hypnotists

[troutman]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

These aren't the droids your looking for

Junkie: Do you wanna buy some death sticks?
Obi-Wan Kenobi: You don't want to sell me death sticks.
Junkie: I don't want to sell you death sticks.
Obi-wan Kenobi: You want to go home and rethink your life.
Junkie: I want to go home and rethink my life.

[Dartem]

Originally Posted by flip

Man do I ever hope your son or daughter gets addicted to coke or heroin. Then when they have a relapse you can call them a weak piece of crap.

If that scenario ever were to happen, then yes they would be weak people for having a chemical dependancy.



Maybe I should send them to a hypnotist that will magically fix everything though.

[Just Someone]

Originally Posted by Dartem

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/tobacc...obacco_use.pdf

From page 68

"Hypnosis. The original guideline did not conduct a separate meta-analysis on hypnosis because few studies met inclusion criteria, and those that did used very heterogeneous hypnotic procedures. There was no common or standard intervention technique to analyze. Literature screening for the updated guideline revealed no new published studies on the treatment of tobacco dependence by hypnosis that met the inclusion criteria; therefore, this topic did not warrant re-examination. Moreover, an independent review of hypnotherapy trials by the Cochrane Group found insufficient evidence to support hypnosis as a treatment for smoking cessation"

Oookey...
A person who knows what to do can make one's subconsciously believe that when ever he/she is touched, someone is actually holding a red hot iron against the place one is touched, causing terrible pain and if hypnosis is strong enough visible burn-marks.
A person's brain can be made unable to register existance objects that are of certain color; no matter how long you stare it, you won't see it.
Migrens can be treated effectively with hypnosis also, even when pills won't help.
And they say cancer sticks are too much to handle?

If you are a sceptic, then fine. But don't try to prove me wrong with some link, when I know better than you.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Just Someone

Oookey...
A person who knows what to do can make one's subconsciously believe that when ever he/she is touched, someone is actually holding a red hot iron against the place one is touched, causing terrible pain and if hypnosis is strong enough visible burn-marks.
A person's brain can be made unable to register existance objects that are of certain color; no matter how long you stare it, you won't see it.
Migrens can be treated effectively with hypnosis also, even when pills won't help.
And they say cancer sticks are too much to handle?

If you are a sceptic, then fine. But don't try to prove me wrong with some link, when I know better than you.

Really,
I'd like to see some iota of proof of any of that.
You've been shown a scientific appraisal of hypnosis and you reply with

"Yeah, well hypnosis can do all of this stuff so there"

I find your reasoning dubious at best, especailly when your first example is something so completely unethical and immoral that I doubt anyone would actually admit to doing it.

No doubt the mind is a powerfull thing, but so are placebos.

[Dartem]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Really,
I'd like to see some iota of proof of any of that.
You've been shown a scientific appraisal of hypnosis and you reply with

"Yeah, well hypnosis can do all of this stuff so there"

I find your reasoning dubious at best, especailly when your first example is something so completely unethical and immoral that I doubt anyone would actually admit to doing it.

No doubt the mind is a powerfull thing, but so are placebos.

Finally somebody else with that rare quality of common sense arrives.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Dartem

If that scenario ever were to happen, then yes they would be weak people for having a chemical dependancy.

Well at least you're honest. Not very sympathetic but honest.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

These aren't the droids your looking for

The hell they're not, now hand them over.

[Just Someone]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Really,
I'd like to see some iota of proof of any of that.
You've been shown a scientific appraisal of hypnosis and you reply with

"Yeah, well hypnosis can do all of this stuff so there"

I find your reasoning dubious at best, especailly when your first example is something so completely unethical and immoral that I doubt anyone would actually admit to doing it.

No doubt the mind is a powerful thing, but so are placebos.

Sorry, the post was written in haste. I didn't have time at that very moment to write any more detailed.

I unfortunately don't have any English link that would explain, what happens in human brain - neither physical nor mental level - during hypnosis and the books I could refer are other side of the country.(my mother's books, she is a hypnotist. She actually needed only the light hypnosis in her work - treating performance-related nervousness/fear/distress (######, don't know the word) with a method that included meditation/relaxing tapes - but her teacher had the opinion, that either she would study and learn it completely, or not at all. Half-learned hypnotist is a risk, even when just making people fall "in the name of God and Heavenly Might" at some religious festival.) Also there isn't much proof in the Internet to show that hypnosis works. Big reason is that science considers hypnosis as same heretic mumbo-jumbo as healing crystals and $h!t like that. Studies that aren't concentrating on making it even more evadable that hypnosis is fraud are often considered unreliable, 'cause they are done by people who believe in hypnosis. I think there isn't very many studies of hypnosis in the world, where scientists wouldn't have taken their side before study even begun. That is why I only can only give the process how it works which is quite easy to understand.
Basically, you can think conscious mind as password and subconscious mind as source code. When you enter the password (occupied the conscious mind with other things) you get your hand on the source code. The source, unlike password, doesn't analyze, it just takes the information and orders, that are coming in. Just about everything goes through subconscious mind. When understanding the code language, you can change the code. You change orders of the program (body) and get different response, than before. Like when pressing "a" you would get "r" on your computer. Orders can be looped, passed by different linking or made to end the line, so that it won't cause any reaction. If we accept the existence of subconsciousness, that takes in the information consciousness doesn't have time to notice, and knowledge the fact that conscious mind can proses very limited information at time, the hypnosis can't be proved false. As for what hypnosis can do... it depends on how good the coder - the hypnotist - is. Of course, there is no way of growing extra limbs, or making a person fly. As long as it's causing nerve impulses to create wrong response it is more of a question of how sick the hypnotist is, than what is possible. Of course, like in everything and anything in this world, it varies somewhat, because every person and every mind is unique.


As for the example I gave in the earlier message: The Stanford prison experiment - and many, many other scientific experiments in psychology - was as unethical, and yet it's been done and well documented. Psychology has always been somewhat twisted science. The reason said example - which has actually been done years ago, during the time, when one could do anything in the name of science - is still passed on for studying hypnotists is to make them realize, what they are studying is not something to be taken too lightly or to be sloppy with.

This explanation is just unscientific scratch of surface and I doubt it will convince anyone that I just might have the slightest clue of what I am talking about. I can borrow mothers books, when I next time visit my parents. Then I can try to translate and give more scientific explanation. This is the best I can do without books at 3:35 AM .

[Azure]

I've seen it work before....so I know that its the real thing, but I personally wouldn't go down that route.

Its effective for more than just weight problems, smoking, etc, etc.

[Dartem]

Originally Posted by Just Someone

Sorry, the post was written in haste. I didn't have time at that very moment to write any more detailed.

I unfortunately don't have any English link that would explain, what happens in human brain - neither physical nor mental level - during hypnosis and the books I could refer are other side of the country.

Convenient.

(my mother's books, she is a hypnotist. She actually needed only the light hypnosis in her work - treating performance-related nervousness/fear/distress (######, don't know the word) with a method that included meditation/relaxing tapes - but her teacher had the opinion, that either she would study and learn it completely, or not at all. Half-learned hypnotist is a risk, even when just making people fall "in the name of God and Heavenly Might" at some religious festival.)

There it is.

Also there isn't much proof in the Internet to show that hypnosis works. Big reason is that science considers hypnosis as same heretic mumbo-jumbo as healing crystals and $h!t like that. Studies that aren't concentrating on making it even more evadable that hypnosis is fraud are often considered unreliable, 'cause they are done by people who believe in hypnosis. I think there isn't very many studies of hypnosis in the world, where scientists wouldn't have taken their side before study even begun. That is why I only can only give the process how it works which is quite easy to understand.

Now lets talk some science. The first part I bolded specifically. There isnt much proof in the internet hypnosis works. It is not just the internet, There is no proof in science either. Why? Well first, you have to to follow the scientific method and your results must be able to be replicated. I already provided a link to a scientific study that says hypnosis is as good as useless to get people to stop smoking (among other things but we are focusing on smoking right now)

Second bolded part. That is not a scientific study. Sounds like religious fanataicism. You have the conclusion you want to draw, you are trying to find the facts that support it. Science has made it sound like the same "heretic mumbo jumbo" because it has failed to prove itself through scientific method and testing.

This explanation is just unscientific scratch of surface

There it is.

and I doubt it will convince anyone that I just might have the slightest clue of what I am talking about.

It doesn't convince anyone (I hope) and it certainly doesn't sound like you do.

You have to be able to come up with something other than "it works cause my mom does it to people!"

[Just Someone]

Well, sorry, that I could only provide links on my own language. Hint: it ISN'T English, otherwise my spelling would be a lot worse. And you didn't apparently read anything of what I wrote after mentioning that my mother is also a hypnotist. She doesn't use it to people (except if there is a really, really good reason for it) except, whit relaxing/meditation tapes. Yes, that is an example of light hypnosis.

Originally Posted by Dartem

Second bolded part. That is not a scientific study. Sounds like religious fanataicism. You have the conclusion you want to draw, you are trying to find the facts that support it. Science has made it sound like the same "heretic mumbo jumbo" because it has failed to prove itself through scientific method and testing.

What is ironic is that I'm an atheist and a skeptic, and no one else in the world has called me any kind of fanatic, no matter what subject is discussed. Problem is that when it comes to a subject like this, there are very the people, who have a neutral opinion seem to be rarity. Even bigger rarity they are among scientists. Science always requires either proved facts or belief that something can be proved as a fact. If you believe, you have some screws loose, you are living in fantasy-world with elves and you are thinking and acting like a religious fanatic. If you don't believe, you are blindfolded idiot, who is too afraid to think that it is possible that there is something, you can't prove with science and you are thinking and acting like a science fanatic. Study result are always affected by the expected result, that was first thing I was told at university class.

Originally Posted by Dartem

It doesn't convince anyone (I hope) and it certainly doesn't sound like you do.

You have to be able to come up with something other than "it works cause my mom does it to people!"

"unscientific scratch of surface"="a simplified explanation in language that average Internet user understands". Meaning: this is the basic way it works, but I don't have a psychology-English dictionary, so I won't start translating terms from Finnish to English in the middle of the night, when I'm waiting the game for start, especially when I know most of the people have to check the term meanings from dictionary and at least half will get the basic term allergy and shut their brain after third word they have to check. It might look very cool and scientific, but doesn't help a bit.

Let's simplify it even more for you. If in any case you have read psychology in school, you might remember a term: suggestion. Hypnosis is strong version of suggestion. (That is actually a short definition of hypnosis, from high school psychology lesson. From a school book.)


If you don't believe, it's more than fine for me. In fact, I don't give a rat's @$$ what some I-know-everything considers true. What is starting to irk me though, is your way of proving your self "right". I mean, of course you are right. You've provide one link to study that has nine lines of subject "use of hypnosis in treating treating tobacco use", with basically no information, other than that some other guys on other study have decided it doesn't work. That is just flawless proof.

Maybe it is best if we just drop this one. If by now no one has been able to flawlessly prove something true or false, neither of us will be able to provide proof good enough to make other believe it to be the one and only truth. I have my sources of information, which in my knowledge are correct, you have yours. If this goes on, it is going to turn into something ugly. As a physics student I understand your belief in scientific facts, and if this was about voodoo dolls or wonder-crystals I would agree with you. As it isn't, I'll agree to disagree.

[BuzzardsWife]

Smoking is just one of many reasons to get hypnotized. I'd like to get over my obsession with Kid Rock, wonder if hypnosis would work. By the way, Buzzard doesn't smoke.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by BuzzardsWife

Smoking is just one of many reasons to get hypnotized. I'd like to get over my obsession with Kid Rock, wonder if hypnosis would work. By the way, Buzzard doesn't smoke.

My obsession with Kid Rock involves wanting to kill him.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by BuzzardsWife

Smoking is just one of many reasons to get hypnotized. I'd like to get over my obsession with Kid Rock, wonder if hypnosis would work. By the way, Buzzard doesn't smoke.

Why would you ever want to get over Kid Rock? Bawitaba baby!!

Buzzard doesnt smoke....that you know of...... JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!