Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Why do I get the feeling that the Recession just got worse?

Canadian politics hardly have an effect in Canada, let alone the global economy. The recession was caused by problems outside of our influence and won't be cured or made worse by this. Saying that it will be made worse by this would be like saying that the recession which happened during Mulroney's reign was his fault, or that the end of the recession during Chretien's reign was solely because of him. If you were going to make a link between recessions and which party is in power, then you should welcome a Liberal government. That would be silly of course...

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Seriously. Farmer Ed did more harm to the oil and gas industry in Alberta then this coalition can ever do to it.

That's true, but if you add anything else to the revenue/taxation pile it will drive industry out of this province so fast it'll make your head spin. With the low price of oil and the high provincial revenue scheme already in place, any more cash taken out of this province by the feds will equal even more lost jobs.

I would think any coalition government would be smart enough to see that, but I'm not holding my breath.

[metallicat]

I've written to the GG, tried to call my MLA (nobody there), what else can I do? Seriously, I feel completely deflated right now.

All that is left is to wait for the GG to make her decision. What a day it will be if she decides to call for an election.

[Nancy]

Originally Posted by ikaris

Honestly, the energy industry is getting destroyed right now in Alberta with the price of oil and with the current royalty scheme. What else can the federal government really do?

You can't steal profits if they're already getting hit hard.

2 words: Carbon Tax.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

I'm not about to recap all that happened in the 1980s, but the 1980s are about to be replayed with a vengence. I'm feeling too disgusted right now to have the stomach to provide a recount of what happened then and what will likely happen now. Just watch and take notes.

If you recall exactly, the price of oil was very high going into it in the late 70s. The NEP was a blatant cash grab from Alberta. This time, the price of oil is not high at all. Please explain how this is going to be replayed with a vengeance. I would like to understand the economics of this.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Canadian politics hardly have an effect in Canada, let alone the global economy. The recession was caused by problems outside of our influence and won't be cured or made worse by this. Saying that it will be made worse by this would be like saying that the recession which happened during Mulroney's reign was his fault, or that the end of the recession during Chretien's reign was solely because of him. If you were going to make a link between recessions and which party is in power, then you should welcome a Liberal government. That would be silly of course...

I never said we caused it, I just said it got worse based on left leaning quasi socialist 'economic stimulus'. I guess I should I have been clearer.

[corporatejay]

Remember all those Social Studies classes where the teacher told you the GG was a figure head. Looks like she holds a whole assload of cards now. Suck it Mr/Ms. ____ you were totally wrong.

[Jade]

Recession come from both internal and external elements. Sure a lot of it is out of our control, but there are internal factors. The natural disaster about to seize control of the government can only make things worse. You can bet there will be a great deal of money wasting involved in appeasing all of the parties involved, at a time when controlled spending is necessary. Investors looking at the country will take one look at what's happened today and run as fast as they can in the other direction, making matters that much worse.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

They're talking about a huge economic stimulus package.....and my feeling is it ain't coming from Quebec.

The west stands to gain from a stimulus package as much as anyone - especially if it targets forestry and mining which are huge in BC and Saskatchewan.

For a country that runs a huge surplus, I don't see how it could hurt.

[Nancy]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

I've written to the GG, tried to call my MLA (nobody there), what else can I do? Seriously, I feel completely deflated right now.

All that is left is to wait for the GG to make her decision. What a day it will be if she decides to call for an election.

Maybe hold a protest at Pearson International airport and close it down, Bangkok style.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

That's true, but if you add anything else to the revenue/taxation pile it will drive industry out of this province so fast it'll make your head spin. With the low price of oil and the high provincial revenue scheme already in place, any more cash taken out of this province by the feds will equal even more lost jobs.

I would think any coalition government would be smart enough to see that, but I'm not holding my breath.

Well Chretien had 2 majority governments and didn't do anything to us. The Liberals have learnt their lesson with the NEP. Farmer Ed........ God i can't believe he is in power here.

[C_Rush]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Canadian politics hardly have an effect in Canada, let alone the global economy. The recession was caused by problems outside of our influence and won't be cured or made worse by this. Saying that it will be made worse by this would be like saying that the recession which happened during Mulroney's reign was his fault, or that the end of the recession during Chretien's reign was solely because of him. If you were going to make a link between recessions and which party is in power, then you should welcome a Liberal government. That would be silly of course...

Then why was Harper's "wait and see" approach so terrible that the coalition needed to steal parliament? The political decisions the government makes don't affect how the economy (and by extension, a recession) reacts? Or am I misunderstanding you?

[FanIn80]

There needs to be some rioting in Ottawa. Like, stat.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Well Chretien had 2 majority governments and didn't do anything to us. The Liberals have learnt their lesson with the NEP. Farmer Ed........ God i can't believe he is in power here.

As well, leading during one of the most prosperous times in Canadian history. If Harper had been in power then, we'd be in Iraq!

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Remember all those Social Studies classes where the teacher told you the GG was a figure head. Looks like she holds a whole assload of cards now. Suck it Mr/Ms. ____ you were totally wrong.

I was wondering- is this something that should/could be taken all the way to the Queen?

I wonder if our official British Monarch would have a different opinion that our French-Canadian GG regarding this situation.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Sit back and watch and learn then.

And I didn't just say they were going to attack the oil and gas industry did I? I said they were going to bankrupt Alberta. Their raid on Alberta will go far beyond just the oil and gas industry. They'll take all they can get, and then they'll take some more just for punitive measures.

What a bizarre thing to say... what exactly will the feds "take"? Do you really think this is some anti-Western cabal? Weird.

Here's a hint. Most politicians honestly try to do what they think is right most of the time. Often they make mistakes, but we make a bigger one when we assume they're being evil and devious all the time. Why did Bush invade Iraq? He thought it was the right thing to do. Why did FDR cut spending in the late 30s, sending the country deeper into recession? He thought it was the right thing to do. Both were huge blunders--but they weren't evil.

With a very few exceptions, politicians aren't evil people. Politicians are just people like anybody else--they are well meaning for the most part, and are people who dedicate their lives to public service when generally they could make more money doing something else.. I'm not a fan of Harper, but at least I can give him credit for THAT. If you can't comprehend that you'll never understand politics. There's no more naive position than the assumption that politicians you didn't vote for are evil, nefarious people with secret agendas who want to steal your money.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by C_Rush

Then why was Harper's "wait and see" approach so terrible that the coalition needed to steal parliament? The political decisions the government makes don't affect how the economy (and by extension, a recession) reacts? Or am I misunderstanding you?

You must be misunderstanding, because I never said I expect Harper to fix the recession or anything like that. I just wanted to know what his plan was to deal with the repurcussions of the recession.

Just because the feds can't cure the recession, action is still needed to deal with the consequences of the recession. Harper wasn't giving people a lot of confidence with laid out a plan to deal with those.

Something has to be done to hold us up... maybe that is an economic stimulus plan, and maybe it's some other kind of plan, but right now, I'll take the guys with ideas over the guys with none - so if Harper has some good ones, he would be better off sharing them sooner rather than later.

[C_Rush]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

You must be misunderstanding, because I never said I expect Harper to fix the recession or anything like that. I just wanted to know what his plan was to deal with the repurcussions of the recession.

Just because the feds can't cure the recession, action is still needed to deal with the consequences of the recession. Harper wasn't giving people a lot of confidence with laid out a plan to deal with those.

Something has to be done to hold us up... maybe that is an economic stimulus plan, and maybe it's some other kind of plan, but right now, I'll take the guys with ideas over the guys with none - so if Harper has some good ones, he would be better off sharing them sooner rather than later.

So holding onto money and not jumping in with desperate spending schemes until we get a measure of how things are shaking out was a bad plan? I'm still not following....

[Jade]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

What a bizarre thing to say... what exactly will the feds "take"? Do you really think this is some anti-Western cabal? Weird.

Here's a hint. Most politicians honestly try to do what they think is right most of the time. Often they make mistakes, but we make a bigger one when we assume they're being evil and devious all the time. Why did Bush invade Iraq? He thought it was the right thing to do. Why did FDR cut spending in the late 30s, sending the country deeper into recession? He thought it was the right thing to do. Both were huge blunders--but they weren't evil.

With a very few exceptions, politicians aren't evil people. Politicians are just people like anybody else--they are well meaning for the most part, and are people who dedicate their lives to public service when generally they could make more money doing something else.. I'm not a fan of Harper, but at least I can give him credit for THAT. If you can't comprehend that you'll never understand politics. There's no more naive position than the assumption that politicians you didn't vote for are evil, nefarious people with secret agendas who want to steal your money.

You mean other than the western oil during the NEP? They took the oil from alberta and gave it to ontario for well under the global price. What wasn't needed was then sold internationally for the going rate, with the federal government getting the profits over and above the rate they bought it for. When alberta challenged the law, a judge said that it was indeed an illegal policy. And yet no attempt at reparation was ever made.

I don't believe that politicians are necessarily evil, but when it comes to the liberals intentions towards the west, history shows a repeated tendancy in their policies to treat us as though we are of lesser importance.

[C_Rush]

"44% of people voted for Liberals or NDP, giving us more popular support than the Conservatives." Screw you Bob Rae, they didn't vote for a Liberal/NDP alliance government.