5 shot in Mirage nightclub in Calgary - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Matata · 10-17-2008, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muta

A complete ban on guns, in general, is long overdue. Only trained professionals who have qualified themsleves through extensive and routine physical and psychological testing should be allowed to carry. Otherwise, I see no use, or purpose, for guns in society. This may not address the illegal gun trade / imports into Canada, but the less guns available to the general public, the better. It all adds up.

I agree, but let the farmers and hunters keep their rifles. Handguns and automatics have no place in the civilized world.

Guns only kill when used for their intended purpose.

Muta · 10-17-2008, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matata

I agree, but let the farmers and hunters keep their rifles. Handguns and automatics have no place in the civilized world.

Guns only kill when used for their intended purpose.

Meh, not sure why a farmer needs a gun. If it's to shoot gophers, can't they use a pellet gun? Just can't have a double standard there, that's all.

A hunter keeping his gun is also debateable. Perhaps if they went under the same physical and psychological testing as professionals, sure. And even then, only if their rifles are kept at a safeguarded place, which they have to sign out for each use. And hunting is only allowed in an area with a defined boundary. Because this is for entertainment purposes, again, this is debateable and is open for discussion Otherwise, that double standard exists again.

Phaneuf3 · 10-17-2008, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muta

Meh, not sure why a farmer needs a gun. If it's to shoot gophers, can't they use a pellet gun? Just can't have a double standard there, that's all.

Hard for a farmer to take down a coyote with a pellet gun.

ok, ok,....I get it · 10-17-2008, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boblobla

At least the shooter had terrible aim.

You sure, how many rounds did he fire? Maybe his hit rate is high?

Locke · 10-17-2008, 11:14 AM

I'd never heard of this nightclub before, but now that I have it kind of sounds like fun.

Do I have to bring my own gun, or are they supplied?

Khel · 10-17-2008, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muta

A complete ban on guns, in general, is long overdue. Only trained professionals who have qualified themsleves through extensive and routine physical and psychological testing should be allowed to carry. Otherwise, I see no use, or purpose, for guns in society. This may not address the illegal gun trade / imports into Canada, but the less guns available to the general public, the better. It all adds up.

Why would this make any difference? Even trained professionals have been known to use guns in a manner that is harmful to themselves or others.

The guns being used are illegally imported, but you propose to take guns away from people who are using them legally for things like target shooting, and hunting.

Currently gangs don't obey the existing laws on gun control, what makes you think they will obey a new law banning all guns? Only people that will be hurt by something like that are the people who are already obeying the law.

ok, ok,....I get it · 10-17-2008, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khel

Why would this make any difference? Even trained professionals have been known to use guns in a manner that is harmful to themselves or others.

The guns being used are illegally imported, but you propose to take guns away from people who are using them legally for things like target shooting, and hunting.

Currently gangs don't obey the existing laws on gun control, what makes you think they will obey a new law banning all guns? Only people that will be hurt by something like that are the people who are already obeying the law.

Maybe with less legal guns in circulation, they chances of illegal guns is less. I have not looked into this, but what are the stats for gun related crimes in places with very strick gun laws. I think ther UK has very strick laws......

Khel · 10-17-2008, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

Maybe with less legal guns in circulation, they chances of illegal guns is less. I have not looked into this, but what are the stats for gun related crimes in places with very strick gun laws. I think ther UK has very strick laws......

Yeah, the UK has very strict laws, and they haven't made a difference, gun violence has increased. I'll try and find a link.

I agree there is a problem with legally registered guns being used in these crimes, or being stolen and used. However the knee jerk "ban all guns" does nothing, may as well ban knives, or cars, or bricks, or anything else that can be used to hurt someone.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

BOSSY · 10-17-2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

Hard for a farmer to take down a coyote with a pellet gun.

A coyote... It would be hard to take down a gopher!

burn_baby_burn · 10-17-2008, 11:28 AM

It doesn't matter if guns are baned. Fully automatic weapons are banned yet I know exactly where to get one. If I can do it, anybody can.

Khel · 10-17-2008, 11:33 AM

Here we go, couple links about gun control:

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm - Report prepared by the CDC which in the results concludes "Evidence was insufficient to determine the effectiveness of any of these laws for the following reasons...."

http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html - Articale on how, even with gun control, the UK has more violent crime. Does not make sense, I mean everyone knows that guns kill people...

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/...useronline.pdf - Study from Harvard, titled "Would banning firearms reduce murder and suicide?"

Table 5 · 10-17-2008, 11:36 AM

While I agree that banning guns won't necessarily stop gangs from using them entirely....it would make a dent, and it would probably make a difference for non-gang related shootings....ie, the guy who decides he needs to end his life and take his family with him (but who probably wont go out of his way to import an illegal weapon).

Besides, what are the benefits to us having handguns anyway? I can see the point of a rifle/shotgun for hunting/farming....but what does the average citizen do with a handgun that doesn't lead to violence?

Table 5 · 10-17-2008, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khel

Articale on how, even with gun control, the UK has more violent crime.

Yeah, except for the two biggies, murder and rape.

I think when you take away guns, you substitute knives. Not a pretty sight, but I would assume a lot less people die from knife wounds then gun wounds....lot less easier for a guy to mow down a group of people with a knife.....and I'd assume drive-by-knifings are a little rarer as well.

Khel · 10-17-2008, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 5

While I agree that banning guns won't necessarily stop gangs from using them entirely....it would make a dent, and it would probably make a difference for non-gang related shootings....ie, the guy who decides he needs to end his life and take his family with him (but who probably wont go out of his way to import an illegal weapon).

Besides, what are the benefits to us having handguns anyway? I can see the point of a rifle/shotgun for hunting/farming....but what does the average citizen do with a handgun that doesn't lead to violence?

The guy that wants to commit suicide (and take his family with him) isn't doing it because he has a gun. If he didn't have a gun he'd find some other way to kill himself and his family.

Handgun owners use them for shooting competitions like http://www.ipsc-canada.org/ Many of the people who do this are also better trained on firearms use then most Police Officers, and gun safety is a priority.

REDVAN · 10-17-2008, 11:46 AM

Again, it's the few who ruin gun ownership for the many.

Criminals will have guns no matter if "normal" people do or not, so why do we have to have this gun control debate everytime something happens?

And, I'd like to hazard a guess that most domestic homicides are committed with weapons other than a gun. Like it or not, most people in Canada actually do just use their guns for hunting, for competition, and the like, and not for gang activity.

Muta · 10-17-2008, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

Hard for a farmer to take down a coyote with a pellet gun.

Shows how little I know about farming. Although, even with a high-powered pellet gun, that can kill / injure / scare away a coyote, can it not?

Khel · 10-17-2008, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muta

Shows how little I know about farming. Although, even with a high-powered pellet gun, that can kill / injure / scare away a coyote, can it not?

Ah, but with a high powered pellet gun, you might be able to kill/injure/scare a human as well....

Muta · 10-17-2008, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khel

The guy that wants to commit suicide (and take his family with him) isn't doing it because he has a gun. If he didn't have a gun he'd find some other way to kill himself and his family.

Handgun owners use them for shooting competitions like http://www.ipsc-canada.org/ Many of the people who do this are also better trained on firearms use then most Police Officers, and gun safety is a priority.

Meh. Table has a point. What's the point in the average citizen having a handgun? Guns were designed for the purpose to inflict harm on another human being. Since their creation, they have become one of man's most lethally used weapons. Guns are important when they're on the side of law enforcement for obivous reasons, but that's it. Nobody else really has a good reason to need a gun.

The less guns in society, the better. Right now we have illegal guns and legal guns as commonplace in our society. If we can eliminate that just down to illegal guns, even better. I would bet that that the elimination of guns in general would have somewhat of an impact on the importing of illegal guns as well, since they then become more out in the open and riskier to import. The chances of gun crimes go down as a result.

Every step helps, even if they are little ones.

Muta · 10-17-2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khel

Ah, but with a high powered pellet gun, you might be able to kill/injure/scare a human as well....

Okay, fine. Go back to a low-powered pellet gun. Shoot the coyote, scare him off. Problem solved.

Jetsfan · 10-17-2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khel

Here we go, couple links about gun control:

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm - Report prepared by the CDC which in the results concludes "Evidence was insufficient to determine the effectiveness of any of these laws for the following reasons...."

http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html - Articale on how, even with gun control, the UK has more violent crime. Does not make sense, I mean everyone knows that guns kill people...

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/...useronline.pdf - Study from Harvard, titled "Would banning firearms reduce murder and suicide?"

Thank you for posting these. Its nice to see a little truth instead of the usual brainwashing.