Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[transplant99]

im calling it a coup de tat ....no matter how many here want to keep telling me it is something different because it is legal.

A group of politicians who were also given a mandate to work with the elected party, have been planning an overthrow of said party since at least a couple days after said politicians were even elected.

Just because it's "legal" does NOT make it right nor anything close to what SHOULD happen.

They are overthrowing this government because they dont like what they see....so how are they working any more with the Cons(I have ZERO problem being labeled that unlike some of the more sensitive posters..sniff) are working with them

[CaptainCrunch]

I'm hoping that the governor general is smart enough to see that the Blocs involvement in this coalition will have negative consequences to the stability and governorabilty of Canada and throw this coalition out on its ass.

I've always thought that Alberta should play the same game as Quebec. Make rumblings about leaving if we don't get money from the government, make demands or we'll hold a seperation vote. Quebecs got it right, the squeeky wheel gets the grease and the power.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Harper has a minority Government. In other words he needs the support of at least one other party at all times to rule for any length of time. This isnt US politics where the President can do what he pleases. IF Harper had gained a majority he could rule carte blanche.

Right but isn't a Liberal-NDP coalition and even weaker minority?
If the Bloc doesn't officially sign on I don't see how this is any different.

If there were only 3 parties and the 2 parties added up to make a majority (like the Quebec before the election on Dec 8) then it would make sense to me.
How can 110ish seats rule parilament and represent us internationally/

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Right but isn't a Liberal-NDP coalition and even weaker minority?
If the Bloc doesn't officially sign on I don't see how this is any different.

If there were only 3 parties and the 2 parties added up to make a majority (like the Quebec before the election on Dec 8) then it would make sense to me.
How can 110ish seats rule parilament and represent us internationally/

It can't thats why the Bloc becomes the power behind the government, and puts itself in a hammer position over all policies of the NDP/Liberal minority.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Right but isn't a Liberal-NDP coalition and even weaker minority?
If the Bloc doesn't officially sign on I don't see how this is any different.

If there were only 3 parties and the 2 parties added up to make a majority (like the Quebec before the election on Dec 8) then it would make sense to me.
How can 110ish seats rule parilament and represent us internationally/

All 3 of the non-ruling parties need to agree to form the coalition or it wont work. The deal then needs to be passed by the Governor General before its accepted.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'm hoping that the governor general is smart enough to see that the Blocs involvement in this coalition will have negative consequences to the stability and governorabilty of Canada and throw this coalition out on its ass.

I've always thought that Alberta should play the same game as Quebec. Make rumblings about leaving if we don't get money from the government, make demands or we'll hold a seperation vote. Quebecs got it right, the squeeky wheel gets the grease and the power.

The GG is from Quebec....doubtful she will stop the coalition.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Cheese

The GG is from Quebec....doubtful she will stop the coalition.

Then she is putting her and Quebec's interests ahead of Canada's interests.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Cheese

All 3 of the non-ruling parties need to agree to form the coalition or it wont work. The deal then needs to be passed by the Governor General before its accepted.

Yes that's what I mean.

"The Bloc Québécois would not officially be a part of the coalition"

[ernie]

I would hope that the GG would realize that a coalition of three parties needs all three parties votes to pass something and that the one party that is not truly included in the coalition holds the hammer in all policy decisions. The NDP and Liberals have to go to the Bloc for approval. A party that has its intended prupose to get more power to Quebec with a preferred destabilization and or pissing off of the rest of the country. They can not go to the Tories for approval as in order to get the approval they had to have just finished telling her that they can't work with the Tories in the House. So the hammer and power goes to the Bloc. Lovely.

[Devils'Advocate]

Jean has a tough call to make.

Either we have a coalition between these three parties or we have an election.

An election will return much the same result - and the La Presse poll showing that Conservative support in Quebec has nose-dived might indicate a smaller Conservative minority. We will be $300million poorer and in the exact same position. So then we will need to have an election. And then we will be $300M poorer and in the exact some position. So then....

Somebody is going to have to work with somebody to give us a working federal government. The Conservatives first step was to antagonize the entire opposition and thus indicated that they are not willing to work with any other parties. So somebody else is going to have to try.

[Ronald Pagan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Then she is putting her and Quebec's interests ahead of Canada's interests.

It's in Canada's interest to have a Government not another election. The GG will deliberate on the feasibility of a coalition government if the opportunity does present itself.

In reality, so long as the coalition demonstrates with a detailed plan how they intend to govern while maintaining the confidence of the house then the GG is required to accept that. It has nothing to do with her being from Quebec. Please people, can we be just a little more sophisticated than that?

[You Need a Thneed]

If the Bloc is not an official part of the coalition, all this talk is nonsense, PERIOD. There cannot be a coalition that has less seats combined then another party.

It doesn't even make sense. If it was possible, why would they need a coalition? Couldn't the Liberals just declare themselves a "one party coalition?"

[FanIn80]

The only thing this is going to do is send us directly into the soup lines. In less than a week, we will go from being the economically strongest country in the G20, to being the weakest.

We had a few good years of not having to worry about our Government embarrassing us on the world stage. Looks like that was too much for the Liberals and Socialists to take. Now Canadians are going to have to go back to sticking our heads in the sand and pretending we don't know who Dion or Layton are.

"Stephane who?... Jack? Jack who?" "Never heard of them."

*plop*

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Jean has a tough call to make.

Either we have a coalition between these three parties or we have an election.

An election will return much the same result - and the La Presse poll showing that Conservative support in Quebec has nose-dived might indicate a smaller Conservative minority. We will be $300million poorer and in the exact same position. So then we will need to have an election. And then we will be $300M poorer and in the exact some position. So then....

Somebody is going to have to work with somebody to give us a working federal government. The Conservatives first step was to antagonize the entire opposition and thus indicated that they are not willing to work with any other parties. So somebody else is going to have to try.

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

It's in Canada's interest to have a Government not another election. The GG will deliberate on the feasibility of a coalition government if the opportunity does present itself.

In reality, so long as the coalition demonstrates with a detailed plan how they intend to govern while maintaining the confidence of the house then the GG is required to accept that. It has nothing to do with her being from Quebec. Please people, can we be just a little more sophisticated than that?

Quebec does NOT run this country. It's that simple, and any "votes" that the CPCs loose in Little France will be more than made up for in the rest of the country.

If there is an election, there will be a majority. This will piss off even the apathetic fools and get them off their asses to show up. There will be a majority, and the only people who think otherwise are Socialist/Separatist supporters.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

An election will return much the same result - and the La Presse poll showing that Conservative support in Quebec has nose-dived might indicate a smaller Conservative minority.

And that would quickly change should either a coalition government or an election happen. And frankly, even if conservative support was down in Quebec, it still wouldn't take away the inevitable majority away from the conservatives. The Liberals and NDP would lose so many seats elsewhere in the country, that any seats gained in Quebec wouldnt matter.

[ernie]

I'm also not convinced over the Quebec poll numbers right now. Liberal support may simply be up because Dion was going to be jettisoned. There was nothing really done at this time to give a reason for a drop in Conservative support. And I'm not surprised that for now Quebecers are happy with the prospect of a coalition as they know with the Bloc as the deciding factor they will likely get what they want.

If the coalition fails, further evidence comes out that this was being planned well before last week, the new liberal leader is selected etc etc etc, more of the Chretisn inner circle surface the poll numbers will change. And right now I can see the poll numbers changing elsewhere Canada...and not in the NDP or Liberals favours. A big chunk of the liberal party are blue liberals and they will not put up with getting into bed with the NDP.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

So much for the reports that Ignatieff was unhappy with this. Rae confirming on Canada AM this morning, that no discussion regarding a leader other than Dion was even considered in the ongoing talks.

This is getting more and more depressing. What are the odds that the Governor General surprises us all and calls for an election? Probably not good.

I stated this in the original thread, but I am almost certain that GG Jean will accept the coalition, and that Harper, Layton and Dion all know this. The Liberals and NDP, particularly the Liberals, are in no position to stage an election right now. They don't have the money, and I suspect the electorate would not be too kind to either party over this. I don't think they would be playing hardball like this unless they know they can grab power without having to face an election to do so.

If it's known that the GG will accept the coalition, that would also explain why Harper is backtracking on the subsidy and other issues (banning public service strikes). Harper's ego doesn't allow him to back off easily, so I'm a little surprised he's doing this, unless he knows where this is headed if it winds up in the GG's lap. It also would indicate he must know or believe this won't go to an election. I think an election would be in his favour and he wouldn't be back pedaling if he thought an election would be the outcome of it all.

Edit: Plus GG Jean is a Liberal from Quebec that Paul Martin appointed. She and her husband are/were known separatist sympathizers. If one were prone to believe in conspiracy theories, you could create a whopper out of this one.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

And that would quickly change should either a coalition government or an election happen. And frankly, even if conservative support was down in Quebec, it still wouldn't take away the inevitable majority away from the conservatives. The Liberals and NDP would lose so many seats elsewhere in the country, that any seats gained in Quebec wouldnt matter.

Honestly, I feel that if this goes to an election, Harper will be left holding the political bag of poop in this case--I very much doubt that he will be picking up more seats than he won 6 weeks ago. Where are these seats going to come from? Quebec? Not likely. The maritimes? Don't bet on it. Ontario? A liberal party under new leadership will likely make modest gains in Ontario.

If the Conservatives thought they could win a January election, they wouldn't be waving the white flag so hard.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Jean has a tough call to make.

Somebody is going to have to work with somebody to give us a working federal government. The Conservatives first step was to antagonize the entire opposition and thus indicated that they are not willing to work with any other parties. So somebody else is going to have to try.

Except that the Conservatives stepped back on the election funding issue and are looking at moving the budget up to Jan 27th.

The Liberal's this morning moved thier comments from "The Conservatives don't have a plan, and aren't working with us" To The government is governing on the fly by changing all of this stuff to avoid this coalition stuff.

If the Liberal's were so concerned about the budget and the economy they wouldn't have not shown up for key votes like the budget last year, instead 11 out of 94 Liberal's showed up for the budget vote, and they continued to do this throughout last years government.

Now they suppossedly grow a backbone when the government goes after their funding.

They also present an assinine spend/tax heavy program thats going to do nothing but hurt the economy instead of help it.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

I stated this in the original thread, but I am almost certain that GG Jean will accept the coalition, and that Harper, Layton and Dion all know this. The Liberals and NDP, particularly the Liberals, are in no position to stage an election right now. They don't have the money, and I suspect the electorate would not be too kind to either party over this. I don't think they would be playing hardball like this unless they know they can grab power without having to face an election to do so.

If it's known that the GG will accept the coalition, that would also explain why Harper is backtracking on the subsidy and other issues (banning public service strikes). Harper's ego doesn't allow him to back off easily, so I'm a little surprised he's doing this, unless he knows where this is headed if it winds up in the GG's lap. It also would indicate he must know or believe this won't go to an election. I think an election would be in his favour and he wouldn't be back pedaling if he thought an election would be the outcome of it all.

Edit: Plus GG Jean is a Liberal from Quebec that Paul Martin appointed. She and her husband are/were known separatist sympathizers. If one were prone to believe in conspiracy theories, you could create a whopper out of this one.

Then hopefully after the election, Harper ties a can to her butt and sends her on her way.