Schooling Mentally Challenged Children

[photon]

Alright, it's possible to discuss an issue without asking if the other person was held back.. calm down or the thread will get locked.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by fotze

What is that from the Full Metal Jacket book of threats. Punish everyone for one poster. Ruddstud should be known as Pvt. Pyle.

You from Texas Fotze?

[flip]

Originally Posted by ruddstud

Let me EDUCATE YOU on the CBE. Go to their website and look at their special programs: PLP, L and L, K and E, Access.... Lets hold a special needs back for a few years so they can learn how to add... HAHA. DO some research before you write out your thoughts. Were you held back??

Originally Posted by ruddstud

How do you learn properly? Ever heard of Multiple Intelligences? Look it up, you might learn something about yourself.

Wait did you just quote yourself and cuss yourself out?

That is classic.

[bigtmac19]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

I wrote this:



You highlighted my next paragraph and responded with this:



So did you actually read my post.

And again, sorry for not being as clear as I could.

You're right, after I went back and read again, I must have been brain dead or something, I messed up. Sorry!

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by bigtmac19

You're right, after I went back and read again, I must have been brain dead or something, I messed up. Sorry!

S*** happens. I do it as well.

Well that being said...when I was in 8th grade I was exempt from physically attending social studies class twice a week to tutor "mentally challenged " kids. I managed to get As in that class through independent study. In any case I think it helped the students and myself Some of the students were more willing to listen to me than a teacher and I consider it an extremely valuable experience.

Always rocks to actually make a real difference to someone.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

1. Peanut butter is not a need, not being exposed to a potentially dangerous situation which can result in death would qualify as a need in my opinion.

2. It must really suck for your kid being in the same class as the "######" I mean how is your little angel ever going to get over being associated with a mental disease and will she be stigmatized with it for the rest of her life. Yeah it would be optimal for the other kid to have an aide in order to help the kid be accustomed to a classroom environment, but lets not forget who the real victim here is, it isn't the kid who will go onto grade 5 and move on with life, it is the kid who will forever be talked about as the "######" for the rest of their lives by insanely ignorant people who hide behind definitions in the DSM-IV-TR to hide their prejudice. And to the poster who said that it was a correct term, go up to some people who I know who have a kid with autism and call their kid a ######. It is because of the stares that the autistic kid gets from adults and other kids that his younger siblings don't want to be seen in public with him. When you use the term "######" you are placing a lesser value on them as people, it isn't about being PC, but rather it is about being compassionate to the suffering of others with diseases that are completely out of their control.
You wouldn't use a derogatory term to describe someone who had cancer, why would you do the same for someone who had a different disease? Because it inconveniences your kid slightly in grade 4, hell I would argue that the most useful thing that your kid will learn this year isn't math or science, but rather a bit more about the world. These kids can teach you a lot more than you give them credit for.

[redforever]

Something seems wrong with this picture of a special needs child and no aide.

Children with special needs are funded over and above what other students receive. I dont believe there is a carte blanche amount given to each special needs child, the severity of the disability comes into play as well. And the funding does follow the child so it would have been allocated to the school that the special needs child attends.

I would be asking the principal of that school what he is doing with those funds.

[photon]

Please use this thread for peanut butter allergy discussion and keep this thread on the original topic, thanks.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=63615

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

When you use the term "######" you are placing a lesser value on them as people, it isn't about being PC, but rather it is about being compassionate to the suffering of others with diseases that are completely out of their control.
You wouldn't use a derogatory term to describe someone who had cancer, why would you do the same for someone who had a different disease?

This is what I dont get, why is the term mentally ######ed any worse than mentally challenged, both are labels, both mean the same thing. In another 20 years its going to be un-PC to say mentally challenged too we'll have to move on to the next PC term, how about diversely learning affected?

It all depends on how you use the term if it is in a bad way or not.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Swarly

This is what I dont get, why is the term mentally ######ed any worse than mentally challenged, both are labels, both mean the same thing. In another 20 years its going to be un-PC to say mentally challenged too we'll have to move on to the next PC term, how about diversely learning affected?

It all depends on how you use the term if it is in a bad way or not.

I volunteer with the Special Olympics and both the kids and youg adults take offense when someone refers to them as a "######"

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by flip

Why is ######ed even offensive other than someone said it is? to me it has no other meaning than to be mentally challenged. So get off your high horse and stop comparing calling someone ######ed to calling them a n***er.

It's offensive to people that are mentally challenged and people of assocation. If they don't like that word, what gives you the right to use it besides being ignorant and self-centered? You need to catch up with the times.

The word is just as offense as racial and cultural slurs. I know this from knowing many people from different races, cultures and various mental disabilities. Go up to a parent with a mentally challenged kid, use that work and find out. You'll get similar respsonses.

[ruddstud]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

1. Peanut butter is not a need, not being exposed to a potentially dangerous situation which can result in death would qualify as a need in my opinion.

2. It must really suck for your kid being in the same class as the "######" I mean how is your little angel ever going to get over being associated with a mental disease and will she be stigmatized with it for the rest of her life. Yeah it would be optimal for the other kid to have an aide in order to help the kid be accustomed to a classroom environment, but lets not forget who the real victim here is, it isn't the kid who will go onto grade 5 and move on with life, it is the kid who will forever be talked about as the "######" for the rest of their lives by insanely ignorant people who hide behind definitions in the DSM-IV-TR to hide their prejudice. And to the poster who said that it was a correct term, go up to some people who I know who have a kid with autism and call their kid a ######. It is because of the stares that the autistic kid gets from adults and other kids that his younger siblings don't want to be seen in public with him. When you use the term "######" you are placing a lesser value on them as people, it isn't about being PC, but rather it is about being compassionate to the suffering of others with diseases that are completely out of their control.
You wouldn't use a derogatory term to describe someone who had cancer, why would you do the same for someone who had a different disease? Because it inconveniences your kid slightly in grade 4, hell I would argue that the most useful thing that your kid will learn this year isn't math or science, but rather a bit more about the world. These kids can teach you a lot more than you give them credit for.

very well said...

[Dion]

Originally Posted by flip

Why is ######ed even offensive other than someone said it is? to me it has no other meaning than to be mentally challenged. So get off your high horse and stop comparing calling someone ######ed to calling them a n***er.

Special Olympics and the R-word

Leading the way in promoting acceptance of people with intellectual disabilities, Special Olympics opposes prejudice and discrimination continuously working to dispel the negative stereotypes associated with this population — the use of word r-word (######) being one such stereotype. In a world that has worked to eliminate racial and ethnic prejudicial language such as the N word, among others, the r-word is gaining popularity.

The r-word has gone mainstream, beyond the core population of its origins and primary meaning. Young and old people alike use the word. In the majority of its usage the word conveys a negative message. Although many people may not understand the hurtful impact, the truth is, it hurts, even when people do not mean it that way. No matter the usage, the discriminatory impact on those people who are the target use of the word is significant.

Special Olympics is working to eliminate the pejorative use of the word ###### (or comparable word in different cultures) from use in everyday language, and more importantly create a world of dignity, acceptance and inclusion for people with disability. Special Olympics is reaching out to educate and build awareness of the destructive power of the word through schools, parents, and young people.

http://www.specialolympics.org/Speci...the+R-word.htm

[flip]

Originally Posted by Dion

Special Olympics and the R-word

Leading the way in promoting acceptance of people with intellectual disabilities, Special Olympics opposes prejudice and discrimination continuously working to dispel the negative stereotypes associated with this population — the use of word r-word (######) being one such stereotype. In a world that has worked to eliminate racial and ethnic prejudicial language such as the N word, among others, the r-word is gaining popularity.

The r-word has gone mainstream, beyond the core population of its origins and primary meaning. Young and old people alike use the word. In the majority of its usage the word conveys a negative message. Although many people may not understand the hurtful impact, the truth is, it hurts, even when people do not mean it that way. No matter the usage, the discriminatory impact on those people who are the target use of the word is significant.

Special Olympics is working to eliminate the pejorative use of the word ###### (or comparable word in different cultures) from use in everyday language, and more importantly create a world of dignity, acceptance and inclusion for people with disability. Special Olympics is reaching out to educate and build awareness of the destructive power of the word through schools, parents, and young people.

http://www.specialolympics.org/Speci...the+R-word.htm

Sorry but until you can give me concrete evidence that this word was specifically created to be derogatory I'm not buying this argument.

I still think you're trying to tell me I have to be politically correct and I don't want to have to be.

EDIT: wow I actually read that article. What a bunch of self loathing crap. I really wish people could stop trying to lower their situation by comparing themselves to other stereotyped and neglected parts of society. I really empathize with ######ed people but that link you posted is actually hilarious. They make it sound like ######s are being chased with pitchforks and torches. I know there is a lot of discrimination against them, but it is getting better, hell they have their own olympics. This isn't the 1940s anymore, these people have a lot more understanding and respect than they ever did.

Here is a phenomenal article on the use of the word ###### and its origins. As the article states any word can be offensive in context and the word ###### does not have offensive origins like say the N word. So unless you misconstrue my use of the word, then my using the word ###### should be ok. I'm not the one making offensive inferences, you are. And I don't think it is acceptable for you to judge the meaning of my speech with the limited knowledge you have of me.

http://www.helium.com/items/688466-i...discriminatory

[Dion]

Originally Posted by flip

Sorry but until you can give me concrete evidence that this word was specifically created to be derogatory I'm not buying this argument.

I still think you're trying to tell me I have to be politically correct and I don't want to have to be.

WTF are you talking about? I gave you a link to a group of people who don't like being called a ######. To them the term is offensive. And no i'm not telling you to be politcally correct. You've shown already that you don't gave a damn about anyone else but yourself.

EDIT: wow I actually read that article. What a bunch of self loathing crap. I really wish people could stop trying to lower their situation by comparing themselves to other stereotyped and neglected parts of society. I really empathize with ######ed people but that link you posted is actually hilarious. They make it sound like ######s are being chased with pitchforks and torches. I know there is a lot of discrimination against them, but it is getting better, hell they have their own olympics. This isn't the 1940s anymore, these people have a lot more understanding and respect than they ever did.

Your lack of empathy for these people is astounding. Go volunteer for this organization like i have and talk to these kids and young adults. They could probably educate you better than i could. Then again it's all self loathing crap to you.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Dion

WTF are you talking about? I gave you a link to a group of people who don't like being called a ######. To them the term is offensive. And no i'm not telling you to be politcally correct. You've shown already that you don't gave a damn about anyone else but yourself.



Your lack of empathy for these people is astounding. Go volunteer for this organization like i have and talk to these kids and young adults. They could probably educate you better than i could. Then again it's all self loathing crap to you.

Do you need a band aid that bleeding heart is probably dangerous?

I hate to make inferences about people I don't know but from the sounds of it you take more pride in making others feel like crap than you actually do from helping ######s. Do you actually take any joy in it or do you only get off on putting down other people because they don't have the exact same world view as you.

Your lack of understanding of anyone else sickens me. and to go so far as to question me and my morals and ethics is pathetic. I hope you can get over yourself and realize that to be a decent human has to be exactly like you.

The only reason ###### is offensive is because of people like you. If you would get over it no one would care. I have a lot of respect for the gay community because they "took back" words like queer and fag. They could have seen it as offensive but they didn't they had some perserverance and didn't let it get them down. They didnt' just complain like you are and make extremely offensive remarks about someone you don't know.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by flip

Do you need a band aid that bleeding heart is probably dangerous?

I hate to make inferences about people I don't know but from the sounds of it you take more pride in making others feel like crap than you actually do from helping ######s. Do you actually take any joy in it or do you only get off on putting down other people because they don't have the exact same world view as you.

What a buch of bull! I don't go around this forum or in real life for that matter, putting people down as you say. If i see some i disagree with then yes i will speak up.

Your lack of understanding of anyone else sickens me. and to go so far as to question me and my morals and ethics is pathetic. I hope you can get over yourself and realize that to be a decent human has to be exactly like you.

Your lack of empathy for others sickens me. A group asks that the term ###### not be used in reference to them, but, no, you get your nickers in a knot because you might have to be poltically correct. On top of that you mock and ridicule these people saying thier efforts are a bunch of self loathing crap.

The only reason ###### is offensive is because of people like you. If you would get over it no one would care. I have a lot of respect for the gay community because they "took back" words like queer and fag. They could have seen it as offensive but they didn't they had some perserverance and didn't let it get them down. They didnt' just complain like you are and make extremely offensive remarks about someone you don't know.

Because of people like me? Excuse me while i get my hip waders the bull is getting..... I'm not in that catergory but the organization i volunteer with has people who are. Those kids and young adults get that term thrown in thier face quite often. You may not find it offensive but they do. I could be like you and say sorry i'm going to use whatever term i want, however i respect thier request and will not use it.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by flip

The only reason ###### is offensive is because of people like you.

No. The reason it is offensive, which you seem completely incapable of understanding, is that it implies directly and conotatively that the person to who it is applied is of less value as a human. It's exactly the same as every racial epithet out there. Whether it is your intention or not, that is what you are both saying and implying by using the word.

It becomes most offensive when you first demonstrate that you are aware that there are perfectly acceptable substitutes, and then give no reason for disregarding them other than sheer laziness and some misguided desire to 'take back' a word to which you have absolutely no connection.

That you have no connection to this word is quite completely demonstrated by the profound lack of understanding in your first post. Subsequently, there have been a number of educators and parents in this very thread, and no doubt were you to engage in this conversation in real life you would find the same, who have been trying to explain to you why your objections are both unsound and invalid, but you have been either unable or unwilling to hear these people.

Another thing your poorly thought out defense of this word demonstrates is your lack of understanding regarding the use and evolution of language. You seem to be under the misguided impression that words a) have fixed meanings, and b) that change in language is bad.

These are both quite clearly wrong. A simple example would be that, in old english, the word for wife, wif, was gender neutral. One referred to "that wife" or "my wife, it..." clearly this grammatical construction has negative and awkward social consequences. One could make a case, and someone's linguistics thesis has probably been written, on the genderization of the word "wife" being the first step towards gender equality.

The loss of words such as '######' or racial epithets from our language is not a bad thing, nor do all words need reclamation. Homosexuals and to a large extent blacks have reclaimed words partially due to the fact that they were frequently killed because of their differences. The same is not necessarily true of the mentally disabled, but the discrimination against them is real, and is contained in the use of a word to describe them as a group which is dismissive of them as people.

If you choose to continue to use this word, you merely reveal yourself as both insensitive and ignorant about what it is you are doing when you use it.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Dion

What a buch of bull! I don't go around this forum or in real life for that matter, putting people down as you say. If i see some i disagree with then yes i will speak up.

Hey you've been doing it to me for about two pages now.

Your lack of empathy for others sickens me. A group asks that the term ###### not be used in reference to them, but, no, you get your nickers in a knot because you might have to be poltically correct. On top of that you mock and ridicule these people saying thier efforts are a bunch of self loathing crap.

What lack of empathy? I don't doubt that some people use ###### as a slur, that doesn't mean that I have to use it as a slur. The fact that ######s find the clinically accepted word to describe them offensive isn't my problem. Maybe they should learn to understand the concept of context.



And for the record the people I mocked are clearly not ######ed because I doubt the guy who wrote that article you linked is ######ed.

Because of people like me? Excuse me while i get my hip waders the bull is getting..... I'm not in that catergory but the organization i volunteer with has people who are. Those kids and young adults get that term thrown in thier face quite often. You may not find it offensive but they do. I could be like you and say sorry i'm going to use whatever term i want, however i respect thier request and will not use it.

Maybe you're missing the point. It is offensive to them because of people like you and those that use it in a derogatory fashion. What part of this can you not understand? By definiton a word has no inherant offensiveness it is only the context in which it is used that makes it derogetory. Excluding all people who use ###### as a slur then that leaves just those of use who think it means what it does mean, which is slow to learn and those like you who think it is a slur.

So if I don't think it is a slur and you do why is that my problem? Maybe you need to adjust your thinking. Have you ever thought that maybe you're the one who is unreasonable for trying to control the way I talk?

I'll say it one more time because clearly you are having a hard time understanding it. There is nothing inherantly offensive about ######. There are only two groups of people who make it offensive. People like you and people who use it as a slur. If we ignore the people who mean it as a slur that just leaves you to misinterpret all the people like me who have nothing against ######s but are labelled by people llike you.

Can you not see the irony that you are making rude and offensive inferences about me because I don't prescibe to your specific worldly view? You are turning into the exact thing that you hate!


You really need to read fotze's post from George Carlin because you are living in a dream world. At some point we need to tell it like it is and stop using euphamisms for everything.

[flip]

Originally Posted by driveway

No. The reason it is offensive, which you seem completely incapable of understanding, is that it implies directly and conotatively that the person to who it is applied is of less value as a human. It's exactly the same as every racial epithet out there. Whether it is your intention or not, that is what you are both saying and implying by using the word.

It becomes most offensive when you first demonstrate that you are aware that there are perfectly acceptable substitutes, and then give no reason for disregarding them other than sheer laziness and some misguided desire to 'take back' a word to which you have absolutely no connection.

That you have no connection to this word is quite completely demonstrated by the profound lack of understanding in your first post. Subsequently, there have been a number of educators and parents in this very thread, and no doubt were you to engage in this conversation in real life you would find the same, who have been trying to explain to you why your objections are both unsound and invalid, but you have been either unable or unwilling to hear these people.

Another thing your poorly thought out defense of this word demonstrates is your lack of understanding regarding the use and evolution of language. You seem to be under the misguided impression that words a) have fixed meanings, and b) that change in language is bad.

These are both quite clearly wrong. A simple example would be that, in old english, the word for wife, wif, was gender neutral. One referred to "that wife" or "my wife, it..." clearly this grammatical construction has negative and awkward social consequences. One could make a case, and someone's linguistics thesis has probably been written, on the genderization of the word "wife" being the first step towards gender equality.

The loss of words such as '######' or racial epithets from our language is not a bad thing, nor do all words need reclamation. Homosexuals and to a large extent blacks have reclaimed words partially due to the fact that they were frequently killed because of their differences. The same is not necessarily true of the mentally disabled, but the discrimination against them is real, and is contained in the use of a word to describe them as a group which is dismissive of them as people.

If you choose to continue to use this word, you merely reveal yourself as both insensitive and ignorant about what it is you are doing when you use it.

Wow. I might have to give up. You bleeding hearts are really starting to sicken me.

Almost every argument you give is just laughable and completely missing the point of this argument.

I'll say for about the millionth time. ###### IS NOT INHERENTLY OFFENSIVE. It has several different contexts that it can be used in.

Just because you can't understand that a word can have more than one strict concrete meaning is beyond me.