Killer living wage - please, tax me more Calgary

[First Lady]

Killer living wages

The newest social justice fad is another sop to unions that has nothing to do with poverty

Peter Shawn Taylor, Financial Post
Published: Wednesday, November 05, 2008

If nothing else, the left has a knack for picking the perfect adjective. Consider fair trade. Who could possibly be against fairness? If you're against fair trade, it stands to reason you must be in favour of unfair trade. The same tricky modifiers are at work with universal daycare, social justice, progressive politics and the latest up-and-coming dangerous idea, the living wage.

What's the opposite of a living wage? Presumably a death wage. Although a freely-negotiated-in-the-labour-market wage would be more accurate.

Starting in Baltimore in 1994, about 140 American cities have adopted living wage policies. The argument is as follows: Minimum wage is insufficient to support a family, so cities calculate a new wage rate they figure is enough to live on -- typically 50% or more above the prescribed minimum. Since municipalities lack the legislative power to force such a wage on their entire local economy, living wage laws only apply to municipal employees, contractors doing business with the city and businesses or non-profits that receive municipal subsidies. It's a small but significant chunk of the local workforce.

But what began as a desperate and controversial move by troubled American cities to stem poverty in their blighted urban cores now appears on its way to becoming a social policy affectation for some of Canada's richest cities.

Calgary is on track to be the first. A $13.25 per hour living wage (Alberta minimum wage: $8.40) comes before city council in January or February for final approval. The Regional Municipality of Waterloo in southwestern Ontario will consider its own initial proposal for a $13.62 living wage (Ontario minimum wage: $8.75) in October. And tiny Pelham, Ont., near Niagara Falls, also has a living wage proposal before its town council. All these municipalities, it should be noted, are marked by relatively high incomes.

Continued:
http://www.nationalpost.com/todays_p...html?id=933685

Another fine example of where our municipal tax hike will be going.....

[burn_this_city]

I'm sorry but $8.40/hr is pathetic.. I dont agree with a living wage, but people can't live in Calgary on minimum wage.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I'm sorry but $8.40/hr is pathetic.. I dont agree with a living wage, but people can't live in Calgary on minimum wage.

I haven't looked recently but a year ago good luck at finding a job in calgary for minimum wage apart from maybe a couple jobs that rely heavily on tips for their income.

[ken0042]

I have to agree- I don't know of anybody who makes minimum wage and doesn't also make tips.

I also don't have an issue with minimum wage being what it is. With it being so low it gives a chance for kids to get part time jobs and learn some real world skills. I also know that because minimum wage sucks so bad, I made sure to improve my skills whenever I could so that I could get jobs that were better than minimum.

[Muta]

If wage goes up to a minimum $13.25 an hour, I will promptly be asking my employer to raise my hourly rate to match that. I am a certain % over the minimum wage (as is everybody), and my salary should reflect that... so should yours.

[DementedReality]

who is obligated to work for minimum wage? if it is not enough for you to support your family, decline the offer of employment and go find a job to pay you more.

if employers cant find employee's due to their wage policy, they will offer more.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I have to agree- I don't know of anybody who makes minimum wage and doesn't also make tips.

I also don't have an issue with minimum wage being what it is. With it being so low it gives a chance for kids to get part time jobs and learn some real world skills. I also know that because minimum wage sucks so bad, I made sure to improve my skills whenever I could so that I could get jobs that were better than minimum.

Wal-mart shafts people with crappy wages like that and no benefits by only allowing them to work 35 hours a week.

[DementedReality]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Wal-mart shafts people with crappy wages like that and no benefits by only allowing them to work 35 hours a week.

I think we should report Wal Mart to the police. Clearly they are forcing people against their will to accept those conditions.

If it was me and benefits and more than minimum wage were important to me, I would continue my job search. No?

[Thunderball]

The market already does a good job of determining market value, and that already is in the $11-15 range, well north of the minimum wage. The higher the pay, the better qualities the applicant likely has. The lower the pay, the more likely good applicants walk away.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Muta

If wage goes up to a minimum $13.25 an hour, I will promptly be asking my employer to raise my hourly rate to match that. I am a certain % over the minimum wage (as is everybody), and my salary should reflect that... so should yours.

Sure... though, the raise from minimum to living is to allow these people to 'live' (whether you believe they need the money or not)... that doesn't necessarily justify increases for everyone over the living wage (imo). I can definitely see this argument coming from a lot of places though.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

The market already does a good job of determining market value, and that already is in the $11-15 range, well north of the minimum wage. The higher the pay, the better qualities the applicant likely has. The lower the pay, the more likely good applicants walk away.

It's probably more of an issue in markets where the labour demand isn't as high as it is here. Not sure why Calgary would be in on this thing.

[CaptainCrunch]

I'm all for them doubling the living salary for the city of Calgary workers, then they can halve the workforce. I mean how many guys do you need to lean on a shovel.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'm all for them doubling the living salary for the city of Calgary workers, then they can halve the workforce. I mean how many guys do you need to lean on a shovel.

Exception to the rule.

Most City workers are hard working individuals.

The same problems exist in the private sector as well.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

The market already does a good job of determining market value, and that already is in the $11-15 range, well north of the minimum wage. The higher the pay, the better qualities the applicant likely has. The lower the pay, the more likely good applicants walk away.

Albertas economy is dictating that right. I live in a small town and the retail and restraunt side are have a terrible time of attracting workers. Some have had to reduce thier hours of operation due to a staff shortage and others have closed shop.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

The market already does a good job of determining market value, and that already is in the $11-15 range, well north of the minimum wage. The higher the pay, the better qualities the applicant likely has. The lower the pay, the more likely good applicants walk away.

Then what's the problem with implementing one? The City will only have to support those necessary to meet that range, which is a rapidly declining number of minimum-wage earners in Calgary.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Exception to the rule.

Most City workers are hard working individuals.

The same problems exist in the private sector as well.

except they get fired for the most part.

[Metro Gnome]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I'm sorry but $8.40/hr is pathetic.. I dont agree with a living wage, but people can't live in Calgary on minimum wage.

Minimum wage isn't meant to be "lived on". If you are a grown adult trying to get by on $8.40/hour (or worse, trying to raise a family on it), then you've probably made some pretty bad mistakes so far.

Heck, I worked at Starbucks during my University days and managed to get myself above $10 an hour just, by, you know...not getting fired. That (admittedly unpleasant job) came with health benefits and stock options and could be capably performed by anyone with a functioning brain, two arms and a will to put up with yuppy crap for hours at a time.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Exception to the rule.

Most City workers are hard working individuals.

The same problems exist in the private sector as well.

I was joking.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Exception to the rule.

Most City workers are hard working individuals.

The same problems exist in the private sector as well.

Except for the fact the city workers have a union that protects the lazy and makes it difficut for the employer to fire workers. Now i'm not saying all are lazy but they do exist with a union enviroment.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Exception to the rule.

Most City workers are hard working individuals.

The same problems exist in the private sector as well.

Big difference is that we don't pay the private sector... we pay the public sector.

Why shouldn't we implement one? Simply because it adds government interference into a place where the market is already in play and will cost taxpayers money when it could easily be the case that these people could find better employment elsewhere, or have no requirement for a "living wage" (like the 15-18 crowd).

I think the important thing to do is ask these questions: Why are these jobs below market wage? Who takes these jobs (ie: full-time workers or U-18 students) What are these jobs? are they overstaffed? Are there better paying sectors that require workers?

The answer to these questions will likely determine that implementing this is a waste of taxpayer money.