Age of Credulity?

[Bobblehead]

http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2008...f_the_age.html

A Roger Ebert discussion, brought on with the response to something he posted last week.

But the purpose of this blog entry is not to discuss politics (a subject banned from the blog). Nor is it to discuss Creationism versus the theory of evolution (that way lurks an endless loop). It is to discuss the gradual decay of our sense of irony and instinct for satire, and our growing credulity.

I thought this goes along with the tangent the Clay Aiken thread has taken, discussing the "green to identify sarcasm" CP meme.

What are people's thought?
Is the populace losing the ability the ability to recognize sarcasm?

[CaptainCrunch]

NOOO WAY!!

[burn_this_city]

Some people seem to take things literally when sarcasm is intended. The internet is tough to tell sometimes so green is a good way to indicate sarcasm.

[missdpuck]

Norm! It's working. I can tell by the pic you're losing weight. There's some credulity for ya.

[Prototype]

As I stated in the Clay thread, text, be it email, forum, website, what-have-you, does not give the audience the benifit of inflection, to which sarcastic tone is the main difference in common vocal communication. Green, or oragne, or whatever colour font, is to imply that sarcastic tone.

Someone pointed out that they thought it was more to say, "hey, look over here, I'm being sarcastic". This is not the case, at least not when I use it, but I can understand why it would be in a visual only medium.

I would hate defend a stance I don't actually have, because someone thought that something I said was taken litterally, and I didn't use some colour to show sarcasm.

Would italics work better? (notice no colour nor italics)

Sometimes in a visual only medium, it is next to impossible to tell sarcasm, period.

[driveway]

Personally, I don't like the green=sarcasm meme. I'm of the opinion that good sarcasm should be subtle enough that some people do take you seriously - whether your sarcasm be spoken or written.

It's the same reason I'm extremely reluctant to use smilies in posts, or other internet qualifiers such as the teeth-clenchingly ubiquitous "lol". If some kind of signifier is needed to identify the tone of your statement, you're probably not trying hard enough to express yourself properly.

Therefore, there shall be no green text in this CP'ers posts.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Prototype

As I stated in the Clay thread, text, be it email, forum, website, what-have-you, does not give the audience the benifit of inflection, to which sarcastic tone is the main difference in common vocal communication. Green, or oragne, or whatever colour font, is to imply that sarcastic tone.

Someone pointed out that they thought it was more to say, "hey, look over here, I'm being sarcastic". This is not the case, at least not when I use it, but I can understand why it would be in a visual only medium.

I would hate defend a stance I don't actually have, because someone thought that something I said was taken litterally, and I didn't use some colour to show sarcasm.

Would italics work better? (notice no colour nor italics)

Sometimes in a visual only medium, it is next to impossible to tell sarcasm, period.

I think this is my comment that your referring to, but if so, you missed my meaning a little. I'm not suggesting that the person who uses green is grandstanding, and I can appreciate that they're being careful to make sure that nobody misinterprets them. What I was getting at is that sarcasm is effective because our minds enjoy the puzzle of contextually realizing that an otherwise normal sentence is being delivered here with a reversed meaning. When I read a passage highlighted in green, my mind thinks, "Ah, the passage I'm about to read actually means the opposite of what it says." When I read an unmarked sarcastic passage, my mind has no preconceived notions, and then gets part way through and thinks, "What? But... Ah, I see what you did there!"

And you're right that a certain amount of irony is in visual clues and vocal inflection, but there are a lot of grammatical clues that can be used to denote sarcasm. The use of intensifiers, hyperbole, or bluntness can all help deliver an ironic message more effectively. But most of the green posts are obvious enough as sarcasm without the green.

Besides, it's always fun when everybody gets the hidden sarcasm and plays along, and then one poster misses it and angrily disagrees, and we all get to laugh at that poster. Fun times.

[missdpuck]

Agreed Octo. It's fun to be Swiftian!

[Got Miikka?]

To my mind the most effective way to use sarcasm in the written form is to point it out explicitly before resorting to heavy name calling and insults. Let Homer Simpson teach you how:

Dear Mr. Burns,
I'm so glad you enjoyed my son's blood, and your card was just great. In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic. You stink! You are a senile, buck-tooted old mummy with bony girl arms and you smell like an elephant's butt!

[octothorp]

I just remembered reading this article, which is kinda cool, about how the brain actually processes sarcasm and why some people are unable to get it due to neurological reasons.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/he...ch/03sarc.html

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by driveway

Personally, I don't like the green=sarcasm meme.

Neither do I.. it's supposed to be ORANGE people.. GOD

[missdpuck]

Thanks for NYT link Octo. If you haven't read "The Midnight Disease: The Drive to Write,Writer's Block,and the Creative Brain" by Alice W. Flaherty I strongly suggest it. She's a neurologist at Mass General and teaches at Harvard. It's a great study of hypergraphia (my "problem") and other issues related to those like yourself. Definitely one of my all time favorites.BTW by "those like yourself" I mean creative types who write for reasons other than possible glory.

[Table 5]

I think the lack of sarcasm meter is much more prevalent in Americans than Canadians (who seem to be a touch below the Brits in terms of dryness). Most people here take things a lot more literally, so you have to be careful (especially when making jokes about sexy 8 year olds).

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I think the lack of sarcasm meter is much more prevalent in Americans than Canadians (who seem to be a touch below the Brits in terms of dryness). Most people here take things a lot more literally, so you have to be careful (especially when making jokes about sexy 8 year olds).

Agreed. Part of the reason I like hangin' out on the CP so much is that it's kinda like eavesdropping on a bunch of English fratboys. Nothing better!!!!

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

Thanks for NYT link Octo. If you haven't read "The Midnight Disease: The Drive to Write,Writer's Block,and the Creative Brain" by Alice W. Flaherty I strongly suggest it. She's a neurologist at Mass General and teaches at Harvard. It's a great study of hypergraphia (my "problem") and other issues related to those like yourself. Definitely one of my all time favorites.BTW by "those like yourself" I mean creative types who write for reasons other than possible glory.

I'm reading reviews for it now; it sounds like something I'd enjoy. I'm definitely not a fan of the general 'rah rah, you can be a writer' genre of writing books, but I love anything that's about the science of reading, writing, language, etc. I'll look for it and let you know what I think.

[Save Us Sutter]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Neither do I.. it's supposed to be ORANGE people.. GOD

X2

As one the most sarcastic and dry-humoured people in my circle of honoured acquaintances I find myself constantly misinterpreted. Even from my brother who's known me for quite some time now. Doesn't bother me though. As someone above said, it's almost more fun when someone in the crowd thinks you're serious.

As for the green/ORANGE text debate. I, for one, support it for vague statements that you REALLY don't want misunderstood by our CalPuck brethren. Such as the always popular....

I like 8 year olds / I like 8 year olds.

For obvious stuff it's not really necessary.

Dwayne Roloson has the fastest glove hand in the west.

See. No need for any colour there.

[jammies]

I only use green to underline ironic statements which I'm pretty sure other people would make seriously. If it's totally over the top, you shouldn't need to point out that it's ironic, true, but the difference between subtle irony and looking like an idiot is too hard for most people to discern via text, especially if they don't know you particularly well.

What's funny is when you THINK someone is being ironic, and they are serious.

[missdpuck]

Good sig Jammies. "There is an ecstacy that marks the summit of life, beyond which life cannot rise". Read "Call of the Wild" for the first time at age 12 and that quotes been with me since then. Not sure if your quote is Jack London though!

[Weiser Wonder]

I hate the green for sarcasm. As octo talked about, it ruins the whole point of sarcasm.

I don't really know what Roger Ebert is talking about, every one of my buddies go out of their way to be funny about everything. Which can actually be annoying since only a couple of my friends are genuinely funny.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

Good sig Jammies. "There is an ecstacy that marks the summit of life, beyond which life cannot rise". Read "Call of the Wild" for the first time at age 12 and that quotes been with me since then. Not sure if your quote is Jack London though!

Cormac McCarthy.

Funny that I also read Call of the Wild when I was around 12, as well as White Fang. I thought they were very dark novels despite the "young readers" label on them.