Schooling Mentally Challenged Children

[Chump]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Lots of people have to change 'normal' habits for the greater good of society.

Smokers can't smoke in public buildings anymore, even though smoking was at one time considered totally normal. You wanna get on your soap box and cry out for the rights of the poor abused smoker who needs to stand in the rain to get hit nic fix? Second hand smoke doesn't kill you instantly without medical intervention like a peanut butter sandwich to the face of an allergic child.

Get used to the world changing, it happens every day. If you don't want to be on the boat then I suggest you get off, cuz nothing you will do will make it always stay the same.

And smoke is not a cheap nutritious food that kids love. These issues are not nearly as close as you try to make them out to be. I don't see how this really falls under the category of "greater good" when it only helps a tiny portion of the population who have death causing peanut allergies.

As for the original topic if the retarted kid is actually being a distraction to the entire class then he should get special care.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by metal_geek

As for the co workers kid... I'm willing to bet that at this age she'll learn more from dealing with this situation then she ever will from her grade 4 math book. Her mother needs to get a grip.

The mother has a valid point. The rest of class does suffer when said teacher is spending an inordinate amount of time with the child that has a learning disability.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Smokers can't smoke in public buildings anymore, even though smoking was at one time considered totally normal. You wanna get on your soap box and cry out for the rights of the poor abused smoker who needs to stand in the rain to get hit nic fix?
Get used to the world changing, it happens every day. If you don't want to be on the boat then I suggest you get off, cuz nothing you will do will make it always stay the same.

that changed because smokers are in the minority, if smokers made up a majority then things would still be like that.

Originally Posted by metal_geek

As for the co workers kid... I'm willing to bet that at this age she'll learn more from dealing with this situation then she ever will from her grade 4 math book. Her mother needs to get a grip.

I'm sure it will be of giant comfort for the parent to know her daughter will get along with her future co-workers at the local McD's once she is rejected from all universities for abysmal math grades.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by flip

My issue here isn't with the fact that these kids have conditions/allergies, it is that literally hundreds and sometimes thousands of other people have to change perfectly normal habits and be inconvenienced to make one kid comfortable.

It'd be like banning peanuts at the dome because someone might have an allergy. If you have an unfortunate allergy you're just going to have to deal with it. If society has to make an occasional change to suit them then fine, but to change culture based on one person seems rediculous.

Wow ... I think the word you were looking for was "alive". I don't think "comfortable" really represents the gravity of the situation. I respect that you have a different opinion, but that line of thinking can lead to tragic consequences if you don't take something like that seriously.

Couple points to make on the disabled kid:

1. I don't know the class at all so I shouldn't make assumptions, but I imagine there are kids that are just as disruptive if not more in the class that don't get complained about because they are "normal". Like I said, I shouldn't make assumptions, but having worked with the disabled in the past I can tell you time and time again people will complain about somebody who is different from them all the while tolerating worse behaviour from somebody who is more like them.

2. This sounds like the unfortunate reality of the school system where there are too many kids and not enough teachers to handle issues like this. Sure it's easy to demand the kid gets more specialized care, but the fact probably is that there is no other class. Who's going to pay for it?

[chid]

Originally Posted by bigtmac19

I'm surprised a child at this level does not have a full time aide. Both times that my kids had this issue in their class and/or grade, the child did have a full time aide.

I can't believe the parent of the child in question (special needs) isn't advocating and insisting that their child have a full time aide while at school.

The grade school my kids went to however, was designated in the board as a special ed school, so maybe it was more progressive in these situations.

The kids still had some issues with these students, but not to this extent.

Yeah, I'm not understanding why this kid you're talking about doesn't have a teachers aide. I currently do this job at a private school, and while there are still disruptions, its more at par with any normal disruption by any other student. There are lots of exercises that really help him not to disrupt the class unnecessarily.

I think all 'special needs' kids require just that, someone giving them more attention to their different needs, just as a regular kid needs attention in areas like math or science, my kid needs it in social behaviour and he gets it, like a tutor helps another kid with science. We work on it and practice proper boundaries and acceptable methods for dealing with anxiousness, frustration, anger, and excitements.

He doesnt need to be segregated to learn, but should get the extra attention as he deserves to help him grow and develop.

[metal_geek]

Originally Posted by Swarly

that changed because smokers are in the minority, if smokers made up a majority then things would still be like that.



I'm sure it will be of giant comfort for the parent to know her daughter will get along with her future co-workers at the local McD's once she is rejected from all universities for abysmal math grades.

If her kid is that smart i'm sure she'll over come having to deal with people who distract attention from her... If her kid can't get past that I'm sure the universities aren't gonna be stumbling over themselves to recrute her. mcdonalds might not be a good fit for her cause one of her coworkers might have a disability....

If her kids needs extra help, heaven forbid mom has to help her with division...

Regarding nuts If smoking killed people... maybe some more people would complain... oh wait....

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Swarly

I'm sure it will be of giant comfort for the parent to know her daughter will get along with her future co-workers at the local McD's once she is rejected from all universities for abysmal math grades.

Holy hyperbole!!! Can you possibly take that any further?

When your daughter comes home with her grade 4 report card and shes not doing well in math are you going to scream at her about how its okay to treat others poorly and be willfully unemphatic of those weaker than her so she doesn't end up working at McDonalds?

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by metal_geek

If her kid is that smart i'm sure she'll over come having to deal with people who distract attention from her... If her kid can't get past that I'm sure the universities aren't gonna be stumbling over themselves to recrute her. mcdonalds might not be a good fit for her cause one of her coworkers might have a disability....

If her kids needs extra help, heaven forbid mom has to help her with division...

Regarding nuts If smoking killed people... maybe some more people would complain... oh wait....

so if she needs extra help with her math then screw her, its up to her mom, but if a person with disabilities needs extra help then the teacher should bend over backwards to accommodate them. Forget the other 35 kids in the class.

I'm all for equal treatment but this isnt equal, if a child needs extra help at the expense of the other 35 then they should be getting an aide.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Swarly

I'm all for equal treatment but this isnt equal, if a child needs extra help at the expense of the other 35 then they should be getting an aide.

I say the smartest kid in the class should be the aide. Friendship and respect go a longer way than segregation and labeling.

[metal_geek]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

I say the smartest kid in the class should be the aide. Friendship and respect go a longer way than segregation and labeling.

..... I don't think that could have been any better said!!!

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

I say the smartest kid in the class should be the aide. Friendship and respect go a longer way than segregation and labeling.

i'm sure 4th grade kids are perfectly equipped to be aides to special needs kids. If it is a minor disability then that would work great but if it is any more serious they need a real aide. Also no matter how you put it if this child is needing aid, even from another student, they are being labeled.

[metal_geek]

Originally Posted by Swarly

i'm sure 4th grade kids are perfectly equipped to be aides to special needs kids. If it is a minor disability then that would work great but if it is any more serious they need a real aide. Also no matter how you put it if this child is needing aid, even from another student, they are being labeled.

It's grade 4, time for kids to be learning all sorts of things, including how to include and support people.

I'm not saying the student doesn't need an aid, in most cases the aid afforded by the students coding ends up helping the teacher with everyone anyway. Point is if little suzie is not keeping up with her mothers expectation of grade 4 success, then either A) her mother steps up or B) stop wasting time blaming the disabled kid and spend it looking for the real answer..

[Bagor]

I also don't understand why the child hasn't got an aide. To be honest we've no idea from the thread starter how and how much the child is incapacitated or if they even are.

Alberta education suggest there is funding available. (P93)

http://education.alberta.ca/media/84..._2008-2009.pdf


What is the relationship between the diagnosis and the severity of the disability? Diagnoses are important in determining whether students have special education needs, but the degree of need is determined by the impact of the conditions on school performance and the extent to which accommodations and supports are required for students to learn and be successful in the classroom. The relationship between a clinical diagnosis and the required level of special education programming and supports is not direct. The level of special education need is determined by an assessment of:
• the number of areas of functioning affected
• the extent to which functioning is affected in each area
• the effect on others
• the amount of support required.


ALLOCATION CRITERIA (p72)


http://education.alberta.ca/media/82...%20of%20fm.pdf

1. Students/Children with special health needs includes those with physical disabilities, development disabilities, neurological disorders, sensory impairments, medical conditions, and/or emotional/behavioural disabilities who are registered in

school programs from Early Childhood Services (ECS) through Grade 12. Services eligible for funding include speechlanguage therapy, physical therapy, occupational therapy, audiology, respiratory therapy, clinical nursing, and emotional/behavioural supports.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Swarly

i'm sure 4th grade kids are perfectly equipped to be aides to special needs kids. If it is a minor disability then that would work great but if it is any more serious they need a real aide. Also no matter how you put it if this child is needing aid, even from another student, they are being labeled.

Sounds more like a lesson in what labelling is, what it means, and why it shouldn't be participated in.

Actually, the more I think about it, its like a golden opporotunity to really impart on the students patience, understanding, respect, friendship.

I'm not talking about class talks or grand overtures, just simply letting the natural course of the classroom play out once the special-needs student has the help they need from the kid who's going to excel no matter what anyway. Not to mention that outside the classroom kids at that age tend to see themselves and each other in a more equal light.

The social fall-out of the achieving student helping the struggling one but then chillin' outside the classroom too will do wonders for the confidence and self-esteem of the struggling kid. Remember, it can't be easy to be the one who is always behind in everything.

I mean, s*** man, its not like it isn't worth a try.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Swarly

i'm sure 4th grade kids are perfectly equipped to be aides to special needs kids. If it is a minor disability then that would work great but if it is any more serious they need a real aide. Also no matter how you put it if this child is needing aid, even from another student, they are being labeled.

I've a friend with a kid who has minor Tourettes (shoulder shrugs). Bright kid, just has minor tics. When they spoke with the teacher and principle to make them aware, present the diagnosis and discuss the situation the principal asked if they wouldn't mind consenting for an application for a teachers aid on the grounds of the condition. It was agreed that there was no need for a special aid for the kid and the aid wasn't to be specific to their child for fear of a stigma/labelling. It was just a case of the school saying the money was out there and why not get it for the good of the class as a whole. This is in Oz.

The money has to be out there to get the resources to help the teacher.

Originally Posted by Swarly

if it is any more serious they need a real aide. Also no matter how you put it if this child is needing aid, even from another student, they are being labeled.

Agreed. There's also the legal implications. You can't have a 4th grader acting as an aide no matter how bright/mature they are.

[metal_geek]

Originally Posted by Bagor

I've a friend with a kid who has minor Tourettes (shoulder shrugs). Bright kid, just has minor tics. When they spoke with the teacher and principle to make them aware, present the diagnosis and discuss the situation the principal asked if they wouldn't mind consenting for an application for a teachers aid on the grounds of the condition. It was agreed that there was no need for a special aid for the kid and the aid wasn't to be specific to their child for fear of a stigma/labelling. It was just a case of the school saying the money was out there and why not get it for the good of the class as a whole. This is in Oz.

The money has to be out there to get the resources to help the teacher.



Agreed. There's also the legal implications. You can't have a 4th grader acting as an aide no matter how bright/mature they are.

The student is not acting as an aid by packing his back pack or feeding the student lunch... The kids pull thier desk together and talk math..

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by metal_geek

The student is not acting as an aid by packing his back pack or feeding the student lunch... The kids pull thier desk together and talk math..

Back at you...could not have put it better.

[Kerplunk]

While I can see how allowing a special needs student would help them integrate better with other students (the so-called "acceptance"), I think that the student would be better served having an aide with them (or a separate class) instead of relying on the teacher to constantly be helping. When I went through school the teachers seemed to have enough trouble keeping us in check while getting through all of the material they needed to go through. With the increase in class sizes, that the extra attention for one student could disrupt the learning of others.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by metal_geek

The student is not acting as an aid by packing his back pack or feeding the student lunch... The kids pull thier desk together and talk math..

So if the kid is e.g. behind the rest of the class in learning are the other students supposed to regress to accomodate him/her? How are they supposed to progress if a chunk of their time is spent talking math that they covered a year ago? At what stage would this stop? When the individual is 2, 3 years behind? What if the kid doesn't want to talk math when everyone else does? Who's responsible then for diversional therapy?

Special needs kids are called special needs for a reason. Their needs are different. Other children I agree should include them in their structure but when it hampers their academic development then IMO it's a tad unfair.

I've no problem with and agree with the social aspect. The academic part should be covered by the teacher with the assistance of an aide so that all 3 parties benefit.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by flip

So I have a coworker who has a daughter aged 10 or so. So she's in about grade 4. She goes to a Catholic elementary school.

Here's the issue:

There is a retarted kid in her class (sorry but I'm not PC enough to use mentally challenged all the time) and he is quite disruptive and requires a lot of time from the teacher which should be spent on the other kids. My coworker's daughter has been complaining to her mom that it is very difficult to be in this class because the retarted kid is a constant disruption who requires attn.

If you want a serious decision and credibility, you need to quit being self-centered and catch up with the times where the proper term for these individuals is mentally challanged. I know many people that have assocation with mentally challenged people and the term is very offensive. It's on par with using certain words for race, gender, religion etc. If it's offensive to them, then it's not something that I'll use personally. It's a respect thing where no one should be treated differently because they're different.

Back on topic, growing up I had a few classes with mentally challenged students but each had their own teaching aide. Some subjects they'd participate while others they'd breakout into their own group of two (student and aide). I never had an issue on my end.