Pre-Emptive Striking

[Captain Sensible]

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/world/sto...,268030,00.html

Iran threatening pre-emptive strikes on American military in the region.

[Displaced Flames fan]

I didn't read anything that indicates they would strike pre-emptively.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

And IMO they would be well within their rights to do so. American forces are the greatest threat to their sovernty in the region and a definite threat to assets within their borders. If they feel that an attack is imminent, then they have every right to defend themselves. I suspect that we'll see a flurry of mindless links from Cow on this, defending the United States' right to protect the "American way of life", no matter how many international laws it breaks, no matter how much distain it draws from the international community and no matter how many little guys get squashed in the process, and just how the wrong the Iranians would be to make such a move.

Interestingly, this would be a very smart tactical move by the Iranians and gain a quick upper hand over the US in a potential engagement. The Americans are already in over their head in Iraq and are spread thin. Bush has put in for the recall of a large majority of the US contingent in the European and Asian theatres, which again weakens the potential response force. There is no better time for anyone to hit the US hard. They have no one at home protecting the kitchen, and don't have enough soldiers in the field to answer the commitment they already have made. Adding another "front" to America's War would put a lot of pressure on the armed forces and even more pressure on Bush and the mental midgets in his cabinet. Someone's nuts could be in a ringer in very short order and I think it's Mr. Smith's double in the oval orifice.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Yeah Lanny. Good time for the Iranians to attack the US...after all, we don't have an air force and navy that would dessimate their entire nation in a matter of hours.

Ground troops are one thing and they may be spread thin and in over their head in Iraq, but you have no idea the hell that would be unleashed upon Iran from the air if they pre-emptively strike the US.

The Iranian official was correct about one thing...the US is the only thing keeping Israel from setting their nuclear program back 15 years.

Now I'll turn it over to Cowperson for his 'mindless' links.

Sometimes you are just a big dick Lanny.

[Displaced Flames fan]

For the record, I think this is a less insane version of what North Korea has been doing for the last couple of years.

The thing is, given the conflict in Iraq at this point, even if Bush wanted to take out Iran he wouldn't be stupid enough to try it now. And I KNOW that Iran isn't stupid enough to start something.

But this might be an effective way to keep their nuclear reactor which is set to go online soon from being obliterated by Ariel Sharon.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Yeah Dis, and sometimes your just another stupid arrogant American. Look at the potenital consequences dumbass. Iran doesn't have to knock the bully down, they just have to bloody his nose to get the job done. As soon as the pre-emptive strike is made, the Americans will HAVE to respond. That will inflame the region even more, making all Arab countries to choose sides and having the gloves come off for certain. All its going to take is to have the Arabs unite and the Americans won't find enough body bags. They may have a tactical advantage right now, but if the Arabs unite the Americans are sitting ducks. If the Saudi's and Kuaitis go with the Arabs, its over for the Americans. Where are they going to stage their aircraft and forces? Where are they going to resupply their war ships? Oh, you mean the armed forces need to worry about supply lines? You mean they NEED land bases for these planes and ships??? Wake the hell up. Its great strategic thinking. And don't forget that Syria and Eqypt. The Americans could find themselves with their hands full in short order if the dominos fall the wrong way.

[RougeUnderoos]

Boooo Boooo I gotta agree with DFF on this one.

Any pre-emptive strike by Iran better be a real doozy because if they don't knock out everything the Yank's got in one fell swoop, they are really effed in every sense of the word. And since they don't have a snowball's chance of doing that...

This is posturing and nothing more. But I do wonder if some of our OT friends believe they do have the "right" to do it? What's good for the goose is good for the gander?

[Displaced Flames fan]

I get it now...you've joined the I hate Americans crowd.

Good for you.

Enjoy it. It's the hip crowd these days. You ain't cool if you don't hate all Yanks!

So, let's see...the Iranians are willing to sacrifice their nation to unite the Arab people...many of whom they hate more than the US?

I don't think so.

[calculoso]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald@Aug 19 2004, 10:19 PM
Iran doesn't have to knock the bully down, they just have to bloody his nose to get the job done. As soon as the pre-emptive strike is made, the Americans will HAVE to respond. That will inflame the region even more, making all Arab countries to choose sides and having the gloves come off for certain. All its going to take is to have the Arabs unite and the Americans won't find enough body bags.

Funny. You seem to forget that the US could flatten that entire area in VERY short order if they so chose.. and attacking them would definitely push them in that direction.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Aug 20 2004, 04:22 AM
Boooo Boooo I gotta agree with DFF on this one.

Any pre-emptive strike by Iran better be a real doozy because if they don't knock out everything the Yank's got in one fell swoop, they are really effed in every sense of the word. And since they don't have a snowball's chance of doing that...

This is posturing and nothing more. But I do wonder if some of our OT friends believe they do have the "right" to do it? What's good for the goose is good for the gander?

What are we talking about here....

The thread title says pre-emptive...but I didn't get that from any of the quotes in the article at all. However, Lanny's dreamworld is based on preemption.

What the Iranians have said in the article is well within their rights. The Israeli's have no right to go blow up the reactor. That is what the Iranians are protecting with these announcements.

I don't believe anyone in the US government wants to go starting anymore conflicts right now....so this is all of no consequence anyway.

Just puts the US on notice to keep Sharon on a short leash. Smart move by them IMO.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by calculoso+Aug 19 2004, 10:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (calculoso @ Aug 19 2004, 10:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Lanny_MacDonald@Aug 19 2004, 10:19 PM
Iran doesn't have to knock the bully down, they just have to bloody his nose to get the job done. As soon as the pre-emptive strike is made, the Americans will HAVE to respond. That will inflame the region even more, making all Arab countries to choose sides and having the gloves come off for certain. All its going to take is to have the Arabs unite and the Americans won't find enough body bags.

Funny. You seem to forget that the US could flatten that entire area in VERY short order if they so chose.. and attacking them would definitely push them in that direction. [/b][/quote]
That's the thing... Iran pulls some trick like that and the Americans respond and everyone goes apesh*t then it's all over but the dying, and that ain't far behind. The American's probably wouldn't even push the "button" first, but their ally certainly would, and you can't blame them for that.

[RougeUnderoos]

'Some military commanders in Iran are convinced that preventive operations which the Americans talk about are not their monopoly

The puncutation is kinda weird in that article but I think that's a direct quote from the Defense Minister. He's not coming out and saying "we'll hit first" but he's definitely hinting at it, don't you think?

[Lanny_MacDonald]

I see this whole thing much clearer now than I did four years ago and you guys don't get it!!! Stop thinking the way of Westerners. Try thinking like someone from the Middle East who was raised in the way of Islam. Iraq has shown us something that many in the West are refusing to understand. The whole war is not about boundries anymore. Its about ideology.

It IS becoming about the Western World versus the Arab (Islam) World. To Muslims there are no borders, as they are brothers (and sisters) in their faith. Borders are enforced upon them by the Western World, which is a bone of contention for many of the religious leaders in the Islamic world. A state that is as religious as Iran may be willing to "take one for the team" if they feel that it will unite the Arab World against the infidel hordes. If the Islamic World rises up, it could take this engagement to the level that the world has been dreading. We're not talking about people with Western sensibilities (a point that is completely lost on all of you by the sounds of it) but people that would happily sacrafice their lives for their religion and way of life.

Westerners are at a massive disadvantage because we have different values and have other motivations that keep us going. Muslims are guided by their religion and live for their religion. While it is extremely hard for us to comprehend this is the life force that makes these people tick. If they could give their lives to kill an American they have done a good thing. If giving their life leads to the unification of the Arab World and leads to the deaths of many Westerners (nee ifidels) then their death was worth while. The House of War has been established and it is only going to take another stupid move to end creedence to the doctrine that many clerics are already preaching. One "dumb" move by Iran may just entice that stupid move the Islamists want.

BTW... from the Western view, why is it okay for Isreal or the United States to make pre-emptive strikes to protect themselves (when a threat is several thousand miles away) but it is wrong for Iran to make a strike when the threat is a few hundred miles away? Double standard?

[RougeUnderoos]

Going a little overboard aren't you Lanny?

By your "definition", every Muslim would be willing to die to kill an American. If that was the case, there certainly wouldn't be any Jews and there likely wouldn't be any Americans either. How many Muslims are there? A billion and a half? If they were all half as bloodthirsty as you make out then we would be in a very different world right now. We might not even be in this world at all if that was the case.

On a smaller scale -- the few Muslims I know are not willing to die to kill an American. "If they could give their lives to kill an American they have done a good thing." ? Bullsh*t.

The 9/11 hijackers weren't real Muslims, incidentally.

[FlamesAddiction]

To pay for the kind of large scale attack that it would take to bring down Iran, the U.S. economy would likely take a huge hit. Let's remember that Iran has twice as many people as Iraq, and has not been crippled by sanctions. It would be 10 times the operation that the Iraq war is.

[FlamesAllTheWay]

If Iran were to pre-emptively strike any US military personnel, I think we'd have ourselves another World War, or something pretty close. The USA would have to respond and they would be stretched very thin in order to do so. Perfect time for some wacko (Kim Jong Il? China maybe?) to try something.

I agree with you, Lanny, on one point at least. Many Westerners need to try to see things from a Mid-East perspective in order to get a better grasp on things like terrorism...

[photon]

I can understand (not necessarily agree, but understand) Israel's motivation to launch a pre-emptive strike against nations and people who have repeatedly said and shown by actions that their goal is nothing short of the elimination of the state of Israel... EDIT: I have a natural leaning towards Israel though...

I agree though it's easy to take the side that's closest to you and put less consideration to about things from the other side.

Unfortunately I've read so much information from both sides that contradicts the other that I won't hold an opinion anymore; I'm convinced that I have no way of knowing the truth and how can I make a decision if I don't have reliable information?

And yeah, a US vs. Iran war would probably be the start of WWIII.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally posted by FlamesAllTheWay@Aug 20 2004, 05:28 AM


I agree with you, Lanny, on one point at least. Many Westerners need to try to see things from a Mid-East perspective in order to get a better grasp on things like terrorism...

I think most people who discuss matters like this in a serious manner do try to see things from that perspective. Just because they don't come to the same conclusions as you and Lanny doesn't mean that they are ignoring the other point of view.

However, you're kidding yourself if you think anyone who hasn't lived in or grown up in that situation is capable of understanding the mindset of someone who has. Only people who have grown up where terrorism has festered only to come to the West can understand both sides of the issue and each from both points of view.

For me personally, the priority is the protection of my children and their future. I'd be willing to bet that aside from the insanity that prevails in the extremist movement, most people in 3rd world Islamic nations have the same priority.

Terrorism doesn't go toward that goal for either side.

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald@Aug 20 2004, 03:50 AM
I suspect that we'll see a flurry of mindless links from Cow on this,

That was a bit of a pre-emptive strike wasn't it?

Cowperson

[Captain Sensible]

Originally posted by Displaced Flames fan@Aug 20 2004, 03:45 AM
I didn't read anything that indicates they would strike pre-emptively.

Iranian Defence Minister Ali Shamkhani has warned that Iran might launch a pre-emptive strike against United States forces in the region to prevent an attack on its nuclear facilities.