Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

The general opinion is that the Conservatives are not addressing the economic situation faced by the country and the opposition parties believe that action must be taken to avert further economic crisis and the Conservatives appeared wholly unwilling to do such a thing.

Added to that, the Conservatives did their best to irritate the opposition parties with the massive funding cuts to political parties (when the opposition parties were in bad shape financially) and a ban on allowing federal civil servants to strike.

That's what I know of the situation.

The finance minister already said they are willing to do anything to help Canadians, just because a stimulus package isn't coming now, doesn't mean it won't in the future. Do you honestly believe they will sit back and watch this country's economic status crumble without doing anything? And like I said, they reversed their decision to cut that funding, so that should have no basis whatsoever in this overthrow.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Well, I guess I have two thoughts.

1. This isn't the end of the world. If it results in a stable majority then I guess there is good with the bad. It's certainly not ideal, and I sure wish Harper had found a way to work with the rest of parliament instead of overplaying his hand.
2. This is in my view a huge blunder for the Liberals. If they govern their way out of this recession, they may come out OK--but the optics are already very bad. If they also end up being a failed government, the party is toast for at least a decade. Very risky play, and I'm a little surprised that they don't see it. My hope is it's a bluff.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by peter12

It's just hilarious as Nekhara and others have gone on and on about the Conservatives "reliance" on big business. What do you think the outcry would be if Harper was recorded saying, "Well, I met with the chairmen of every single oil company. I can tell you they are sympathetic and supportive etc..."

Big Labour wants this for the infrastructure dollars.

Sorry, I support the NDP, unions and left-leaning policies. Just who I am, I am not going to deny it.

Many people here support big business including oil companies, to each their own.

[flamey_mcflame]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

This is such a strange situation... I guess we can't say Canadian politics isn't interesting anymore.

I can guarantee you that it will be even more interesting tomorrow. High level meetings by all parties. Harper and his clones will definitely be making calls to Iggy and Rae. I wouldn't trust any announcements until tomorrow at the earliest.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

The general opinion is that the Conservatives are not addressing the economic situation faced by the country and the opposition parties believe that action must be taken to avert further economic crisis and the Conservatives appeared wholly unwilling to do such a thing.

Added to that, the Conservatives did their best to irritate the opposition parties with the massive funding cuts to political parties (when the opposition parties were in bad shape financially) and a ban on allowing federal civil servants to strike.

That's what I know of the situation.

That does seem to be the idea. Whether your Blue, Red, Light Blue, Orange or Green though, doesn't it make sense to work with the Americans on a stimulation package than just toss something out there? I want to see what Obama chooses to do, both with the auto industry and economy in general, before my PM launches a stimulus plan.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

The general opinion is that the Conservatives are not addressing the economic situation faced by the country and the opposition parties believe that action must be taken to avert further economic crisis and the Conservatives appeared wholly unwilling to do such a thing.

Added to that, the Conservatives did their best to irritate the opposition parties with the massive funding cuts to political parties (when the opposition parties were in bad shape financially) and a ban on allowing federal civil servants to strike.

That's what I know of the situation.

Except that Harper and the Conservatives have said repeatedly that the budget thats released in 6 weeks will contain all of the recommendations of the provinces and the G20 meetings, so any economic stimulis would occur at the budget.

They've said that there's no point in doing panic moves now especially in throwing money into industries. Whats the use of throwing money at the auto industry if the American Government decides not to bail them out.

The Liberal's and NDP want knee jerk money injections that won't do any good until we actually see the budget.

This is more about them losing their funding and having the gross incompetency and inability to fund raise.

As much as I don't want an election, it has to happen, the Liberal's and NDP need to be destroyed over this.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

The general opinion is that the Conservatives are not addressing the economic situation faced by the country and the opposition parties believe that action must be taken to avert further economic crisis and the Conservatives appeared wholly unwilling to do such a thing.

Added to that, the Conservatives did their best to irritate the opposition parties with the massive funding cuts to political parties (when the opposition parties were in bad shape financially) and a ban on allowing federal civil servants to strike.

That's what I know of the situation.

I've got to ask a Dipper this.

What do you know of economics? Seriously. I am not making fun of you. In your mind, what would be the proper response from a minority government now, instead of two months down the road when we can work with the new American administration?

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

The finance minister already said they are willing to do anything to help Canadians, just because a stimulus package isn't coming now, doesn't mean it won't in the future. Do you honestly believe they will sit back and watch this country's economic status crumble without doing anything? And like I said, they reversed their decision to cut that funding, so that should have no basis whatsoever in this overthrow.

I don't believe that the Conservatives would have watched the economy falter. I don't like them but they do a decent job of running the country. I was just reporting what I had read about the position that the opposition parties are taking in the matter.

[Resolute 14]

This is all kind of cool, I think. I never thought I'd be living in a country that suffered a coup d'etat. We're living in historic times, my friends.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by peter12

I've got to ask a Dipper this.

What do you know of economics? Seriously. I am not making fun of you. In your mind, what would be the proper response from a minority government now, instead of two months down the road when we can work with the new American administration?

Again, not my views. I am reporting what I am reading from the opposition parties and from articles, and the like.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Well, I guess I have two thoughts.

1. This isn't the end of the world. If it results in a stable majority then I guess there is good with the bad. It's certainly not ideal, and I sure wish Harper had found a way to work with the rest of parliament instead of overplaying his hand.
2. This is in my view a huge blunder for the Liberals. If they govern their way out of this recession, they may come out OK--but the optics are already very bad. If they also end up being a failed government, the party is toast for at least a decade. Very risky play, and I'm a little surprised that they don't see it. My hope is it's a bluff.

Fine, but do you really want a government that's holy defendant on the bloc to stay in power. Its fine to have to deal with the bloc on a deal by deal basis, but the Liberals and NDP are basically going to have to do everything that the Bloc wants or the government falls and those two parties are looking at a conservative majority coming out of the next election.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Fine, but do you really want a government that's holy defendant on the bloc to stay in power. Its fine to have to deal with the bloc on a deal by deal basis, but the Liberals and NDP are basically going to have to do everything that the Bloc wants or the government falls and those two parties are looking at a conservative majority coming out of the next election.

This is my biggest issue. Being dependent on the Bloc to pass anything through the house could be a big problem... the Bloc would be granted more power than I am comfortable with them having.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

Again, not my views. I am reporting what I am reading from the opposition parties and from articles, and the like.

No, I was serious. What is your understanding of economics and what in your mind would justify the NDP being part of a coalition government ?

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

The general opinion is that the Conservatives are not addressing the economic situation faced by the country and the opposition parties believe that action must be taken to avert further economic crisis and the Conservatives appeared wholly unwilling to do such a thing.

Added to that, the Conservatives did their best to irritate the opposition parties with the massive funding cuts to political parties (when the opposition parties were in bad shape financially) and a ban on allowing federal civil servants to strike.

That's what I know of the situation.

1. It's been 6 weeks since the election. Canadians elected the PCs because they were NOT going to jump at shadows and come up with knee-jerk bandaid solutions. We elected them because we wanted our Government to take it's time and make proper, educated decisions. Harper has been doing exactly what he campaigned on and what he WON on. He's been meeting with the G20 and top financial advisers, and he's already stated that the next budget (in January) will have ALL of the recommendations of the G20 as well as recommendations from the top financial advisers.

2. It was not a "massive" subsidy cut. It was a $30 million dollar cut to campaign subsidies that wouldn't have even affected anyone for 4 more years. That was plenty of time for the Liberals, Separatists and Socialists to get their parties in order and start rounding up campaign funds.


The reason this is happening, is because Layton has never ever even come close to getting the power he's spent his entire life chasing. He started brokering this deal with the Separatists immediately after the last election ended. This has been the plan all along: if he can't electively win power, then he's going to take it! It had to be done now, though, because they couldn't risk Harper actually presenting a budget that actually works.

The subsidy thing only gave Layton the trigger he needed to pull the Liberals on side. The only way they would go all the way on this, is if the Liberals got the PM. The only way the Separatists would stay on side, is if that Liberal PM wasn't Dion.

So... Ignatief gets to be PM, Layton gets to be Deputy PM and the Separatists get whatever they hell the ask for until this coup dissolves from its own internal infighting and we get another election.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Fine, but do you really want a government that's holy defendant on the bloc to stay in power. Its fine to have to deal with the bloc on a deal by deal basis, but the Liberals and NDP are basically going to have to do everything that the Bloc wants or the government falls and those two parties are looking at a conservative majority coming out of the next election.

No--what I WANT is for Harper to swallow his pride and somehow find 10 more votes so that we don't have to deal with this nonsense. If he can't or won't, then my enthusiasm for another election isn't very high, and I don't think many Canadians want to be going back to the polls in January. It's clear that this government isn't stable enough to last much more than 18 months either way, but I'd like to see Harper find a way to work with at least enough opposition MPs that something gets done during this time.

Failing that, I guess we see what the other guys can do. I'd be lying if I said I was enthusiastic about it--but I still think they're bluffing. They must be--because there's no logical end game here for them.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by flamey_mcflame

I can guarantee you that it will be even more interesting tomorrow. High level meetings by all parties. Harper and his clones will definitely be making calls to Iggy and Rae. I wouldn't trust any announcements until tomorrow at the earliest.

Stop calling him Iggy. For the love of God, knock that sh*t off.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Fine, but do you really want a government that's holy defendant on the bloc to stay in power. Its fine to have to deal with the bloc on a deal by deal basis, but the Liberals and NDP are basically going to have to do everything that the Bloc wants or the government falls and those two parties are looking at a conservative majority coming out of the next election.

Quite simply, there is really no way this can result in a stable majority. Not at all possible given the wildly different agendas for each party.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by peter12

No, I was serious. What is your understanding of economics and what in your mind would justify the NDP being part of a coalition government ?

Perfect, thanks. I'd like to extend that question to all pro NDPers out there.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Fine, but do you really want a government that's holy defendant on the bloc to stay in power. Its fine to have to deal with the bloc on a deal by deal basis, but the Liberals and NDP are basically going to have to do everything that the Bloc wants or the government falls and those two parties are looking at a conservative majority coming out of the next election.

Exactly. I just don't see how its possible to play out any other way.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by peter12

No, I was serious. What is your understanding of economics and what in your mind would justify the NDP being part of a coalition government ?

I understand economics as well as anyone who has no formal training or schooling in the field.

I am commenting on a message board about things I have read in articles... that's it.

The NDP have, in recent times, always been the party that the Big Two (Con, Lib) turn to, to help them try and defeat the ruling minority or even form coalitions. (It should be noted that Harper tried to form a coalition with the NDP and Bloc in 2005)

I have no further justification... the justification is politics because that is the game being played in Ottawa right now.