Marxist-Leninist

[Devils'Advocate]

BTW - last election CBC reported on a riding where the ballots had been counted at ONE station out of, like, 100. Why report on one polling station, I don't know... but in this one 18 voted for the Marxist-Leninist party, 14 Liberal, 14 Conservative, 10 NDP and 1 independent. Peter Mansbridge was, "We do not expect that this lead will hold".

But, what kind of polling station is that? Philosophy/Arts wing of a university? A neighborhood of pranksters?

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

BTW - last election CBC reported on a riding where the ballots had been counted at ONE station out of, like, 100. Why report on one polling station, I don't know... but in this one 18 voted for the Marxist-Leninist party, 14 Liberal, 14 Conservative, 10 NDP and 1 independent. Peter Mansbridge was, "We do not expect that this lead will hold".

But, what kind of polling station is that? Philosophy/Arts wing of a university? A neighborhood of pranksters?

Either way, somehow they managed to get 18 people to buy into their system, and have now taken a lead in the standings.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

But, what kind of polling station is that? Philosophy/Arts wing of a university? A neighborhood of pranksters?

Maybe there is a commune in the riding?

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by flamingchina

I used to work with a Russian girl who said that if there was a communist party in her riding she'd vote for it. Although, from what I can tell about how she talked about her parents, she was part of the "priviledged" in Russia (travelled extensively during communism, parents are quite wealthy, etc.)

Ha, of course your friend want that life back, there is no doubt they were privelleged party pigs if they were allowed to travel. My dad once travelled to West Germany when he was 12 for a couple of days....that act alone made him "tainted by the west" in the eyes of the government and he wasn't allowed to go to med school because of it. THAT is how regular people are treated under Communism....their lives and dreams are toyed with. You were allowed to occasionally travel to perhaps another Communist country, and that is about it....and even then there was heavy chance of surveillance.

Anyone here see The Lives of Others? A terrific movie that should give you a very good idea of reality (even though a lot of people think even that was too nice).

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Ha, of course your friend want that life back, there is no doubt they were privelleged party pigs if they were allowed to travel. My dad once travelled to West Germany when he was 12 for a couple of days....that act alone made him "tainted by the west" in the eyes of the government and he wasn't allowed to go to med school because of it. THAT is how regular people are treated under Communism....their lives and dreams are toyed with. You were allowed to occasionally travel to perhaps another Communist country, and that is about it....and even then there was heavy chance of surveillance.

Anyone here see The Lives of Others? A terrific movie that should give you a very good idea of reality (even though a lot of people think even that was too nice).

Good way of putting it. What a disgusting life to live off the backs of others and the at the point of a gun too. Absolutely disgusting that she would want that here again, how far out of touch must this woman be?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by peter12

Good way of putting it. What a disgusting life to live off the backs of others...

that seems to be the same way in the USA too lately ...

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by flip

Huh what?

Are you trying to imply that all communism leads to dictatorships?

Wasn't communism defined by Marx and Lenin as a "dictatorship of the proletariat"? Of course, their dream was that eventually the dictatorship could be removed... but that just never happened in most places communism took hold as government.


It is probably a more "natural" type of system, but I wouldn't choose to live under it.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

that seems to be the same way in the USA too lately ...

Oh, and once again you step in with the 'well the US isn't any better argument.'

Seriously, its getting old. Sure, there might be a lot of things WRONG down south right now, but its nowhere NEAR compared to have bad it has been in numerous communist countries throughout history.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Azure

Oh, and once again you step in with the 'well the US isn't any better argument.'

Seriously, its getting old. Sure, there might be a lot of things WRONG down south right now, but its nowhere NEAR compared to have bad it has been in numerous communist countries throughout history.

Have you ever been to any communist countries before?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

that seems to be the same way in the USA too lately ...

Do you understand capitalism vs Marxism?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by peter12

Do you understand capitalism vs Marxism?

I wasn't making any reference to capitalism vs marxism, just made a comment on the recent events of the USA, notably the CEOs making a killing on their reverence packages. Calm down, peter.

Pure communism doesn't work because of corruption. I get that. Pure capitalism doesn't work either too, and we're seeing that now, among many other problems.

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by troutman

Castro seduced more chicas than Wilt Chamberlain.

I know all about Cuba. I can see it from Florida!!!!

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Wasn't communism defined by Marx and Lenin as a "dictatorship of the proletariat"? Of course, their dream was that eventually the dictatorship could be removed... but that just never happened in ALL places communism took hold as government.


It is probably a more "natural" type of system, but I wouldn't choose to live under it.

FIXED

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I wasn't making any reference to capitalism vs marxism, just made a comment on the recent events of the USA, notably the CEOs making a killing on their reverence packages. Calm down, peter.

Pure communism doesn't work because of corruption. I get that. Pure capitalism doesn't work either too, and we're seeing that now, among many other problems.

It's more complicated than that. Communism is essentially a utopian, one that is totally unrealizable by conventional means. Communism has implicit violence, it assumes that the state must coerce individuals to accomplishing the final goal of society.

Capitalism is just a social institution created around human nature. It assumes freedom, not equality.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by peter12

It's more complicated than that. Communism is essentially a utopian, one that is totally unrealizable by conventional means. Communism has implicit violence, it assumes that the state must coerce individuals to accomplishing the final goal of society.

Capitalism is just a social institution created around human nature. It assumes freedom, not equality.

Theoretically, yes. But we all know what happens on either extreme, right?

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Theoretically, yes. But we all know what happens on either extreme, right?

They end up being pretty much the same.....

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

They end up being pretty much the same.....

We need only look at North Korea and Somalia to see this. Complete control by the government or a complete lack of government typically means the vast majority of the populace will suffer horribly while a tiny few have riches beyond imagination.

You can claim that Bill Gates has riches beyond imagination, but the majority of people living in between the extremes have enough to eat.

[Phanuthier]

^ Exactly

For every story of T5's about returning to communism, there are those that suffer under (usually new) capitalistic societies. And, as I have said, there are those that long for a return to the old ways - rich, poor, business owners, employees, young, old, etc.

Quite frankly, I would rather live in capitalism because I know it would be better for me. But on a whole, I know both don't work. I think the balance has to be struck between capitalism and socialism to promote opportunity and entrepreneurship, but put the dog leash on before things just get out of control.

I understand peters argument that communism usually leads to a dictatorship, but much the same, capitalism usually leads to greed and an avalanche consequence. (in brief)

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

We need only look at North Korea and Somalia to see this. Complete control by the government or a complete lack of government typically means the vast majority of the populace will suffer horribly while a tiny few have riches beyond imagination.

You can claim that Bill Gates has riches beyond imagination, but the majority of people living in between the extremes have enough to eat.

Exactly. In my town we recently had a self-described anarchist run for mayor..go figure. Another utopian ideal that can't work due to human nature or whatever you might want to call it. There are plenty of Cubans here in SoFl...in some parts of Miami English is useless. Now of course because these people are now in the US I'm speaking of a biased population. Most of them say the majority of Cubans hate Castro but hide it out of fear. Of course. But some of them feel they are better off as they believe they couldn't function outside of that system. I went to Czech Rep, Germany and Russia not long after the Wall came down. People were in a daze. Most of the younger people I met were thrilled with what was happening although many of them still didn't quite understand the concept of being paid for productivity. The older people were crying for the old system, the new was too overwhelming for them, they were used to being taken care of to some extent.I stayed in a dorm at Charles lUniversity in Prague for awhile ...the dorm was a dismal place. Above the door was a speaker from which the Party doctrine was drilled into the students every morning and at various times througout the day. My first night in Prague found me at the Rolling Stones historic concert. I'll never forget the busses from like every country in Europe...the city was packed..what a celebration. What a privilege to have been there for that!

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Table 5

haha, that's sort of my point. Nobody can practice communism.

I think it can if it's done in a small way by dedicated people communism can be practised. Communes, as far as I know are the true communists and are active and prosperous in Israel and and here. Look at the Hutterites.