Corruption is expensive. This helped them fund it.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Jade

If other peoples speculation isn't fact, neither is yours. Stop stating that you know the liberals weren't involved: YOU DON"T. We don't know either way. But boy did they get on this remarkably fast (given how politics work) for nothing to be in place beforehand. All we know for sure is that the liberals did know that they offer was already out there. But I'm sure it never even crossed their mind until this horrible, unconstitutional amendment that the tories were going to hold MPs hostage to force through to the detriment of the whole country came up.

It's pretty easy to back up my position because there is no evidence to support otherwise. Do you have evidence to support your speculation?

[ernie]

Originally Posted by ikaris

When Chretien introduced this legislation, it was to eliminate corporate and union influence from the fundraising process. Damn corrupt Liberals!

Correction...to eliminate corporate and union influence all the while making sure they still had money flowing into the party bank account.

They "reformed" the corporate and union donations and influence but in doing so they realised they were going to kill there own fundraising so brought in the money per vote legislation.

Just as I'm sure Harper wanting to eliminate that had nothing to do with hamstringing his opponents I'm sure the Liberals brought it in with no thought towards the fact they stood to gain the most from such legislation.

[transplant99]

They have no reason to believe that the Conservatives aren't going to try this nonsense throughout their leadership and they've had enough.

Well then...since the Cons have a MINORITY (as I keep getting told repeatedly) then vote AGAINST it and bring it to a halt..


See how simple that is...but no...its the Cons that wont compromise.

What a joke.

[HotHotHeat]

Man, politicians sure embarrass themselves. You have to love that token feminist that all the sudden started going off on equal pay. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for equal rights, but I don't think too many people care about that right now.

The Conservatives are making the argument that this will essentially be a separatist coalition. Hard to deny it.

Also, Dion is like a poorly tempered little boy little boy when he talks. Canadians do not like him. Period.

[Jade]

Originally Posted by ikaris

It's pretty easy to back up my position because there is no evidence to support otherwise. Do you have evidence to support your speculation?

We both have equal evidence. Why is your speculation on stronger ground? How about this. You show me the evidnence that they weren't already involved and I will believe you. Until then I will stick with saying I don't know, as I always have. Like it or not, liberals don't get to sit on an untouchable pedestal.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Jade

We both have equal evidence. Why is your speculation on stronger ground? How about this. You show me the evidnence that they weren't already involved and I will believe you. Until then I will stick with saying I don't know, as I always have. Like it or not, liberals don't get to sit on an untouchable pedestal.

The evidence is quite clear in implicating the NDP and Bloc. Anything else is speculation. I guess only the conservatives get to be on an untouchable pedestal.