Conservatives To Slash Federal Funding of Political Parties [Update-CPC backs down]

[Jade]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

"We're not running a deficit. We have planned a realistic scenario. We've got conservative budget estimates. We've got a modest platform that doesn't even fill the existing fiscal room that we have and we have plenty of flexibility in how we phase it. So that's our policy. We're not going into deficit." Steve Harper, October 2008

"This country will not go into recession next year and will lead the G-7 countries," Steve Harper, October 2008

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...d-088ed126e8c1

It appears he did promise that we would not go into deficit and that we would not be in a recession next year.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...ion_081005/200

"A Scotiabank report is forecasting recessions for both Canada and the United States that could last well into 2009."

We will have to wait to see if Harper broke his promise on the recession, but he already has on the deficit.

Impressive how you have the year end numbers before the year is even over. Federal budgets are annual, not monthly, which is why we don't go through this once a month. Besides, not operating in a deficit means that based on projections when they put the budget together they were not expected to have a deficit. I don't know if they will have one in the end or not, I guess we'll see. As for the recession, we may be in the best position of the G7 countries, provided the political uncertainty resulting from this attempted power grab doesn't hurt us too much.

[metallicat]

You know what, the Liberals should get John Mcallum to run their party. That would be awesome.

[CaptainCrunch]

Looks like the Bloc are losing their balls, and they're going to allow Dion to be named as the Prime Minister if this goes through.

What a joke.

Hopefully at this point this drives to an election that breaks the Liberals and the NDP financially.

This is a joke.

[metallicat]

You know what's really sad about all of this, is Canadians elected a minority government. Wouldn't a Liberal-NDP coalition essentially rid this country of that? Harper's CPC, would be rendered incapable of bringing down the government, despite having been elected to lead us.

Sad. THAT isn't democracy.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Jade

Impressive how you have the year end numbers before the year is even over. Federal budgets are annual, not monthly, which is why we don't go through this once a month. Besides, not operating in a deficit means that based on projections when they put the budget together they were not expected to have a deficit. I don't know if they will have one in the end or not, I guess we'll see. As for the recession, we may be in the best position of the G7 countries, provided the political uncertainty resulting from this attempted power grab doesn't hurt us too much.

As a former employee of the Minister of Finance, I can tell you we do go through it once a month, the Parliamentary Budget Officer provides a monthly update, usually 2-3 months after that month has passed.

Impressive how I have the year end numbers?? If one follows the news they would know the numbers.

April through June - 1.2 Billion dollar surplus
July - Prentice sells wireless spectrum to boost the numbers, we run a deficit this month as well
August - we run a 1.74 billion deficit, offset by the wireless spectrum sale
September numbers and onward not out yet.

Flaherty will postphone Mr. Page's update, but September will have to come out in the next couple weeks I would imagine, probably right before Christmas when Canadian are not paying attention

[peter12]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

As a former employee of the Minister of Finance, I can tell you we do go through it once a month, the Parliamentary Budget Officer provides a monthly update, usually 2-3 months after that month has passed.

Impressive how I have the year end numbers?? If one follows the news they would know the numbers.

April through June - 1.2 Billion dollar surplus
July - Prentice sells wireless spectrum to boost the numbers, we run a deficit this month as well
August - we run a 1.74 billion deficit, offset by the wireless spectrum sale
September numbers and onward not out yet.

Flaherty will postphone Mr. Page's update, but September will have to come out in the next couple weeks I would imagine, probably right before Christmas when Canadian are not paying attention

You sound like you want a recession.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

You know what's really sad about all of this, is Canadians elected a minority government. Wouldn't a Liberal-NDP coalition essentially rid this country of that? Harper's CPC, would be rendered incapable of bringing down the government, despite having been elected to lead us.

Sad. THAT isn't democracy.

Canadians elected a coalition government, not a Tory government. Any bill that the Tories would want passed would have to be in the form of a coalition government. The Tories can avert this by changing the economic update to reflect the wishes or some of the wishes (enough to get the votes) of another party.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

You know what's really sad about all of this, is Canadians elected a minority government. Wouldn't a Liberal-NDP coalition essentially rid this country of that? Harper's CPC, would be rendered incapable of bringing down the government, despite having been elected to lead us.

Sad. THAT isn't democracy.

The only way that this coalition works is if the NDP and Liberals lick the Blocs boots. On their own the Conservatives have more seats then the Libs and NDP combined. So any illusion that this coalition isn't going to be very attentive to Quebecs demands is foolish.

I think its a joke that a goof that can't even run his party or an election and is clearly out of touch with Canadians as a whole could end up running the government unelected.

[Dion]

CFCN opinion polls:

What do you think of opposition plans to defeat the Harper government?

Good for the country (20 %)133

Bad for the country (76 %)516

Won't make a difference (4 %)30

---------------------------------

Do you think Canada needs a multi-billion dollar stimulus package?

Yes (16 %)340

Yes, but not quite yet (31 %)664

No (53 %)1144

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Canadians elected a coalition government, not a Tory government. Any bill that the Tories would want passed would have to be in the form of a coalition government. The Tories can avert this by changing the economic update to reflect the wishes or some of the wishes (enough to get the votes) of another party.

This is exactly correct. The Conservatives are a minority so they need to appeal to one of the opposition groups regardless. This is how it worked in the last cycle as well.

If the Conservatives thought they could just bully through legislation without some sort of consensus, then they are obviously learning that this is not possible.

Even still, I'm not sure why the Liberals would oppose what the Conservatives are proposing. It seems the only point of contention is the fact that a stimulus package is not in this mini budget. I like that the Conservatives are wanting to wait and see; it seems prudent.

[Jade]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

As a former employee of the Minister of Finance, I can tell you we do go through it once a month, the Parliamentary Budget Officer provides a monthly update, usually 2-3 months after that month has passed.

Impressive how I have the year end numbers?? If one follows the news they would know the numbers.

April through June - 1.2 Billion dollar surplus
July - Prentice sells wireless spectrum to boost the numbers, we run a deficit this month as well
August - we run a 1.74 billion deficit, offset by the wireless spectrum sale
September numbers and onward not out yet.

Flaherty will postphone Mr. Page's update, but September will have to come out in the next couple weeks I would imagine, probably right before Christmas when Canadian are not paying attention

Contradictory much? If the numbers for september are not even out yet, how are the 'well infomed' getting the numbers through the end of december?

Yes the numbers come in monthly, but the budget as a whole is done in an annual fashion, hence the lack of monthly budgets being passed in parliment. If as a full year, everything included we are in the negative, then yes, we ran a deficit. Until then, you don't know.

[SebC]

Yeah, I don't understand why the liberals are doing this... the Conservatives have backed off the political funding aspect of the bill, now the Liberals need to back off as well. They could have spun that into a victory stepping up to protect a democratic system where campaigns are fought with ideas instead of fundraising... now they're talking about selling out to two parties with whom the have major idealogistic differences over the lack of a stimulus package, which would be rather insignificant anyways compared to the size of the global economy. Government spending now won't reverse the downturn, but it is a good time for infrastructure spending. So the Conservatives have handled the downturn relatively well... it's the boom that they mishandled.

[CaptainCrunch]

I find it interesting that this cabal is going after an economic update and not waiting for the actual budget to pull this move off. Why couldn't they wait for 6 weeks and see what the actual budget for next year is.

[Jade]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Canadians elected a coalition government, not a Tory government. Any bill that the Tories would want passed would have to be in the form of a coalition government. The Tories can avert this by changing the economic update to reflect the wishes or some of the wishes (enough to get the votes) of another party.

And in doing so, cannot fulfill all of their promises, since they do not have full control. Don't blame the tories for being forced into extra spending by other parties. Besides, right now, the other parties have no interest in passing any budget. They are more interested in a power grab for themselves that in the end will benifit no one other than the politicians directly involved ( and possibly Quebec, since the Bloc will have a ridiculous amount of power).

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Jade

Contradictory much? If the numbers for september are not even out yet, how are the 'well infomed' getting the numbers through the end of december?

What I said is as follows:

"As of November 28, 2008, the Government of Canada is in a deficit. Those numbers will confirm it."

I stated that the Government is in a deficit position as of today and that the numbers will confirm it. The word will implies that it is in the future that such numbers will be confirmed.

I then subsequently posted that the numbers for September would probably be out around Christmas (I suspect they may even include the October numbers then as well). When the numbers for November are known, it will be clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are in a deficit. That should be sometime in the new year, probably around the middle of February.

As far as the year end numbers, sure you are correct, you have to wait until the end of the year. I am not really sure when I said that the December numbers were already out?? But if the November numbers show a 3.5 billion dollar deficit, one can then make a reasonable inference that there will be a deficit at the end of the year. Especially given the current state of the economy, it is kinda like predicting that the Red Wings will make the playoffs this year. I would be shocked if the Parliamentary Budgetary Officer shows positive numbers here on out (with the possible exception of the month of December) and at the end of the day I am quite sure it will be a deficit. The only way Flaherty can really avoid it is if he sells off current assets to buy his way out of the deficit, which is really a shell game in terms of whether the country is in an actual deficit.

[Ronald Pagan]

The fact that the Liberals/NDP/Bloc comprise a majority of seats (and popular vote) does not mean that a majority of Canadians want a Liberal/NDP/Bloc coalition.

The Ronald Pagans of today's discussion belief that this is true astounds me.

??

Explain.

I can tell you that if I voted for either the Liberals, NDP or Bloc I'd be happy that the party I supported formed government.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

??

Explain.

I can tell you that if I voted for either the Liberals, NDP or Bloc I'd be happy that the party I supported formed government.

Really? If you voted for the Liberals, you'd be happy to see the NDP and the Bloc form the Government of Canada?

You, sir, are a higher form of species than the rest of us.

[Ronald Pagan]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Really? If you voted for the Liberals, you'd be happy to see the NDP and the Bloc form the Government of Canada?

You, sir, are a higher form of species than the rest of us.

Can everyone step out of their insane partisan pants for a second?

Yes, if I voted for the Liberals I'd want them to form government instead of the opposition. They would have the keys to 24 Sussex nstead of shivering in the dark at Stornoway.

Wow, this is basic stuff.

You're saying that the difference and acrimony between Liberals and NDP is so huge that their respective supporters would forego the chance to form government?

Bloc makes up the balance but the reports are that they aren't in Government, they will just support it.

Weird situation sure, but in response to Frequitude's criticism, it seems pretty rational.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

You're saying that the difference and acrimony between Liberals and NDP is so huge that their respective supporters would forego the chance to form government?

It should be. The Liberals should be closer to the Conservatives than the NDP.

[Ronald Pagan]

Laugh.

"It should be"

Says who, you?