Two school systems. Does it cost more?

[psicodude]

Originally Posted by kootenayguy9

I should stated in my post that I work for a school in the CBE that is a program of choice that is unavailable in the Catholic System. That is the reason why we have many students applying to come to our school from the Seperate Board.

Dude, your post stated that the Catholic system is "crap". Rationalize it anyway you want, but you were wrong.

Maybe it was more accurate to say that the 2 boards specialize in different areas?

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

As a matter of fact they do, at least they did when I was there.
For the most part religon classes at the high school level focus a great deal more on other religions and the similarities/differences between Catholicism and the others.

From CSSD website:

Religious education has four essential characteristics. It is Trinitarian. It recognizes God as the creator. It recognizes Jesus, his son, who reveals God to us and, in turn, reveals God's Spirit. It is based on Sacred Scripture. It is also based on the life experience of students.

Religious education is presented within the tradition of the Catholic Faith Community which provides students with experiences of prayer, faith, love and justice. Teachers and students integrate gospel values in day to day activities as well as in service projects in the school and community whenever opportunities arise.

Seems pretty limited.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Ayrahb

How about adding an atheist school system or a charter school?

I would love to have my kids go to a school that has no religious content in their curriculum or any other activity. And, no, CBE does not qualify as they do fail to provide such an environment.

FTR, I am not an atheist.

It's not about "adding" this or that... The Catholic school system wasn't "added".... it was Canada that was "added". Keeping the Catholic school system was a condition of confederation at the time and pre-dates Canada as a nation.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by guzzy

It's not what I have done but what I haven't done. I would never ask the country to change because of my beliefs. I believe that those that come here and try to change the way we have been doing things for over 100 years can all go home. If you don't like it...leave. Don't change the country for those who come here and don't agree with the way we run OUR country. They came here to change their lives for the better. Why are they trying to change our lives because they don't believe in the way we do things?

So wait do you believe in canada's belief's or not. Canada is a Multi-Cultural country. It is not a "melting pot". People can keep thier beliefs and traditions. Is it the new immigrants you want out or the old ones, ie: pacifist religious sects?

And by thw way, it is what you have done for the country. If you love it so much what have you done to help it?

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

But do they discuss the possibility that all of it may be wrong....that there is no "god" et al.

No, that would defeat the purpose of a Catholic school. The emphasis is that there are a lot of views and for the most part they are very similar and only differ on details (untill that is you get into religons like Hunduism)

The important bit, and the one I think the typical angry athiest is misinformed about is that neither do they say that that is in any way incompatible with a scientific view of the world, or that things like evolution is wrong. I learned about evolution, or at least I would have if I'd taken Bio instead of Chem and Physics. Trust me, my scientific education was in no way hampered by the fact that I went to a Catholic school. At least here in Calgary Religion and Science classes do not cross over.

[kootenayguy9]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Again nice backpeddling, but flawed logic at best.

The standardized tests in grades 3,6,9 are for all students are they not? Pretty tough for a teacher to schew those results by making kids drop out of math in grade 6 is it not?

Then there's your example. Again correct me if I'm wrong (But I'm fairly certain I'm not), but the diploma exams are administered to everyone who is graduating and to do that you have to take two sciences, math, english, social. How is a teacher supposed to weed out the kids who will make their results terrible if those kids are to graduate?

It also seems to me that CBE teachers could do the same thing, so by saying something like what you did are you implying that CSSB teachers are intentionlly ensuring kids aren't graduating, because if that's the case I'd like to see the graduation rates for the CBE and the CSSB.

Finally, I'll ask again, why the discrepency between your cliam that the CBE was doing better in standardized testing than the CSSB and the actual data. Furthermore, why use it as an exampley of why the CBE (an organization that you work for) is better if you don't belive it is valid?

Diploma Exams are only administered to students taking particular courses. You only need to take SS 33 and English 30-2 to actually graduate but many students take more diploma level courses than that.

People also need to realize that as a parent you have a choice on whether your grade 3, grade 6 and grade 9 student even writes the achivement tests.

In the last rankings of Alberta High School three of the top twenty schools were from the CBE and none were from the Catholic Board.

http://www.marketwire.com/press-rele...te-865890.html

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

No, that would defeat the purpose of a Catholic school. The emphasis is that there are a lot of views and for the most part they are very similar and only differ on details (untill that is you get into religons like Hunduism)

The important bit, and the one I think the typical angry athiest is misinformed about is that neither do they say that that is in any way incompatible with a scientific view of the world, or that things like evolution is wrong. I learned about evolution, or at least I would have if I'd taken Bio instead of Chem and Physics. Trust me, my scientific education was in no way hampered by the fact that I went to a Catholic school. At least here in Calgary Religion and Science classes do not cross over.

But if you read the curriculum, there in no mention of other religions, on the contray it appears to focus one....

PS: I am not an angry athiest....

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

From CSSD website:

Religious education has four essential characteristics. It is Trinitarian. It recognizes God as the creator. It recognizes Jesus, his son, who reveals God to us and, in turn, reveals God's Spirit. It is based on Sacred Scripture. It is also based on the life experience of students.

Religious education is presented within the tradition of the Catholic Faith Community which provides students with experiences of prayer, faith, love and justice. Teachers and students integrate gospel values in day to day activities as well as in service projects in the school and community whenever opportunities arise.

Seems pretty limited.

I attended a catholic school.
and it is true that they taught you about all the major world religions in religion class..
so it wasn't limited at all.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

But if you read the curriculum, there in no mention of other religions, on the contray it appears to focus one....

PS: I am not an angry athiest....

I don't remember learning about all religions in Catholic school, but you certainly learn about the 3 major Abrahamic religions. You can't understand Christianity without some background knowledge of Judaism, and you can't understand modern Christian politics without knowledge of Islam and protestant movements.

So yeah, you do learn about some other religions, but Christianity and Catholicism is the still the central theme. Very little is taught about Eastern religion, although I think we did watch a couple of videos. Then again, like I said, my Catholic education ended in grade 9, so maybe in highschool you learn more about other religions.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

But if you read the curriculum, there in no mention of other religions, on the contray it appears to focus one....

PS: I am not an angry athiest....

I went to Catholic Jr High and High School. In Junior high we focussed on the Catholic Church, doctrine and rituals. We were taught the why of what goes on in a Catholic ceremony.

In High School (I was at Bishop Carrol), I got to choose my topics. My focus was primarily on Western and Eastern Philosophy, Eastern religions and Islam. So yes, we were taught about other religions. This may have changed, but it it was certainly the case when I was in school.

The biggest thing that this exposure did for me was teach me the understanding that applying a binary value system to human society just doesn't work. It gave me the understanding that humans believe in different things around the world, and that at the root of most belief systems there is often a set of common morals. If anything, Religion was more of a Philosophy class (roughly 1st year Philosophy at a University), then it was an indoctrination.

Yes, there were required classes that taught church believes in marriage, contraceptives and other such things. It is following the mandate dictated by the Catholic Church after all. That said, it was always presented to me as a "This is what the Church has decided is right", rather then "This is right". Subtle, but important difference.

The public system does not offer anywhere near the same level of education. And given that the Catholic system offers this in addition to the existing Alberta curriculum, I maintain that it remains the superior school system.

A bit of Trivia: in grade 10 our English assignment to read a Novel involved a scene in which a homosexual gang rape occurs. Don't recall anyone throwing fits over it.

[guzzy]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

So wait do you believe in canada's belief's or not. Canada is a Multi-Cultural country. It is not a "melting pot". People can keep thier beliefs and traditions. Is it the new immigrants you want out or the old ones, ie: pacifist religious sects?

And by thw way, it is what you have done for the country. If you love it so much what have you done to help it?

I do support the beliefs of our forefathers. I support multi-culturalism 100%. I support refugees and giving them a chance at a better life. I don't believe in those who come here (at any time - past or present) who want to change the way we have always done things.

Sikhs shouldn't be allowed to wear turbans instead of traditional RCMP headgear. There is also someone suing the oil companies right now because of the policy of being clean shaven when working in any plant because of H2S and the safety risks it poses. That makes me sick. If some ying-yang wants the oil companies and govt to change their SAFETY policies because it is against his religion to shave, that is a disgrace to our forefathers. How about the kids who won't wear bike helmets because their turban doesn't fit in it? I have no problem with that except when the kid falls off of his bike and cracks his head open. It is my tax dollars that have to take care of his head. It is law in most cities that kids under 18 must wear bike helmets....follow the laws, don't challenge them on religious grounds.

Why are winter and spring breaks called what they are now? When I went to school it was called xmas and easter breaks, but some sore loser had to wreck that for everyone. It has been called xmas break since our great-great-great grandparents went to school. Why did it get changed? It shouldn't have been changed.

Why do keep asking what I do for my country? I vote. I pay taxes. I don't bitch about every little thing I disagree with

Have i ever served in the military? No

Would I go to war for my country? In a heart beat without blinking

I don't quite understand what it is you are asking.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't remember learning about all religions in Catholic school, but you certainly learn about the 3 major Abrahamic religions. You can't understand Christianity without some background knowledge of Judaism, and you can't understand modern Christian politics without knowledge of Islam and protestant movements.

So yeah, you do learn about some other religions, but Christianity and Catholicism is the still the central theme. Very little is taught about Eastern religion, although I think we did watch a couple of videos. Then again, like I said, my Catholic education ended in grade 9, so maybe in highschool you learn more about other religions.

As i remeber correctly religion 35 was nothing but other religions..especially eastern...can only watch that film about the ganges river so many times...

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by llama64

Yes, there were required classes that taught church believes in marriage, contraceptives and other such things. It is following the mandate dictated by the Catholic Church after all. That said, it was always presented to me as a "This is what the Church has decided is right", rather then "This is right". Subtle, but important difference.

This is the part the anti-CSSD people just can't seem to accept.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by guzzy

Have i ever served in the military? No

Would I go to war for my country? In a heart beat without blinking

I don't quite understand what it is you are asking.

I am asking why you are not currently in kandahar.........aren't we at war?

I think countries are or should be in a constant state of evolution (no pun intended).

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by llama64

Yes, there were required classes that taught church believes in marriage, contraceptives and other such things. It is following the mandate dictated by the Catholic Church after all. That said, it was always presented to me as a "This is what the Church has decided is right", rather then "This is right". Subtle, but important difference.

Is it not the same thing? If catholics are to follow the rulings of the church, and the pope is anointed by god, should you not be following their rules? If they saw it is right, is it not RIGHT by default?

[Superflyer]

Right now my oldest daughter is in the Catholic system, not on my choice but my wifes. I don't care as long as she gets a good education.
My first problem came in grade one when she came home one day and said "Daddy do you know why my eyes are brown?" I said because mine and my wifes are brown so that made hers brown, I did not want to get deep into genetics cause she was 6. She then says "nope, it is because God made them that way." I then said no it is because of the genes in your body that were created by Mom and Dad. She then said that God made everything and she is the way she is because of him. She even had handouts that said this.
Now I am not a believer in God and religion but I agreed that I would never say anything bad about God or religion to my kids cause I want them to come to their own decisions, but this made me very close to saying that this school is crap and the stuff that they are teaching my kid is crap. I was quite mad but I never let her know.
I am just waiting to see how they are going to talk their way out of this later in Bio class. After saying that God created everything and everyone, how it is genetics that affects everything.

[Superflyer]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

I am asking why you are not currently in kandahar.........aren't we at war?

I think countryies are or should be in a constant state of evolution (no pun intended).

OK first this is not a war, it is a useless fight that was started my the US. But that is a whole other thing.

Can you name any other countries that will bend over backwards to make everyone happy? Another country that will change the way they do things because someone said this is not what I want? The only one that can think of is Canada and to a much lesser extent the US.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Superflyer

Right now my oldest daughter is in the Catholic system, not on my choice but my wifes. I don't care as long as she gets a good education.
My first problem came in grade one when she came home one day and said "Daddy do you know why my eyes are brown?" I said because mine and my wifes are brown so that made hers brown, I did not want to get deep into genetics cause she was 6. She then says "nope, it is because God made them that way." I then said no it is because of the genes in your body that were created by Mom and Dad. She then said that God made everything and she is the way she is because of him. She even had handouts that said this.
Now I am not a believer in God and religion but I agreed that I would never say anything bad about God or religion to my kids cause I want them to come to their own decisions, but this made me very close to saying that this school is crap and the stuff that they are teaching my kid is crap. I was quite mad but I never let her know.
I am just waiting to see how they are going to talk their way out of this later in Bio class. After saying that God created everything and everyone, how it is genetics that affects everything.

I don't think it's a big deal to say that God made your eyes brown when you're 6. I don't recall having any problem being told differently in Bio and I'm sure I was told a lot of things were because God made them that way.

I went to Catholic School from Grade 8 - 12 (Came from Manitoba)
I am not a devout Catholic, I'm not even baptized Catholic. In grades 8-10ish we mostly learned about the Catholic religion, but grade 11 and 12 were mostly about other religions to give you perspective.

I think Locke put it best....you don't want to be ignorant of other people's cultures....even if you are an atheist...just cause you go to Catholic school doesn't mean they're training you to be devout Catholics who don't think for themselves.
And my Religion teacher was probably the smartest man I've ever met...and he wasn't my gym teacher. :P

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Superflyer

I am just waiting to see how they are going to talk their way out of this later in Bio class. After saying that God created everything and everyone, how it is genetics that affects everything.

Easy... God also created genes.

Don't forget, the father of modern genetics, Gregor Mendel, was a Roman Catholic monk... and I'm sure he was told the same crap when he was 6.

Six year olds get told a lot of crap... Some parents tell them the stork brought them, or that mommy and daddy "wished really hard" for a child... whatever.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Superflyer

Can you name any other countries that will bend over backwards to make everyone happy?

Try Denmark and Holland. They have been notorious in their tolerance of differences. Stupid Dutch...