Flames/Quad City Deal?

[dcbc]

I'm not sure if this is new news or not...if not, I apologize, I did search.

I have it on very good authority (yeah, yeah, I know that's pretty weak coming from a guy who has < 10 posts, but Ill continue nonetheless) that Abbotsford may be very close to landing either an expansion or relocated AHL franchise for its new 7500 seat arena complex.

http://newera.abbotsford.ca/Page648.aspx

I also know, for fact, that Ken King was in for a tour of the new building in the past couple of weeks.

Geographicaly speaking an AHL team in the Lower Mainland dosent seem to make much sense...but this is the info I have so thought Id pass it on. And if it did happen, it would probably make more sense for the Canucks to affiliate in Abbotsford and the Flames in Winnipeg?

Anybody know when the Flames and Quad Citys affiliation contract is up?

[Reggie Dunlop]

Ken King is also President of the Hitmen and on the WHL Board of Governors, so if in fact he was touring that particular facility, it would likely be in that capacity.

I would say the chance of an American Hockey League team in that location extremely unlikely for a number of reasons; geography chief among them.

[Robbob]

I heard that during the Olympics the Vancouver Giants were told that they won't have home games at GM place for 2 months. Like Reggie says maybe as part of the board of Govenors he stopped by to check the place out. I'm sure it would be one of the locations targeted by the WHL.

[dobbles]

i really find it hard to believe that the ahl would put a team so far from every other team in the league.

while i fully expect the qc to lose the flames thanks to our lack of attendance, no way they are moving out there.

[Ozy_Flame]

Wouldn't Abbotsford make more sense for a Canucks affiliate? Winnipeg seems like a more logical Calgary AHL team, at least in my opinion.

[Burner]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I heard that during the Olympics the Vancouver Giants were told that they won't have home games at GM place for 2 months. Like Reggie says maybe as part of the board of Govenors he stopped by to check the place out. I'm sure it would be one of the locations targeted by the WHL.

the Giants play out of Pacific Coliseum but you are right it is an Olympic Venue and it will be out of use for an extended period of time

[getbak]

San Antonio, TX is the westernmost AHL city, Winnipeg is a close second. There are no franchises in the Mountain or Pacific time zones. Putting a team in Abbotsford would be like putting an NHL franchise in Helsinki.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Burner

the Giants play out of Pacific Coliseum but you are right it is an Olympic Venue and it will be out of use for an extended period of time

he he oops. Yeah I meant the old grungy place the canucks used to play in. I heard the the Giants are looking as far as Pendicton for a place to play. I guess a month prior to the Olympics starting is when they are kicked out because they want the space available for practices for the olympic athletes.

[Resolute 14]

More likely, Abbotsford would go the ECHL route. With Victoria nearby, they have a nice rival, and it creates a better travel schedule for anyone in the Western Conference.

If Abbotsford were to get an AHL team though, it would make far too much sense for Vancouver to switch. Especially if they also affiliated with the Salmon Kings. That would be an NHL team's dream scenario right there.

We could then pick up Winnipeg, but I personally find it unlikely. I don't think the Flames will want to bail on QC unless something is really odd with the current arrangement.

Reggie's hypothesis is also viable. I'm not sure why King himself would be doing such a tour, but the WHL is currently unbalanced, and the league might like the idea of putting another BC team, and probably another US division team to balance things out. That said, Vancouver, Abbotsford and Chilliwack are all pretty close together.

[604flames]

Couple thoughts...

No way is the AHL going to Abbotsford IMO. The Giants may play a handful of games out there in 2010, as we've been told they will be out of the Coliseum for ~6 weeks, and will likely kill a few of them with Eastern swings or trips up to Prince George. They are also looking at playing in Langley apparently.

There have also been rumours swirling that it may be the Salmon Kings moving to Abbotsford, and a WHL team being put in Victoria (Kootenay Ice could be moving after this season). Problem is, the Kings draw well, and the consensus in town (I am friends w/ their play by play guy), is that people have been sold on the ECHL product.

[Reggie Dunlop]

As far as the ECHL and the Flames go, they already have a thriving situation in Las Vegas and little reason to be scouting other locations.

[Housley4Prez]

As a Flames fan living in Vancouver, I'd definitely welcome an AHL Flames affiliate in Abbotsford. It probably won't happen, but I'd definitely be there for at least a few games a season, should it turn out that way. That said, I can see the Canucks snapping up the location and the Flames jumping on Winnipeg. Sorry QC, but the Flames have a rocky history of leaving AHL locations high and dry.

[Drunk Skunk]

Not many tears would be shed by the fans in the Quad City area if that were to happen.

[c.t.ner]

Originally Posted by getbak

San Antonio, TX is the westernmost AHL city, Winnipeg is a close second. There are no franchises in the Mountain or Pacific time zones. Putting a team in Abbotsford would be like putting an NHL franchise in Helsinki.

Austin's getting Dallas's farm team starting in 2009, but you are right putting teams on the west coasts isn't as viable with the cost of travel nowadays.

Personally, I think it makes more sense for the big clubs to put teams closer as it at least makes the travel easier for call-ups and for the team to have a stronger connection to farm team)

[Canada 02]

Specific terms of the five-year agreement were not disclosed, but the partnership will not copy the 50-50 arrangement Calgary had at its previous AHL stop in Omaha, Neb.

Murphy said QCSV will own 100 percent of the business operation, funding travel, front office and marketing costs and assuming all profit or loss from ticket sales and corporate sponsorships.

The team will pay a $1 million franchise fee, but in return Calgary will cover all player personnel-related expenses, including salaries that start at a $35,000 minimum, and health and workers’ compensation expenses.

The QCSV group will own a percentage of the franchise, which would matter only in the event of a sale.

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2...9023195997.txt

From the Calgary Flames perspective, their costs don't change regardless of where the franchise is located, so the prospect of leaving QC is really up to QCSV, and how much they are willing to invest (lose)

anyhow, its a 5 year agreement, so I doubt they are going anywhere for another 4 years

Taylor said the Q-C Flames need to average in excess of 4,000 fans per game to cover an increased operating budget

QCSV must be losing a lot of money

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by 604flames

There have also been rumours swirling that it may be the Salmon Kings moving to Abbotsford, and a WHL team being put in Victoria (Kootenay Ice could be moving after this season). Problem is, the Kings draw well, and the consensus in town (I am friends w/ their play by play guy), is that people have been sold on the ECHL product.

Really? What would cause the Ice to relocate?

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by 604flames

There have also been rumours swirling that it may be the Salmon Kings moving to Abbotsford, and a WHL team being put in Victoria (Kootenay Ice could be moving after this season). Problem is, the Kings draw well, and the consensus in town (I am friends w/ their play by play guy), is that people have been sold on the ECHL product.

Good to hear the Salmon Kings are doing well at the gate; however, if Victoria has accepted the ECHL product wouldn't the AHL game be a step or two better?

[PIMking]

attendance can hit 4k. Its just takes the players to win at home or put on a good show at home.

Last year they stumbled (use that loosly) and this year has been worse at home at the beginning of the year. Last year after Christmas things picked up attendance wise and I think the same will happen this year.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by c.t.ner

Austin's getting Dallas's farm team starting in 2009, but you are right putting teams on the west coasts isn't as viable with the cost of travel nowadays.

Personally, I think it makes more sense for the big clubs to put teams closer as it at least makes the travel easier for call-ups and for the team to have a stronger connection to farm team)

i think thats a pretty overrated reason. how many callups have the flames had this season? in a case like calgary, having a team anywhere near them would cause the travel schedule of the team to be infinitely longer than the few times a year an individual player needs go up or down.

[604flames]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Really? What would cause the Ice to relocate?

Their lease at the RecPlex has an attendance clause, which states that if the team's average attendance over a season falls below 2,800 in consecutive seasons, they can opt out of the remaining years. Attendance was in the 2700s I believe last season, and the team announced their intentions to possibly opt out if it doesn't improve this year.

Attendance has really dropped off in the last few years since the Mem Cup team, and management (according to locals I speak to) do little to market the team or promote the product. They've had one crowd of 3,000+ this season (last weekend vs. Edmonton). Rumours are abound about moves to Victoria or Pentiction (the latter of which can be vetoed by Bruce Hamilton because Penticton is within the Rockets' 100-mile protected area).

It's a real shame really, 'cause I remember the excitement in town when the team moved, as well as the sense of pride we all felt during the two Mem Cup runs (the second being obv. much more pleasing). Cranbrook's just always seemed (to me) the kind of town that never realizes what they could lose until it actually leaves, and there seems to be a sense of complacency outside the 2,500 people who go every night.