Revenge of the Sith

[MarchHare]

Kevin Smith on Episode I:

Of the film, I can say many things. But the long and short of it is that I liked it - quite a bit. I'd rank it right after 'Empire' in a list of fave 'Star Wars' flicks. It starts great, ends great, and has great stuff sprinkled in between.

Yeah, he's got credibility...

[Calgary Flames]

Originally posted by MarchHare@May 3 2005, 09:44 AM
Kevin Smith on Episode I:

Yeah, he's got credibility...

I don't see him bashing Episode I at all... He does mention the prequel haters but that's it.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally posted by Calgary Flames+May 3 2005, 09:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Calgary Flames @ May 3 2005, 09:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MarchHare@May 3 2005, 09:44 AM
Kevin Smith on Episode I:

Yeah, he's got credibility...

I don't see him bashing Episode I at all... He does mention the prequel haters but that's it. [/b][/quote]
I think that's the point. If he liked the piece of turd that was Eppy 1 then why should we believe him that Eppy 3 is nothing more than an even bigger piece of turd.

[Mike F]

From everything I've seen and read it looks like it will be nice and dark as it should be, but the keys to whether it will be good or not are:

1. Do the effects look 'realistic' and not cartoonish,
2. Can Lucas write decent dialogue, and
3. Can Hayden Christensen act his way out of a wet paper bag.

I really want those 3 things to work in this movie, because if they do it will make Star Wars a great 4 movie set -- Eps 3, 4, 5 & 6

[Calgary Flames]

Originally posted by JiriHrdina+May 3 2005, 10:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JiriHrdina @ May 3 2005, 10:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

I don't see him bashing Episode I at all... He does mention the prequel haters but that's it.

I think that's the point. If he liked the piece of turd that was Eppy 1 then why should we believe him that Eppy 3 is nothing more than an even bigger piece of turd. [/b][/quote]
What was wrong with the prequels that any other Star Wars movie didn't have? riddle me that!

-Bad acting
-Cheezy dialogue
-Annoying characters

The only thing I can guess as to why people hate the prequels is..... No Darth Vader, No Empire, Not Dark enough.

To me the story is there and that's all that I care about. It's Star Wars man!

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally posted by Calgary Flames@May 3 2005, 10:24 AM
What was wrong with the prequels that any other Star Wars movie didn't have? riddle me that!

They just aren't as good of movies. The annoying characters in Star Wars like C-3PO are still actually funny and make me laugh, the annoying ones in Phantom Menance (Jar-Jar) are annoying annoying.. just bug me.

The first ones are just superior movies.. as simple as that.

I like Episodes 1 and 2, they are very good Sci-Fi movies, but they don't come close to what Star Wars, Empire, and Jedi did.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally posted by Calgary Flames+May 3 2005, 10:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Calgary Flames @ May 3 2005, 10:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

I think that's the point. If he liked the piece of turd that was Eppy 1 then why should we believe him that Eppy 3 is nothing more than an even bigger piece of turd.

What was wrong with the prequels that any other Star Wars movie didn't have? riddle me that!

-Bad acting
-Cheezy dialogue
-Annoying characters

The only thing I can guess as to why people hate the prequels is..... No Darth Vader, No Empire, Not Dark enough.

To me the story is there and that's all that I care about. It's Star Wars man! [/b][/quote]
The problem is there was no compelling story. Lucas focused on SFX more than anything else including his precious digital character Jar Jar. The humor was infantile - heck it included a fart joke for pete's sake! The acting was way worse than the original triology. In the original movies the acting was cheezy and over the top - something that can work in a big blockbuster action movie. But in the new ones the acting is just...wooden. No emotion. No character development. Just a bunch of clowns running around playing with their sabres.

And if someone tried to get me to actually tell the plot line of Eppy 1 I couldn't even do it.

I'm glad you enjoyed the new movies - in fact I envy you because as someone that was a huge Star Wars' fans Lucas ruined something for me. Frankly I'd rather feel as you do, even though I don't understand how anyone can like those pieces of crap movies.

[Calgary Flames]

But the reason there wasn't as much emotion was because there really wasn't much of it in general in the galaxy. This up to the end of Episode II were running smoothly until Palpatine (Who ends up to be the Dark Lord of the Sith) was given emergency powers to create the Clone army and that was the start of the darkness. He basically was running both sides The speratist's and the republic. Palpatine was the Phantom Menace, nobody knew he was the Lord of the Sith... hell in Episode I The Jedi didn't even know the Sith existed! They were mere representatives and peace keepers of the republic, not warriors.

The prequels take place in the same universe, but it wasn't the same as most Star Wars fans knew it.

To the casual Star Wars fan, I can see how your expectations were shattered but I consider myself pretty hardcore and have looked into the story deeper than casual fans.

[Mike F]

Originally posted by Calgary Flames@May 3 2005, 09:24 AM
What was wrong with the prequels that any other Star Wars movie didn't have? riddle me that!

-Bad acting
-Cheezy dialogue
-Annoying characters

The only thing I can guess as to why people hate the prequels is..... No Darth Vader, No Empire, Not Dark enough.

To me the story is there and that's all that I care about. It's Star Wars man!

Come on, give us some credit.

I guarantee everyone bashing the prequels went into Ep I wanting to like it, but it, and Ep II were just huge let downs.

The acting -- the lines in the original trilogy were cheesy but the acting was decent. In the prequels the dialogue is worse and, while McGregor and Liam Neeson have been decent, Jake Llyod and Hayden Christensen have been awful.

The Effects -- plug in your new Ep III DVD and watch the scenes where Luke and Obi enter Mos Eisley -- The new computer effects are cartoonish.

The Tone -- As I said before, watch the Battle of Hoth in Empire vs. The Gungan Battle in Ep I. Completely different tones; the first great sci-fi action, the latter a kids cartoon. There are hundreds of similar examples.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally posted by Calgary Flames@May 3 2005, 10:37 AM
But the reason there wasn't as much emotion was because there really wasn't much of it in general in the galaxy. This up to the end of Episode II were running smoothly until Palpatine (Who ends up to be the Dark Lord of the Sith) was given emergency powers to create the Clone army and that was the start of the darkness. He basically was running both sides The speratist's and the republic. Palpatine was the Phantom Menace, nobody knew he was the Lord of the Sith... hell in Episode I The Jedi didn't even know the Sith existed! They were mere representatives and peace keepers of the republic, not warriors.

The prequels take place in the same universe, but it wasn't the same as most Star Wars fans knew it.

To the casual Star Wars fan, I can see how your expectations were shattered but I consider myself pretty hardcore and have looked into the story deeper than casual fans.

Yes but characters should still have some depth otherwise they are just empty vessels. If you create a story with no emotion that is your own fault as the movie director/writer.

Fotze - love the analogy by your brother - that's exactly how I feel. I own the 3 original movies (the proper cut - not Lucas' ego-driven updated version) but I don't every feel like watching them.

[ernie]

Somewhere along the line the belief became that the Episodes 4-6 were great movies...well acted, well scrpited etc etc when in actual fact they were and always will be well loved and classic CHEESE! Episode I and II didn't change that except for using upgraded special effects. Very few complained about Episode 1 when it came out. Many critics loved it. People loved it (with the exception of Jar Jar...who the kids loved much like kids loved the Ewoks everyone else hated). People saw it again and again. I honestly didn't now anyone who weren't at a minimum entertained by the show. Then some sort of of backlash occurred due to the oversaturation of Star Wars in the media...all of a suden that it had poorly written scenes, there was a mix of bad, decent and good acting etc etc mattered. That was always present in the original ones as well.

It was a worthless movie. It was sooooo bad that Episode 2 was better according to many critics and they only gave Episode 2, 2 stars out of 5. yet looking back the same critics gave the phantom menace, a supposedly worse movie 4 or 5 stars. People went into Episodes 1 and 2 looking for a great movie and were delivered exactly what every other movie in the series has been...cheesy dialogue, some bad acting, some good acting, some annoying characters, some memorable lines and some good fight scenes. Lucas delivered pretty much the same quality of the original trilogy but peoples expectations were astronomical.

Kevin Smith I think understands that these aren't "masterpiece" movies in the classic sense and never have been. They are cheesy. They are fun. Nothing more.

I'll go into this installment with the same headspace I went into Episode 1 and 2: I'll be prepared for some good fight scenes, some cringe inducing lines/acting, and be prepared not to overthink anything and compare it to all things in the Star Wars universe picking up on inconsistencies etc etc etc and hopefully be entertained for a couple of hours as I have been on the other 5 movies. No it won't be a classic in my mind because quite simply I'm not a kid anymore. It takes more than some good fighting and lightsabres to be a classic movie to me now. It does take smart dialog (whether funny, crude, or dramatic) and great performances which Star Wars has never really had. It didn't take that as a kid....a lightsabre and blasters was all I needed and why those original 3 movies are classics in my mind and always will be. I know a lot of kids that absolutely love the Episode 1 and 2 and look at those movies as I did The Empire Strikes Back.

[MolsonInBothHands]

^^^

Well said... ask my seven year old son if they are classics, and I think you will know the answer. Star Wars gets away with being cheesy because it makes me a kid again. My son is the same age as I was when I first saw Star Wars in the theatre, watching him be pumped for more than a year for the next episode brings back so many memories. Trying to critique the movies with an adult perspective defeats the purpose of the whole movie IMO, and to some extent I agree it has become trendy to bash them.

[dustygoon]

The dialogue in the last two movies never had any of the "castle run in 12 parsecs" and "gundarks" and all those other worldy dialogue bits. His script writing was even more bland.

I just hope he hasn't cut out juicy story development in order to stay under 2 hours. He left too much to be done in this final eppy.

[CaptainCrunch]

SPOILER WARNING MORE FOOTAGE HERE

Just some add on clipage from TRL showling the duel between Anikan and Obi-Wan. you watch this and then you watch the final duel between an older Obi Wan and Darth Vader and you have to ask.

Did these guys even train for the 20 years between the duel, or did they hang out on a couch eating Geedo burgers, drinking blue milk and watching holo porn.

Without further ado

You hit too hard . . . a$$

[dustygoon]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@May 3 2005, 10:16 PM
Just some add on clipage from TRL showling the duel between Anikan and Obi-Wan. you watch this and then you watch the final duel between an older Obi Wan and Darth Vader and you have to ask.

Did these guys even train for the 20 years between the duel, or did they hang out on a couch eating Geedo burgers, drinking blue milk and watching holo porn.

Without further ado

You hit too hard . . . a$$

FOR FATAING SAKE!!!! I clicked on it thinking it was a clip of Episode IV but it looks like it is from EPIII.

[MarchHare]

The biggest problem with Episodes I and II is that they really lacked the snappy dialogue of the original trilogy.

To wit:

"Watch your mouth kid or you'll find yourself floating home."

"We had a small radiation leak, but we're fine here...everything's fine...how are you?"

"Were you afraid I was going to leave without giving you a goodbye kiss?"
"I'd just as soon kiss a Wookiee."
"I can arrange that!"

The closest thing the prequels gave us was:

"We came to rescue you."
"Nice job."

Other than that one line, there aren't really any memorable quotes at all. The banter between Han & Luke and Han & Leia is what made the originals. Even contrast the romance dialogue:

"You like me because I'm a scoundrel. There aren't enough scoundrels in your life."
"I happen to like nice men."
"I'm nice men."

"I love you."
"I know."

vs.

"I don't like the sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating--not like you. You're soft and smooth."

[CaptainCrunch]

When Anikan and Obiwan walk into the bar.

Obi-Wan: Why do I get the feeling you're going to be the death of me?
Anakin: Don't say that, master. You're the closest thing I have to a father.


The evil undertone of Palpatine

Palpatine: You don't need guidance, Anakin. In time, you will learn to trust your feelings. Then, you will be invincible. I have said it many times, you are the most gifted Jedi I have ever met.
Anakin: Thank you, Your Excellency.
Palpatine: I see you becoming the greatest of all the Jedi, Anakin. Even more powerful than Master Yoda.

When they're in the arena

Obi-Wan: Just relax, concentrate.
Anakin: What about Padme?
Obi-Wan: She seems to be on top of things.

Palpatine: It is with great reluctance that I have agreed to this calling. I love democracy. I love the Republic. Once this crisis has abated, I will lay down the powers you have given me!

There were some good lines, but the dialogue is pretty awkward throughout, and thats what I think makes the acting seem wooden. Personally I enjoyed all of the star wars movies thus far and am really looking forward to the last one.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by dustygoon+May 3 2005, 10:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dustygoon @ May 3 2005, 10:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-CaptainCrunch@May 3 2005, 10:16 PM
Just some add on clipage from TRL showling the duel between Anikan and Obi-Wan. you watch this and then you watch the final duel between an older Obi Wan and Darth Vader and you have to ask.

Did these guys even train for the 20 years between the duel, or did they hang out on a couch eating Geedo burgers, drinking blue milk and watching holo porn.

Without further ado

You hit too hard . . . a$$

FOR FATAING SAKE!!!! I clicked on it thinking it was a clip of Episode IV but it looks like it is from EPIII. [/b][/quote]
Sorry, I thought I made it pretty clear

[Calgary Flames]

Originally posted by Mike F+May 3 2005, 10:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike F @ May 3 2005, 10:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Calgary Flames@May 3 2005, 09:24 AM
What was wrong with the prequels that any other Star Wars movie didn't have? riddle me that!

-Bad acting
-Cheezy dialogue
-Annoying characters

The only thing I can guess as to why people hate the prequels is..... No Darth Vader, No Empire, Not Dark enough.

To me the story is there and that's all that I care about. It's Star Wars man!

Come on, give us some credit.

I guarantee everyone bashing the prequels went into Ep I wanting to like it, but it, and Ep II were just huge let downs.

The acting -- the lines in the original trilogy were cheesy but the acting was decent. In the prequels the dialogue is worse and, while McGregor and Liam Neeson have been decent, Jake Llyod and Hayden Christensen have been awful.

The Effects -- plug in your new Ep III DVD and watch the scenes where Luke and Obi enter Mos Eisley -- The new computer effects are cartoonish.

The Tone -- As I said before, watch the Battle of Hoth in Empire vs. The Gungan Battle in Ep I. Completely different tones; the first great sci-fi action, the latter a kids cartoon. There are hundreds of similar examples. [/b][/quote]
I agree with you here, just not to the extreme of calling the movies shinguard which many people here have. I've just learned to appreciate them and have fun watching them, as seperate entities of the Original trilogy.

The point you made that really stuck out to me was "Tone" the tone that we're used to has yet to be set, the Empire, the Darkness in the galaxy.

You can't really compare the tone in the Battle of Naboo and the Battle of Hoth in the story sense, but in a film sense. Yeah I agree.

It's all about the story.

[Calgary Flames]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch+May 3 2005, 04:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaptainCrunch @ May 3 2005, 04:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

FOR FATAING SAKE!!!! I clicked on it thinking it was a clip of Episode IV but it looks like it is from EPIII.

Sorry, I thought I made it pretty clear [/b][/quote]
Clear as day