I Baptize Dead People

[photon]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Sources?

Some of that stuff is so ridiculously false it's not even funny.
Some of them are out of context.

I dunno, that pretty much sums up the Mormonism video I was shown as a teen at the church I was attending at the time. Mormons are a cult you see and we were being protected against their demonic influence.

It MUST be true!

[Displaced Flames fan]

Nice source.

Look, I'm no advocate for the Mormon faith, I'm not a member and haven't been since I was a teenager and that means something.

But this group of people gets more misinformation spread about them than any other religious group I have ever seen. People will believe ANYTHING if you say Mormon's believe it.

Some of the stuff you guys are saying is simply not true.

[MarchHare]

Nice source.

What would be an acceptable source, then, if that one doesn't meet your standards?

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

What would be an acceptable source, then, if that one doesn't meet your standards?

The Mormon church itself.

Ex-Mormon's with axes to grind and an eager audience willing to believe any tall tale isn't exactly a recipe for truthfulness.

But hey, here I am an ex-Mormom telling you some of these things are not true but I'm not an acceptable source?

Nice logic.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Nice source.

Look, I'm no advocate for the Mormon faith, I'm not a member and haven't been since I was a teenager and that means something.

But this group of people gets more misinformation spread about them than any other religious group I have ever seen. People will believe ANYTHING if you say Mormon's believe it.

Some of the stuff you guys are saying is simply not true.

Have to agree with DFF here. Every religion has their "weird" beliefs.

Hell in Catholocism it is accepted that each time you take communion the host and the wine each LITERALLY turn into the body and blood of Christ.

That is pretty effing wacky.


From WIKI:

According to the Catholic Church, when the bread and wine are consecrated in the Eucharist, they cease to be bread and wine, and become instead the body and blood of Christ: although the empirical appearances are not changed, the reality is changed by the power of the Holy Spirit who has been called down upon the bread and wine. The consecration of the bread (known as the host) and wine represents the separation of Jesus' body from his blood at Calvary. However, since he has risen, the Church teaches that his body and blood can no longer be truly separated. Where one is, the other must be. Therefore, although the priest (or minister) says "The body of Christ" when administering the host, and "The blood of Christ" when presenting the chalice, the communicant who receives either one receives Christ, whole and entire.[26]

If that isn't as wacky as some as the Mormon "beliefs" I don't know what is.

[Cheese]

Ex-Mormon website

The Origins of Mormonism

Mormon History

LDS and Mormon Faith

[Daradon]

Yup, all Catholics are vampyres!

I think sometimes, some beliefs get thrown with others. Don't forget every religion has different sects. Sometimes mystical, sometimes down right weird. There could be truth to both sides. There could be a larger Mormon group with very real and practical beliefs, and their could be outdated or wacky beliefs in some other branches. You see that with ALL religions.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Ex-Mormon website

The Origins of Mormonism

Mormon History

LDS and Mormon Faith

Going to one of these sites to find factual information on Mormons would be far more foolish than contacting Sarah Palin to find out if Barrack Obama would make a good president.

[Nage Waza]

I think many of you have missed the reason why Jews are mad at what the Mormons are doing - It is very simple. If murdered people can be 'turned into another religon' than there is motivation for people to murder. Want to convert a group? Kill them then convert them. It is rather sick what the mormons are doing.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I think many of you have missed the reason why Jews are mad at what the Mormons are doing - It is very simple. If murdered people can be 'turned into another religon' than there is motivation for people to murder. Want to convert a group? Kill them then convert them. It is rather sick what the mormons are doing.

Wow. That's a giant leap.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I think many of you have missed the reason why Jews are mad at what the Mormons are doing - It is very simple. If murdered people can be 'turned into another religon' than there is motivation for people to murder. Want to convert a group? Kill them then convert them. It is rather sick what the mormons are doing.

I touched on that a bit in my resposnes, though I hestitate to jump to the ultimate conclusion that THAT is what they are doing. As such I'm not going to make such a bold claim.

Still, like with most religions, it's hard to believe what they are doing, heck the practice or baptism by proxy in general, not just this specific case with holocaust victims, is being done for purely altruistic purposes. It does feel like a bit of cultural/religious warfare.

EDIT: I have to disagree with the killing part, I don't think that's part of the plan or idea. So in that I disagree.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I touched on that a bit in my resposnes, though I hestitate to jump to the ultimate conclusion that THAT is what they are doing. As such I'm not going to make such a bold claim.

Still, like with most religions, it's hard to believe what they are doing, heck the practice or baptism by proxy in general, not just this specific case with holocaust victims, is being done for purely altruistic purposes. It does feel like a bit of cultural/religious warfare.

I agree with you here.

I think they are the victims of a bad core belief here. It's not logical to believe that a loving God wouldn't accept unbaptized people and especially THESE unbaptized people.

Of course, that's the fundamental problem I have with religion in general. We're right and everyone else is going to go to hell if they don't join us. Pretty much a universal theistic belief.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by flip

When guys on their mission come to my door I ALWAYS invite them in and talk about religion for a while. They always ask me to sign up for an orientation type deal and I always decline and tell them that I have no intention of changing my beliefs.

Usually they are happy to have some company for a while as they are usually from the Southern US. Never have they got mad at me for wasting their time but I often wonder if as they are leaving they are muttering under their breath that they almost had a sale. (sort of like Gil on the Simpsons)

I agree, the guys and gals are quite friendly often like small talk when they drop by. The 2 gals that put me thorugh the program often brought home baking to the sessions. In fact when i came down with a bad case of the flu and cold they dropped some home made chicken soup at my door. While i disagree strongly with thier beliefs i respect thier sincereity and honesty about what they believe.

[Daradon]

^^^ Yup, DFF. The more peaceful religions and philsophies really don't care what anyones else religion or philosophy is, and don't believe anyone is excluded. IE to use a more general term in a very simple sense, Nirvana can be achieved by anyone.

In my own life, looking for a partner with the same philosophy is not a huge thing on my list. And if I had kids I wouldn't care what they chose to believe in, probably trying to show them many different things.

I'm pretty sure the afterlife (if there even is one) is the same for every single person. I don't have to pretend I'm right to change anyone else, even those I love, so they get into the same place as me.

I'm probably going to hell anyway, so I wouldn't want my family to follow me there...

[Nage Waza]

To clear up what I wrote earlier, I never thought for a second Mormons kill people in order to 'baptize' them. What I meant was that it sets a dark precedent if mudered people can be claimed by a religion. And that is the issues at heart here, this is not a new issue either. People have complained previously about this practice, and IIRC the issue is exactly as I describe it. Also, the issue of even dragging the names of holocaust victims for some strange cause is somewhat in bad taste.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Going to one of these sites to find factual information on Mormons would be far more foolish than contacting Sarah Palin to find out if Barrack Obama would make a good president.

I'm sure there is inaccurate information in those links, but surely some of it has to be true.

Ferrinstance, the origins of the book of Mormon (specifically, how Smith claims it was inspired/written). I read about seer stones, a hat, gold plates and other curious things. Is that all false?

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I'm sure there is inaccurate information in those links, but surely some of it has to be true.

Ferrinstance, the origins of the book of Mormon (specifically, how Smith claims it was inspired/written). I read about seer stones, a hat, gold plates and other curious things. Is that all false?

Hat? Not sure, I suppose the story could have him wearing one...that wouldn't be odd.

But yeah, the origin was gold tablets and stones that translated them.

I didn't say it was all false.

[Calgaryborn]

I don't see how Mormons baptising dead folks could be a a danger to Jews or any other Religion. It is unlikely that the Mormon records would survive while all others were destroyed. Also, you would think that seeing a baptism date that was sixty some years after the date of the persons death would give any historian pause.

I think the Jewish lobby should be careful not to use the anti-Semitic card too quickly on none issues. It weakens their voice against the real threats Jews face.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Hat? Not sure, I suppose the story could have him wearing one...that wouldn't be odd.

But yeah, the origin was gold tablets and stones that translated them.

I didn't say it was all false.

No, you didn't say it was all false, but Rathji said as much.

The part about the hat is that he looked into a hat with the rocks in the hat as he was translating the gold tablets while another guy wrote down what he was saying. I don't know if it's true or not.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I don't see how Mormons baptising dead folks could be a a danger to Jews or any other Religion. It is unlikely that the Mormon records would survive while all others were destroyed. Also, you would think that seeing a baptism date that was sixty some years after the date of the persons death would give any historian pause.

I think the Jewish lobby should be careful not to use the anti-Semitic card too quickly on none issues. It weakens their voice against the real threats Jews face.

Please expand on this.