Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[Ronald Pagan]

In all seriousness though... corporate tax cuts are a stimulus plan. Anything past that is well advised to wait until Obama releases his plan for reasons that other posters have described. Wheeling up a dumptruck full of money to GM, Ford and Chrysler will do nothing if the US don't save them. It also doesn't help that the CAW refuses to negotiate. Even that is beside the point right now.

It's a supply side stimulus plan. Supply-side is out of favour because it has been the status quo economic policy for 20 years now. In recessions, supply-side economics has a mixed bag of performance. Most economists (almost all) are advocating against supply side policies right now.

[driveway]

Results from the October election:

Bloc - 50 seats, 1,379,565 votes, 10.0 % of the vote.

Liberals - 76 seats, 3,629,990 votes, 26.2% of the vote.

NDP - 37 seats, 2,517,075 votes, 18.2% of the vote.

CPC - 143 seats, 5,205,334 votes, 37.6% of the vote

An argument can be made that a coalition government consisting of the NDP and Liberals would have a mandate to govern, considering they earned a total of 6,147,065 votes and 44.4% of the popular vote.

While their combined seat-total of 113 is still less than the conservatives, the addition of the Bloc's 50 seats brings a three-way coalition into majority territory, and adds another 10% of the popular vote, bringing such a coalition into the realm of being the clear choice of the majority of Canadians.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by kevman

For what it's worth...

"The Canadian Press reported a source saying mid-Monday that the parties have agreed to present a $30-billion stimulus package that would offer substantial aid to the troubled auto and forestry industries."
- CBC.ca

Is anyone really surprised that the Liberal/NDP stimulus package would largely benefit the auto and forestry?

Ironically, forestry is probably the most environmentally damaging industry around, regardless of how much "reforesting" they do. Young trees don't purge CO2 like mature ones do. Not to mention that its not very lucrative to begin with. Where's the Green Shift now?

[Nancy]

Originally Posted by kevman

For what it's worth...

"The Canadian Press reported a source saying mid-Monday that the parties have agreed to present a $30-billion stimulus package that would offer substantial aid to the troubled auto and forestry industries."
- CBC.ca

Is anyone really surprised that the Liberal/NDP stimulus package would largely benefit the auto and forestry?

I'm not opposed to infrastructure investment programs that create long term benefits like they had in the '30s, but this is just flushing money down the toilet.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by driveway

Results from the October election:

Bloc - 50 seats, 1,379,565 votes, 10.0 % of the vote.

Liberals - 76 seats, 3,629,990 votes, 26.2% of the vote.

NDP - 37 seats, 2,517,075 votes, 18.2% of the vote.

CPC - 143 seats, 5,205,334 votes, 37.6% of the vote

An argument can be made that a coalition government consisting of the NDP and Liberals would have a mandate to govern, considering they earned a total of 6,147,065 votes and 44.4% of the popular vote.

While their combined seat-total of 113 is still less than the conservatives, the addition of the Bloc's 50 seats brings a three-way coalition into majority territory, and adds another 10% of the popular vote, bringing such a coalition into the realm of being the clear choice of the majority of Canadians.

I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.

-William F. Buckley Jr.

If we lived in Israel or Italy, I'd say sure. But Canadians didn't vote for a coalition party comprised of two fringe parties.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by driveway

An argument can be made that a coalition government consisting of the NDP and Liberals would have a mandate to govern, considering they earned a total of 6,147,065 votes and 44.4% of the popular vote.

Such an argument could be made, but it would be a pretty stupid one to make.

44% of Canadians did not vote in favour of the NDP controlling economic portfiolios.

44% of Canadians did not support Dion or Ignatief as Prime Minister.

44% of Canadians did not vote in support of a Quebec-first policy.

[Jade]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Another thing that needs to be addressed is the general tone from the left that "Harper started it, now there's no other option".

Ya he did start it, then backed down when the opposition...opposed. Isn't that exactly how a minority government is supposed to work?

So he's backed down from his stupid idea (yes, it was stupid) and has promised that the budget will address our country's economic situation...but the NDP/Liberals still want to go ahead with the coalition?

For what reason? Harper's backed down.

...no, seriously. For what reason should they continue trying to steal power 6 weeks after an election?

The way this is coming together, it would appear that stealing power was the plan all along. The leaked transcripts make it sound like this was being planned even before anything came out from the conservatives. The liberals obviously had no plans to compromise, and instead found a way to take the power they feel they are entitled to.

Personally, I think that the liberals owed it to voters to at least try to make the elected government work before they got to this stage, but clearly they aren't really concerned with what the voters want.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

It's a supply side stimulus plan. Supply-side is out of favour because it has been the status quo economic policy for 20 years now. In recessions, supply-side economics has a mixed bag of performance. Most economists (almost all) are advocating against supply side policies right now.

I agree that its not the most aggressive, or even the most successful... but it still does return money to corporations who, in fact, see their ledgers improve from it, and because of that, feel less need to cut overhead (staff). When companies start jettisoning staff, whats when things go from bad to worse, which I'm sure most people here know.

Until we know what the US wants to do, anything more could be a boondoggle. Our banking sector is strong, and there's no subprime crisis. There's no need to jump the gun.

[Jade]

Originally Posted by driveway

Results from the October election:

Bloc - 50 seats, 1,379,565 votes, 10.0 % of the vote.

Liberals - 76 seats, 3,629,990 votes, 26.2% of the vote.

NDP - 37 seats, 2,517,075 votes, 18.2% of the vote.

CPC - 143 seats, 5,205,334 votes, 37.6% of the vote

An argument can be made that a coalition government consisting of the NDP and Liberals would have a mandate to govern, considering they earned a total of 6,147,065 votes and 44.4% of the popular vote.

While their combined seat-total of 113 is still less than the conservatives, the addition of the Bloc's 50 seats brings a three-way coalition into majority territory, and adds another 10% of the popular vote, bringing such a coalition into the realm of being the clear choice of the majority of Canadians.

And when a see on my ballot a NDP/liberal/bloc candidate, I'll give you that argument. Until then, it looks to me like non of these parties even came close to winning the popular vote.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Such an argument could be made, but it would be a pretty stupid one to make.

44% of Canadians did not vote in favour of the NDP controlling economic portfiolios.

44% of Canadians did not support Dion or Ignatief as Prime Minister.

44% of Canadians did not vote in support of a Quebec-first policy.

BTW: The TSX drop has virtually nothing to do with this political strife. The factors for this drop were present before this, and are ongoing.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think people are worrying over nothing. Governments come and go, and for the most part, everything stays the same.

.

Dude... I dont know if you are old enough to remember or not but after living in Calgary in the early 80's, this statement is purely not true.

The NEP that the Liberals implemented absolutely destroyued the Alberta economy in general and Calgary specifically. People lost jobs, homes, and self esteem by the bucket load.

Government matters...a whole bunch. And seeing the possibility of an even more leftist group in the NDP selling their souls to gain power with a puppet regime the liberals are now should scare the absolute bejezuz out of everyone not living in Quebec. Since the Bloq will be the ones wielding all the power they ill get whatever they want from puppetmaster Layton. Its already on record he will do what is best for his party above all else.

You want to call this fear-mongering? Go ahead. But i have seen this movie before and the ending is nothing short of gory.

[Nancy]

Originally Posted by Slava

Aside from the fact that all of these percentages are in the minority, all of the headlines this morning are that Iggy will not be the PM and will not support the coalition.

In fact the issue appears that 50/77 Liberals will not support this coalition.

BTW: The TSX drop has virtually nothing to do with this political strife. The factors for this drop were present before this, and are ongoing.

Not doubting you, but do you have a source for this...

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Slava

Aside from the fact that all of these percentages are in the minority, all of the headlines this morning are that Iggy will not be the PM and will not support the coalition.

In fact the issue appears that 50/77 Liberals will not support this coalition.

BTW: The TSX drop has virtually nothing to do with this political strife. The factors for this drop were present before this, and are ongoing.

If true...very good news for everybody except Layton.

Have you a link to something where this was iterated? Just curious.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

It's a supply side stimulus plan. Supply-side is out of favour because it has been the status quo economic policy for 20 years now. In recessions, supply-side economics has a mixed bag of performance. Most economists (almost all) are advocating against supply side policies right now.

Link, textbook, article, etc.?

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Slava

Aside from the fact that all of these percentages are in the minority, all of the headlines this morning are that Iggy will not be the PM and will not support the coalition.

In fact the issue appears that 50/77 Liberals will not support this coalition.

BTW: The TSX drop has virtually nothing to do with this political strife. The factors for this drop were present before this, and are ongoing.

Can we please stop calling him Iggy? Seriously. Around here, that name is taken.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by driveway

Results from the October election:

Bloc - 50 seats, 1,379,565 votes, 10.0 % of the vote.

Liberals - 76 seats, 3,629,990 votes, 26.2% of the vote.

NDP - 37 seats, 2,517,075 votes, 18.2% of the vote.

CPC - 143 seats, 5,205,334 votes, 37.6% of the vote

An argument can be made that a coalition government consisting of the NDP and Liberals would have a mandate to govern, considering they earned a total of 6,147,065 votes and 44.4% of the popular vote.

While their combined seat-total of 113 is still less than the conservatives, the addition of the Bloc's 50 seats brings a three-way coalition into majority territory, and adds another 10% of the popular vote, bringing such a coalition into the realm of being the clear choice of the majority of Canadians.

WHAT?! clear choice of the majority of canadians?
Using this logic there are a number of combinations that would add up to being the 'clear choice' of the majority of canadians:
CPC + NDP
CPC + Liberal
CPC + Bloc
CPC + NDP + Liberal
CPC + Liberal + Bloc
CPC + Liberal + Bloc + NDP
NDP + Liberal + Bloc

You claim that the last one is the clear choice of the majority... why? All you did was add up some votes for different parties.
Wouldn't the 'clear choice' of the majority at least involve the party that won the most seats and got the highest % of the popular vote? Yet you chose the only option on the list that didn't included that party.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by driveway

Results from the October election:

Bloc - 50 seats, 1,379,565 votes, 10.0 % of the vote.

Liberals - 76 seats, 3,629,990 votes, 26.2% of the vote.

NDP - 37 seats, 2,517,075 votes, 18.2% of the vote.

CPC - 143 seats, 5,205,334 votes, 37.6% of the vote

An argument can be made that a coalition government consisting of the NDP and Liberals would have a mandate to govern, considering they earned a total of 6,147,065 votes and 44.4% of the popular vote.

While their combined seat-total of 113 is still less than the conservatives, the addition of the Bloc's 50 seats brings a three-way coalition into majority territory, and adds another 10% of the popular vote, bringing such a coalition into the realm of being the clear choice of the majority of Canadians.

Yes, but can you guarantee everyone of those Lib/NDP/Bloc voters would have still voted that way if they knew there would be a Lib/NDP/Bloc coaltion? The truth is there are a lot of right leaning Liberal's that are scared of the NDP and would rather vote Conservative than have the Liberals and NDP working together.

Just curious, what's your opinion on MP's crossing the floor?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Nancy

Not doubting you, but do you have a source for this...

I totally misread that...I thought that I read this in both the Post and Herald this morning but clearly it was before my morning coffee. I was very surprised to see so many comments about him being PM in waiting this morning, and now it all makes sense!

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Can we please stop calling him Iggy? Seriously. Around here, that name is taken.

I just call him that because I am too lazy to look up how to spell it properly. seriously though, you're just going to have to get over it. The two are unrelated.

[FanIn80]

So... If I combine my net worth with Bill Gate's net worth, I should be able to get a loan to buy the Ferrari I've always wanted.

Come on, isn't that how it works? Just pick a couple numbers, add them together and then make my argument? Who cares about reality!

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Slava

I just call him that because I am too lazy to look up how to spell it properly. seriously though, you're just going to have to get over it. The two are unrelated.

Well then call him Sedin or something. Come on man, you're on a Calgary Flames message board. When people here see "Iggy" there's only one person we think of.