Grammar question

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by jammies

I would use both: "I am writing to you to tell you how you can effect change and positively affect this situation." Then, whoever is reading your missive will say, "This man is a grammar GOD!!!" and do whatever it is you say in the rest of your message like a hypnotized sheep.

Yes! a man of brilliance. Well said Jammies.

[Flamesguy_SJ]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

Go to askoxford.com for uses of effect as both a noun and a verb in the same sentence. Or ask Locke! He seems to be quite the linguist.

You might even say he's cunning...

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by Flamesguy_SJ

You might even say he's cunning...

I wasn't going to go there.

[GirlySports]

Boss hands me a spreadsheet

"Which of these items are yours?"

"None of them are mine"

He nods.

He hands me another spreadsheet

"Which of these items aren't yours"?

"None of them aren't mine"

He looks at me funny.

--

Why is my second answer wrong? I used exact same structure as my first answer.

[REDVAN]

double negatives? so all of them are yours.

[Flamesguy_SJ]

edit: beaten to the punch.

[GirlySports]

So I answer.

"Which one of these items aren't yours?"

by

"They're all mine".

Seems weird.

[REDVAN]

Well,

None of them aren't mine = They're all mine

Same thing, just one is less weird :-p

[Flamesguy_SJ]

or "All of them are not mine" would also work

edit: ....right? ahhh i'm confusing myself lol

[icarus]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Boss hands me a spreadsheet

"Which of these items are yours?"

"None of them are mine"

He nods.

He hands me another spreadsheet

"Which of these items aren't yours"?

"None of them aren't mine"

He looks at me funny.

--

Why is my second answer wrong? I used exact same structure as my first answer.

Both are grammatically incorrect. The second one has been explained above. The first has incorrect subject/verb agreement; 'none' is singular, thus you should have responded, "none of them is mine." Now an interesting question is whether your boss was correct or incorrect; can 'which' be both singular and plural? 'Which ones?' presumably could have a plural answer. I tend to think 'which' can be both singular and plural (like 'you'), and thus "which is" and "which are" can each be correct depending on the context.

[STeeLy]

Originally Posted by icarus

Both are grammatically incorrect. The second one has been explained above. The first has incorrect subject/verb agreement; 'none' is singular, thus you should have responded, "none of them is mine." Now an interesting question is whether your boss was correct or incorrect; can 'which' be both singular and plural? 'Which ones?' presumably could have a plural answer. I tend to think 'which' can be both singular and plural (like 'you'), and thus "which is" and "which are" can each be correct depending on the context.

Would she not be able to answer the first question with "None of these are mine"? Would that be grammatically correct?

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Boss hands me a spreadsheet

"Which of these items are yours?"

"None of them are mine"

He nods.

He hands me another spreadsheet

"Which of these items aren't yours"?

"None of them aren't mine"

He looks at me funny.

--

Why is my second answer wrong? I used exact same structure as my first answer.

His wording is rather clumsy, but your answer fits the question (as long as 'they' were all yours - which is what you said).

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by icarus

Both are grammatically incorrect. The second one has been explained above. The first has incorrect subject/verb agreement; 'none' is singular, thus you should have responded, "none of them is mine." Now an interesting question is whether your boss was correct or incorrect; can 'which' be both singular and plural? 'Which ones?' presumably could have a plural answer. I tend to think 'which' can be both singular and plural (like 'you'), and thus "which is" and "which are" can each be correct depending on the context.

I'm not sure, but I don't believe that is correct. "None" should be plural in this context because "them" is plural, and the usage does not conflict the former's meaning.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by Gozer

I'm not sure, but I don't believe that is correct. "None" should be plural in this context because "them" is plural, and the usage does not conflict the former's meaning.

Well as you say, you are not sure. 'Them' doesn't matter, and in any case you wouldn't say "one of them are mine."

[icarus]

Originally Posted by STeeLy

Would she not be able to answer the first question with "None of these are mine"? Would that be grammatically correct?

No, that is a very common grammatical mistake. "None of these is mine."

[Gozer]

Thanks ic!

[icarus]

That is a good test by the way: substitute 'one' for 'none' and that will help you determine the correct usage.

[Gozer]

If "none" is singular, is "zero" as well?

I have two playing cards.
I have one playing card.
I have zero playing card?

[icarus]

Well here you go, from dictionary.com:

Usage Note: It is widely asserted that none is equivalent to no one, and hence requires a singular verb and singular pronoun: None of the prisoners was given his soup. It is true that none is etymologically derived from the Old English word ān, "one," but the word has been used as both a singular and a plural noun from Old English onward. The plural usage appears in the King James Bible as well as the works of John Dryden and Edmund Burke and is widespread in the works of respectable writers today. Of course, the singular usage is perfectly acceptable. The choice between a singular or plural verb depends on the desired effect. Both options are acceptable in this sentence: None of the conspirators has (or have) been brought to trial. When none is modified by almost, however, it is difficult to avoid treating the word as a plural: Almost none of the officials were (not was) interviewed by the committee. None can only be plural in its use in sentences such as None but his most loyal supporters believe (not believes) his story. See Usage Notes at every, neither, nothing.

I was always taught in the course of my English degree to use singular verbs with 'none', but I guess it is acceptable to use plural verbs as well. So, there you go. Carry on.

[missdpuck]

Also "woe is me" ---"woe is I".....