Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[troutman]

Originally Posted by loob job

This may have been posted, i'm not going to read through 47 pages. But how are we now a democratic country. The country voted for PC and now Dion is the PM (almost). So next election are they going to lineup five people then tell us who is going to be PM. Unbelievable. This makes Canada look like a joke, and i have no biased either way to what party should run this country.

IIRC, only about 30% of the country voted PC, and only 20% of eligible voters.

This is what you get with a multi-party system (common in Europe).

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by loob job

But how are we now a democratic country. The country voted for PC and now Dion is the PM (almost). So next election are they going to lineup five people then tell us who is going to be PM. Unbelievable. This makes Canada look like a joke, and i have no biased either way to what party should run this country.

There are plenty of other democratic countries that have coalition governments and the country didn't vote for PC, more Canadians voted for CPC then any other party, but they didn't get a majority.

That being said I don't know how many countries have their government formed by a wimp, a traitor and a hypocrite.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Would a party resigning immediately from the House trigger an election, I mean if they completely walked out?

Helloooooo constitutional crisis.

I suppose Prime Minister Duceppe would tell Dion to just call byelections. Afterall, the coalition ends the moment the writ is dropped, and both Duceppe and Layton the First know that once this parliament ends, their hopes of power are over.

Not sure if the GG can, at that point, unilaterally declare that government has failed and force a general election.

However, as stated, such a move plays far too much on the east-west distrust.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

I believe it would. Typically government is not supposed to function with vacant seats, usually a by-election is called, but when its enough to constitute a lack of responsible government, an election has to be called.

Problem with that strategy is Joe Sixpack and the Central Canada Dufus Club are likely to blame the Conservatives for the election and not the coalition.

It would be pretty hard not to blame them. Also, is there precedent for this? I would think it would be a pretty dangerous one to set. It would basically mean that no government (even a majority) is stable anymore and if you think there was regional divides before....

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by troutman

IIRC, only about 30% of the country voted PC, and only 20% of eligible voters.

This is what you get with a multi-party system (common in Europe).

It was 38%, which is closer to 40% than 30%.

...and 38% is still more than the 26% that voted Liberal, or 18% that voted Socialist or 10% that voted Separatist.


(and no, combing the three party's percentages is not allowed in this dicussion, since not one single Canadian was asked to vote on a Liberal/Socialist/Separatist Coalition party)

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by loob job

I'm also glad the country spent billions (or millions) of dollars on having an election and then reversing it seven weeks later. Unbelievable.

At the time, I think there were more people interested in the American election than our election.

If another election were help, I bet that would be different.

Although I'm not sure how that interest would translate. I know I was pretty cynical before this whole debacle, and everything ALL the parties have done have eroded my faith even further.

Turf all the leaders - all of them. Each and every one are in it for their own interests.

[J pold]

It still baffles me that a man who doesn't have the confidence of his own party, who ran the worst Liberal campaign in history who some even accuse of being the worst Liberal leader in history could become our PM.

I’m just incredibly sick and tired of the way Western Canada gets treated in Ottawa. It’s clear to everyone on both sides that the polices laid out by this coalition will further alienate Alberta and the rest of Western Canada.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Totally off topic....I wonder how many pages this thread will run....and what is the record?

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

It would be pretty hard not to blame them. Also, is there precedent for this? I would think it would be a pretty dangerous one to set. It would basically mean that no government (even a majority) is stable anymore and if you think there was regional divides before....

Yeah... though Canada is due for another sitting to sort out the Constitution.

However, if they did it under the auspices of a national emergency, citing the government lacks an electoral mandate... it would still be messy, but the precedent bar would be set a lot higher.

[kermitology]

This is a very unfortunate turn of events in my opinion. This country is in need of stability and thoughtful consideration of how to proceed in this time of economic uncertainty.

While it is certainly not against the constitution, I do not think it is fair representation of the wishes of Canadians. I'm not a Conservative supporter, I haven't voted for them in the past four elections, but this just isn't right.

Let Canadians decide in another election where the Liberals, NDP, and Bloc all run under the platform, that should there not be a clear majority government, they will form a coalition government, and provide Canadians an idea of what to expect from such a coalition government.

[corporatejay]

While I agree that this is common in europe and other countries around the world where governing by coalition is understood, this is really the first time Canadians have been faced with this (Borden in the 1910s doesn't count).

I do'nt think anyone who voted Bloc/NDP/LIB thought they were voting for something like this. I voted Con the last two elections (and Lib the one before that) and if Harper had formed a coalition with the NDP and the BLOC I would have been furious. (one that usurps the party that won the election).

[transplant99]

Last night I emailed someone who absolutely everyone here is familiar with as a former politician at the provincial level and asked more than a couple questions related to this farce.

One of the questions I asked was why the Bloc would agree to this without theoratically having any say in policy shaping, but would agree to never voting against any possible confidence motion.

The response was...

"with the Governor General being the figurehead for the Queen, there was no possibility she could recognize the coalition as a viable government with the seperatists having a say in policy making. ___________(persons name i have omitted for reasons but is a former NDP MP) is somewhat an expert on constitutionality as well as parliamentary procedure. He would know that she could use any Bloq involvement to form policy as a reason to disallow the coalition and would at the request of Mr. Harper then dissolve parliament and call an election imediately"

and a bunch of other stuff.

So in essence the reason the 3 headed monster did things the way they did, was to avoid a scenario that could have brought the house of cards around them come tumbling down before it ever had a foundation.

Believe this or not, does anyone now question that this was ANYTHING but a power-grab disguised as a lack of confidence in a government elected by the people 6 weeks ago and unable to ever present a budget that (apparently would of included some of the Liberal "wants") would likely have passed after much debate???

Im stunned. i shouldn't be, but I am.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by loob job

I'm also glad the country spent billions (or millions) of dollars on having an election and then reversing it seven weeks later. Unbelievable.

It was Harper who wanted to force another election with that ridiculous proposal. He wanted another election, too bad he went too extreme and this is where we are at now.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

It was Harper who wanted to force another election with that ridiculous proposal. He wanted another election, too bad he went too extreme and this is where we are at now.

I'd be willing to bet that a majority of Canadians agree with removing taxpayer-funded subsidies for political parties.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by J pold

It still baffles me that a man who doesn't have the confidence of his own party, who ran the worst Liberal campaign in history who some even accuse of being the worst Liberal leader in history could become our PM.

I’m just incredibly sick and tired of the way Western Canada gets treated in Ottawa. It’s clear to everyone on both sides that the polices laid out by this coalition will further alienate Alberta and the rest of Western Canada.

This has nothing to do with Ottawa lashing out against Western Canada. Honestly, this division is all in the heads of people in Western Canada.

The West could have all voted Liberal, but if the poltical balance was the same and all the leaders were the same, the same thing would be happening.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

It was Harper who wanted to force another election with that ridiculous proposal. He wanted another election, too bad he went too extreme and this is where we are at now.

No, we're where we are at now becuase of Dion, Layton and Duceppe.

Harper might not have played his hand as well as he could have, but he isn't the one tossing democracy out the window.

[Bertuzzied]

Green Party backs coalition. May may get a senate seat.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../politics/home

How many of you who are outraged with this Coalition voted Green last election? The Green Party would have ceased to exist with Harper's proposed bill.

This is why Harper will NEVER win a majority in Canada. He will never win over the Ontarians who see him as too extreme.

[CaptainCrunch]

How the hell does she get a senate seat, she can't even win a seat in the house. MAybe she should focus on raising funds for her party. I mean there are so many greens out there, they should be able to get billions.

Lets hope in the next election she doesn't get a seat in the debate, she didn't bring any value to the last one except for a ruder shrill voice screaming at Harper.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

No, we're where we are at now becuase of Dion, Layton and Duceppe.

Harper might not have played his hand as well as he could have, but he isn't the one tossing democracy out the window.

Was Canada an undemocratic country before? Because it's not like this coalition option was forced in place this year.

Also for all you Liberal fearmongers. What harm did the Liberal party who had a majority government for 8 years under Chretien do to Alberta? (Besides give us that horrendous poster of Bronnconnier shaking Chretiens hand all over Calgary.)

[troutman]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

It was 38%, which is closer to 40% than 30%.

...and 38% is still more than the 26% that voted Liberal, or 18% that voted Socialist or 10% that voted Separatist.


(and no, combing the three party's percentages is not allowed in this dicussion, since not one single Canadian was asked to vote on a Liberal/Socialist/Separatist Coalition party)

54% > 38%

Why does it matter if Canadians were asked to vote on a coalition? It is implicit in our political system that this can happen.