Conservatives To Slash Federal Funding of Political Parties [Update-CPC backs down]

[peter12]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

If the grassroots fundraising structure worked, you would not need to give a huge tax subsidy to the individuals who are donating the money. If the Tories really wanted to clean up political fundraising, that is where they would start.

It's a tax credit, not a subsidy. Essentially saying that you don't pay a certain amount of tax depending on the money you give. It's encouraging donating by taking even more money out of government's pocket and putting it back in the pocket of private citizens.

[Jetsfan]

Harper should now come out and say "Ok opposition you can keep your taxpayer funding but the Conservatives are going to donate it to Charity or not accept it"

I absolutely agree! I love how Harper is exposing the opposition's lust for their entitlements. As a taxpayer, I do not want any of my money supporting the NDP or the Block.

[Ronald Pagan]

Provided that everyone who votes pays at least $1.75 in tax a year then none of your taxes would ever support the NDP or bloc.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

If the grassroots fundraising structure worked, you would not need to give a huge tax subsidy to the individuals who are donating the money. If the Tories really wanted to clean up political fundraising, that is where they would start.

And if the Liberals were similarly interested, they would forgo their reliance on the public purse to fund their own ineptitude.

What we saw today was three parties united in their desire to spend someone else's money on themselves. This was as good a first step as any in cleaning up political fundraising, and not surprisingly, the usual suspects fought hard against it.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

And if the Liberals were similarly interested, they would forgo their reliance on the public purse to fund their own ineptitude.

What we saw today was three parties united in their desire to spend someone else's money on themselves. This was as good a first step as any in cleaning up political fundraising, and not surprisingly, the usual suspects fought hard against it.

If this was really part of cleaning up political fundraising, why wasn't it part of the Conservative election platform? It's pretty obvious that the conservatives were hoping to get a majority and profit from the existing system, but since their minority means that other parties profit from this more than them (relative to total revenue), they want to do away with it. At this early point in the government, they have a mandate to do just about anything that was part of their election campaign.

I actually like this piece of legislation. But I absolutely hate the way that it's been introduced early in a term as though they're trying to force it through when the opposition is weakest and without asking for a mandate from Canadians on it. Introduce it mid-term as an issue, and if it's brought down in the house, make it part of your campaign for the next election. And then stick with it even if you get a majority and stand to profit from the existing system more than anyone else. To me it really goes to the pattern of hypocrisy that the Harper Conservatives have been guilty of since they first came to power. I have absolutely no confidence that they'll do what they say or that they'll say everything that they do. Which doesn't make them any worse than any other political party, but I had hoped for better from them.

[Kerplunk]

Originally Posted by octothorp

It's pretty obvious that the conservatives were hoping to get a majority and profit from the existing system, but since their minority means that other parties profit from this more than them (relative to total revenue), they want to do away with it.

Isn't the money based on the number of votes, not number of seats? You might be able to say they were hoping to gain more from the popular vote, but I think that those numbers have been relatively stable for a while.

I think a lot of this has to do with political strategy, and we have seen it before. Make the opposition look like the bad guys in hard economic times. Why are the parties getting X number of dollars when people are losing jobs. Like the GST cuts, it simple for the average voter to see and understand.

So now what happens? They take out the cuts, opposition looks bad. Keep it in, the budget gets voted down or they pass the budget with some of the opposition being "sick" during the vote, making the opposition look weak or just not wanting to make the government work. Yup, sounds like politics.

[Resolute 14]

God, I love the wording of the proposed non-confidence motion the Liberals plan to introduce. All of this BS about the conservatives not having a plan to deal with the economic crisis.

Depsite what some posters above seem to think, the average voter is not quite that stupid. Most people will realize that the opposition is uniting to serve themselves, not Canadians.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

God, I love the wording of the proposed non-confidence motion the Liberals plan to introduce. All of this BS about the conservatives not having a plan to deal with the economic crisis.

Depsite what some posters above seem to think, the average voter is not quite that stupid. Most people will realize that the opposition is uniting to serve themselves, not Canadians.

The only way that the Liberals win on this one is if they can convince the bloc to vote for the no confidence, otherwise they don't have enough votes to carry it through.

My guess is that the NDP and Libs would vote for the non confidence motion, the Bloc doesn't bother showing up for the vote, and extracts favors from the Conservatives later on..

[Resolute 14]

Probably. And the reliance on the Bloc is especially comical given Dion's indignant arguments during the election about fighting to keep the country together. Now he's trying to get in bed with the separatists to help fund his own party.

There really is no way such a coalition could work long term. Three parties with three wildly different agendas. I would say the most likely outcome of such a coalition would be a highly unstable government that falls within six months. And if that comes to pass, angry Canadians trudging to the polls are going to take it out on the Liberals, Bloc and NDP.

[CaptainCrunch]

Just checked my home email, certainly didn't take long for the Liberal's to send out a desparate cry for funds to their members so that they can defeat Steve Harper the morally deficient cynic and economic fool.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Just checked my home email, certainly didn't take long for the Liberal's to send out a desparate cry for funds to their members so that they can defeat Steve Harper the morally deficient cynic and economic fool.

Rae's camp is jumping all over this one. Haha, this is going to split the Liberal Party all over again.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

My guess is that the NDP and Libs would vote for the non confidence motion, the Bloc doesn't bother showing up for the vote, and extracts favors from the Conservatives later on..

For the Liberals and NDP, it's all about the pork.

They would force a 300 million dollar election over a 25 million dollar budget item.

That's guts all right, letting people see them for what they are - pigs at the trough.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The only way that the Liberals win on this one is if they can convince the bloc to vote for the no confidence, otherwise they don't have enough votes to carry it through.

My guess is that the NDP and Libs would vote for the non confidence motion, the Bloc doesn't bother showing up for the vote, and extracts favors from the Conservatives later on..

I really hope so. The only thing worse than Dion as PM, is an Iggy puppet PM and Layton puppet master PM. If Stephan Harper and his policies do not have a mandate in the eyes of the Canadian public than Jack Layton's agenda certainly doesn't. As a conservative I'm downright angry at Stephan Harper playing power politics with my future and risking an NDP governing agenda. If the CPC gets defeated on Monday, I want Harper out as leader and someone like Jim Prentice leading the party. I've had it with this garbage. The only reason why I support the Conservatives is not because I'm in love with their policies, but rather I want them in as a government to buffer against Liberal and NDP policies. I'm a lot more fearful of the lunacy going on in the minds of the Liberals and the NDP than I am supportive of the CPC.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Dion

For the Liberals and NDP, it's all about the pork.

They would force a 300 million dollar election over a 25 million dollar budget item.

Based on the current facts, that is simply not true. The Liberals are suggesting a coalition government based on the lack of an economic stimulus plan. If the Liberals were smart, they should just wait now since the "budget item" in question has been removed out of the confidence vote.

Let's see what the Americans do and go from there. A coalition with the NDP is just dangerous. Ultimately the Conservatives will put together a stimulus package (pretty much after Obama makes his play) that the Liberals (and the majority of the country) will agree with.

The Liberals are playing with fire here, and need to back off considering the financing issue has been put to rest.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

I really hope so. The only thing worse than Dion as PM, is an Iggy puppet PM and Layton puppet master PM. If Stephan Harper and his policies do not have a mandate in the eyes of the Canadian public than Jack Layton's agenda certainly doesn't. As a conservative I'm downright angry at Stephan Harper playing power politics with my future and risking an NDP governing agenda. If the CPC gets defeated on Monday, I want Harper out as leader and someone like Jim Prentice leading the party. I've had it with this garbage. The only reason why I support the Conservatives is not because I'm in love with their policies, but rather I want them in as a government to buffer against Liberal and NDP policies. I'm a lot more fearful of the lunacy going on in the minds of the Liberals and the NDP than I am supportive of the CPC.

Whoa whoa whoa... let's be serious here. In spite of Harper, let's not get crazy and let that corporate shill Prentice get anywhere near that PM seat. Have we forgotten Bill C-61 already? I would much rather have Harper leading that party than a shill like Prentice.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by ikaris

Whoa whoa whoa... let's be serious here. In spite of Harper, let's not get crazy and let that corporate shill Prentice get anywhere near that PM seat. Have we forgotten Bill C-61 already? I would much rather have Harper leading that party than a shill like Prentice.

You've had some really great posts in this thread. And I totally agree about Prentice.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Dion

For the Liberals and NDP, it's all about the pork.

They would force a 300 million dollar election over a 25 million dollar budget item.

That's guts all right, letting people see them for what they are - pigs at the trough.

1) the Libs and NDP are suggesting a coalition government, not an election, so there would not be an election "forced" on anybody.
2) Better a 25 million dollar budget item than nothing, which is what we had in September

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by ikaris

Whoa whoa whoa... let's be serious here. In spite of Harper, let's not get crazy and let that corporate shill Prentice get anywhere near that PM seat. Have we forgotten Bill C-61 already? I would much rather have Harper leading that party than a shill like Prentice.

I just threw his name out there since I'm sick of Harper, but would never vote centrist left or Lunacy left ever in an Election.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by peter12

It's a tax credit, not a subsidy. Essentially saying that you don't pay a certain amount of tax depending on the money you give. It's encouraging donating by taking even more money out of government's pocket and putting it back in the pocket of private citizens.

That is ridiculous, do you even know how a tax credit works?

1) A person has 400 dollars to use
2)Person A give 400 dollars to the Conservative Party
3) Person A gets a subsidy from the government for 300 dollars in the form of a tax credit.
4) The person pays 300 dollars less in tax to the government.
5) The Conservative Party effectively takes 300 dollars from the tax revenue of the government and puts it in their pocket.

When it should be
1) Person has 400 dollars to give
2) They pay 300 dollars they are suppose to pay in taxes
3) They give the Conservative Party 100 bucks.

Why should a political party need government funds to encourage donating. If an individual wants to donate 400 dollars, fine, I could careless. But that person should still have to pay 300 dollars after that in taxes. If they only have 400 dollars, then the political party only gets 100 bucks. But I am unsure why I have to pay more taxes so that a political party can get more donations?

100,000 people give 400 dollars to various political parties, and that is a 30 million dollar loss of revenue for the government. It basically means that I have to pay 2 dollars more a year in tax for these tax credit subsidies. In these tight economic times, we all need to tighten our belts, Flaherty should have got rid of the tax credit subsidy for political parties.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

I just threw his name out there since I'm sick of Harper, but would never vote centrist left or Lunacy left ever in an Election.

Before the Conservatives originally got into power, the Liberals and NDP were stressing that everyone would have to be scared of a conservative minority because of some sort of secret agenda.

One of the great things about Harper is that he has shown that the Conservatives (at least under minority mandate) have not gone in the extreme in any way. I personally feel pretty comfortable in a minority conservative government as they will have to compromise with the parties from the left in order to govern.

Personally, as someone who is idealogically fiscally conservative, but am socially liberal and believe in a left leaning foreign policy, the Liberals and Conservatives are very close. Primarily the difference to me is that fiscal policy of the Liberals is a little bit more to the left and the social/foreign policy of the Conservatives is significantly more to the right.

As a result of the net imbalance, I'm forced to go to the left in terms of the Canadian political spectrum. As well, I tend to prioritize the social and foreign policy more so than the fiscal policy, in spite of it hurting my pockets. That's more of a personal choice.

At the end of the day, the Liberals can't put together a convincing coalition mandate simply because Dion is a lame duck leader for their party. We will all be OK