New Calgary transit fees.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by fredr123

Don't forget the increase to your utility costs after the City increases the Enmax dividend.

If i heard it right - and I have to really work to get this out - the city may have done the smart thing here.

The 8 mil was headed to a parks endowment. So it's not more money, just using endowment money for spending.

Some may not like that, but remember the city has 600 or 800 million in savings that barely get touched - and in fact runs a surplus every year that goes into the savings too.

[Ethaniel]

Originally Posted by Rathji

After I talked with my wife about this she pointed out BRT ( Bus Rapid Transit) being put in along the proposed SE leg of the LRT. Anyone know the timeline for this to happen? It would actually mean bus service to somewhere close to my community.

Any Direct Bus Route to downtown with a park and pay is effected by the $3/day charge. So I take the 301 from Country Hills and that parking lot is effected by the charge.

[LChoy]

Originally Posted by llama64

Most big cities have transit "zones". Travelling from within one zone costs the minimum amount. Moving between zones costs extra. It's a smart idea implemented very nicely in far larger, more complicated cities then Calgary.

Someone traveling from Sunnyside station into downtown should pay the current fee. Someone traveling from Dalhousie station into downtown should pay a higher fee (3$ to $3.25) for instance.

What a concept... people actually paying for using more of a service.

The ticket booths in the train stations of the Netherlands gives out tickets based on where you are and where you are going and calculates the number of zones you are passing through towards your final destination. Some are even smart enough to know what station you buying your ticket from so you can't cheat the system by inputting a closer stop than you are at.

[Papi34]

This thread is pretty long and i didnt want to read through it all but is this actually happening in regards to 3 dollars to park? and when does it take affect? That is ridiculous if this got passed

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

Apparently this is not enough. What specifically would constitute McKenzie Towne receiving bus service in your mind?

Not needing to walk from the Esso in Mackenzie Lake to nearly 22x and 52nd at 9pm if I have to stay at school late would be nice. Not everyone in MackenzieTowne lives a 2 min walk from the traffic circle.

I am sure there are a ton of options available, but if they involve me walking for 20 mins to get home after spending 30-45 mins waiting for and traveling on the bus they are not viable.

I am sure someone who uses a bus to get to work and back during rush hour is totally satisfied with the bus service to areas such as Mackenzie Towne. I purchased my house with the knowledge that I would need to drive to the train station to be able to get to school and now they are gonna ram $60+ bucks a month down my throat.

All this does is encourage me to drive all the way to school, which kinda defeats the purpose of public transit as an affordable alternative to driving which helps keeps cars and congestion off the roads.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by 4X4

The way Calgary is growing, why shouldn't people who live in the further areas of town pay more for transit than people who live closer? Taxes are already way lower in the far reaches. If you're going to weigh down a train all the way from a far station, why shouldn't you pay more?

The majority of transit users are coming from the suburbs. We're the ones paying for the entire system day in and day out.

Anyway, given how much I despise Calgary Transit, the only thing the $3 parking fee would accomplish is to get me to stop using the train. I'll never take a train to the Dome for a Hitmen game again, as it is worth the extra $3.50 to park at Stampede Park and avoid dealing with the worst run organization in Calgary. And frankly, I'll probably start doing it for Flames games too. And I'm usually the only one driving to the games. So, congrats CT, one more car on the road, one less rider. You idiots just aren't worth the money.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The majority of transit users are coming from the suburbs. We're the ones paying for the entire system day in and day out.

I respectfully disagree. More accurately, I think that alot of people in the inner city (and I'm talking north of heritage) would use the train if they weren't already packed by the time they leave fish creek.
Give the people that get on at Chinook a slight break on fare and tack it on to the fares of people getting on at somerset and I bet you'd see an increase of users in the inner city. Maybe not a significant and immediate increase, but things would change.
People in the far reaches would start to consider car pooling a bit more and people in the inner areas would be more inclined to use the train more.

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes to me. I'm not trying to punish users from the outer areas so much as I'm trying to even things out.

I find it funny that homeowners in the inner city pay more for everything, yet people in the outer areas get more. Taxes are way higher in the inner city and roads are smaller. The people that live on the south leg of Deerfoot (and that used to be me, so I'm not trashing it, just saying) enjoy a beautiful four lane freeway until Barlow, then three lanes until Anderson. Overpasses, spacious parking lots at the shopping centers, big yards, big rec areas, yet taxes are lower. And it's subsidized by inner city people that pay more in property taxes.

Now, don't get me wrong and think that I'm suggesting that property taxes are out of whack. Property taxes are based on property values, so they're right where they belong. I'm just saying that something like a graduated fare system on transit is a good way to correct what I see as something that is a bit unfair.

[taco.vidal]

4X4 is bang on. Many people chose to live in the innercity and the downtown core because the neighbourhoods are walkable and transit can quickly get you everywhere you need to go. With the rapid growth in the city and the expansion of the train lines with little increase in capacity, transit in the innercity has gone down hill.

I live innercity, just out of the downtown core. Ive lived here for years and have seen my transit options go from great to terrible.
I have the option of the bus or the train... both within walking distance.

The train used to be great. But slowly overtime it got more and more packed. At first i wasnt able to get a seat - not a big deal as it was a quick ride into downtown. Then as they expanded the line, I was no longer able to get on the train during rush hour. Id have to wait for several trains until I could squeeze on.

As the train got busier, I would take the bus. Again, at first Id be able to get a seat, then you could get on the bus but would have to stand, and now you can see 2 or 3 buses fly by without stopping (and its even worse on cold winter days).

Both the train and the bus (this route starts quite far in the burbs) are barely useable for me during rush hour. I live close enough that Im able to walk to work and thats what I do most days.

Id love to take the train or bus but its packed full of suburbanites. If I use the train, I dont need a park and ride. For suburbanites, it may seem punitive to have to pay $3 for parking. But you are the ones who need the service and you should pay for it.

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The majority of transit users are coming from the suburbs. We're the ones paying for the entire system day in and day out.

Originally Posted by 4X4

I respectfully disagree. More accurately, I think that alot of people in the inner city (and I'm talking north of heritage) would use the train if they weren't already packed by the time they leave fish creek.
Give the people that get on at Chinook a slight break on fare and tack it on to the fares of people getting on at somerset and I bet you'd see an increase of users in the inner city. Maybe not a significant and immediate increase, but things would change.
People in the far reaches would start to consider car pooling a bit more and people in the inner areas would be more inclined to use the train more.

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes to me. I'm not trying to punish users from the outer areas so much as I'm trying to even things out.

I find it funny that homeowners in the inner city pay more for everything, yet people in the outer areas get more. Taxes are way higher in the inner city and roads are smaller. The people that live on the south leg of Deerfoot (and that used to be me, so I'm not trashing it, just saying) enjoy a beautiful four lane freeway until Barlow, then three lanes until Anderson. Overpasses, spacious parking lots at the shopping centers, big yards, big rec areas, yet taxes are lower. And it's subsidized by inner city people that pay more in property taxes.

Now, don't get me wrong and think that I'm suggesting that property taxes are out of whack. Property taxes are based on property values, so they're right where they belong. I'm just saying that something like a graduated fare system on transit is a good way to correct what I see as something that is a bit unfair.

[Patrick]

Simple solution to the problem instead of increasing pass fees and charging parking fees.

Employ one perosnal at each station WHO CHECKS tickets. The money they lose from people not paying for transit or collect from tickets would offset the labour fees and add to the transit revenue.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Patrick

Simple solution to the problem instead of increasing pass fees and charging parking fees.

Employ one perosnal at each station WHO CHECKS tickets. The money they lose from people not paying for transit or collect from tickets would offset the labour fees and add to the transit revenue.

This wouldnt be a bad idea. I worked downtown for a year and a half and I only bought tickets when I didn't ride during peak hours. I didn't get caught once.

[psicodude]

Originally Posted by Patrick

Simple solution to the problem instead of increasing pass fees and charging parking fees.

Employ one perosnal at each station WHO CHECKS tickets. The money they lose from people not paying for transit or collect from tickets would offset the labour fees and add to the transit revenue.

You don't even have to hire people. Just install a simple gate system like pretty much every other subway system on the planet uses. Yeah, it's not fool proof, but it seemed to work pretty well when I was in New York.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

This wouldnt be a bad idea. I worked downtown for a year and a half and I only bought tickets when I didn't ride during peak hours. I didn't get caught once.

i think should be in the confessional thread.....

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

I live innercity, just out of the downtown core. Ive lived here for years and have seen my transit options go from great to terrible.
I have the option of the bus or the train... both within walking distance.

Taco, is it really that bad?

I live on the fringe of the core, and catch one of the buses coming down Bow Trail everyday. All the suburbanites from the West end are on these buses and I'm one of the last people on. When my bus comes, I usually don't have to wait more than five minutes for a bus during the morning rush hour, and I'd say 75% of the time I get a seat. Even if the bus is jam packed, people don't aggrevate me to the point where I wouldn't use transit anymore - no one is being rude, everyone is usually quiet, and there is no real violation of personal space (you don't want to be touched, and people don't want to touch you.)

On the way home, I always catch an empty bus on the way out of the core and never once have I had to stand unless I was giving up my seat for a senior or expecting mother.

I'm just wonder if it is really that bad to people?

It seems people want bigger, better buses coming more often but don't want to increase taxes to pay for them. The only thing left to do is apply a user fee to reduce the number of riders.

If the user fee goes towards transit funding, then this is going to be a brilliant idea.

[Rathji]

Paying a transit cop to stand at each end of a station to check tickets would need to pay for itself at the very least. Then you could charge more for longer rides and avoid the parking fee!

Probably cheaper to install gates though.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Patrick

Simple solution to the problem instead of increasing pass fees and charging parking fees.

Employ one perosnal at each station WHO CHECKS tickets. The money they lose from people not paying for transit or collect from tickets would offset the labour fees and add to the transit revenue.

Do you mean check every person's ticket? That would take forever. There are 12 doors on a train and you'd either have to have people at every door or funnel everyone who enters the platform through a single entrance.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

It's been years since I've ridden Calgary transit, so I don't pretend to any sort of particular expertise here--but I have to admit that I really don't think the world is ending here. Public transit is perhaps THE defining factor determining urban quality of life in cities like Calgary. Want to know what makes Boston and New York great places to live? It's not Hoagies and cream pie. Want to know what makes Philadelphia a horrible place to live? It's not cheesesteak.

The answer in both cases is: infrastructure. In particular, public transit. And although this price increase may be painful for some, it's small enough to be easily absorbed by the market--and the transit system will STILL be considerably cheaper than it is in Boston.

For my money, Calgary transit needs to expand in order to meet the demands of the city--and so my concern with it is not "it's too expensive" but "there's not enough of it." My feeling is that people will use transit more according to the final criteria, in descending order of importance:
1. Fast
2. Convenient
3. Reliable
4. Not crowded
5. Less expensive than driving

If we take as a given that more transit infrastructure is needed, we must also accept that this infrastructure isn't free. How do we pay for it? You have two options: put it on the taxpayer, or charge a user fee. The user fee should approximately cover the cost of the service, and the market will dictate its affordability--that is, if it's too expensive, people will stop using it and use something else instead.

[albertGQ]

I thought the new $3 charge for Park 'n Ride lots were in effect on 01/01/09?

I parked at the Whitehorn one this morning and it looked the same as normal. No attendant nor a pay station. Is this new fee being delayed?

[Pagal4321]

I thought the same thing in mid-December, but I guess they delayed it.

It is anticipated that the $3.00 daily fee for parking will commence at CTrain station lots in early Spring 2009 then expand to other parking lots after that.

http://www.calgarytransit.com/html/park_n_ride.html

[Cliche]

Just to update this thread, park n ride is going with the Calgary Parking Authorities Park Plus system on the 16th.

http://www.calgarytransit.com/html/park_n_ride.html

At the following 3 stations:

• Somerset-Bridlewood Station (South LRT)
• McKnight-Westwinds Station (Northeast LRT)
• Dalhousie Station (Northwest LRT)

Sucks for the short stay in that they are charging 3.00 for a maximum of 4 hours. Which is just about the same amount of time for a hockey game. Hmm.. 8 bucks for standing in the cold for 15-20 minutes vs. 11/12$ for a walk to a car to wait to warm up. And even then, and the break even point is 2 people pretty much.

[Rathji]

Since my schedule this semester changed to the point where I am able to take the bus, I didn't even realize that they hadn't put this in till I was running late last week and had to drive to Anderson.

I do like the option of Short Stay parking, and the option to pay by cell phone. Maybe I missed it but is there an option to purchase your months parking with your bus pass, or monthly parking independant of a pass?