Mark Giordano

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

How much of a leg up does Giordano have on guys like Pardy and Pelech? Obviously he has some NHl experience, but could he be overtaken by another young blue liner?

Honestly apples and oranges. Pardy and Pelech I can't see taking away Giordano's job because they fill completely different roles. If Pardy/Pelech are going to make the team it will be at the expense of a guy like Warrener.

Pardy is a good option for your #7 perhaps but Pelech I think you want primarily in QC this year playing a buttload of minutes to continue his development. A good option though as a call-up when needed.

[chris lindberg]

Yes, Pelech and Negrin will likely make the Flames as one of the top four or five defenceman, perhaps we see someone like Bret Palin and Adam Pardy make the team as #6 & #7 defenceman before we see Matt Pelech or John Negrin play in our top five positions on the blueline.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Cammalleri has also played point on the PP in the past and is an option though I suspect one way or another he'll be on the first PP.

First:
Bertuzzi-Langkow-Iginla
Cammalleri-Phaneuf

Second:
Bourque-Lombardi-???
Aucoin-Giordano

I like splitting Bertuzzi/Langkow on the PP because they play very similar games (in front of the net).

For two effective units:

Boyd/Glencross/Bourque-Langkow-Iginla
Phaneuf-Aucoin

Cammalleri-Lombardi-Bertuzzi
Giordano-Conroy

The configuration you suggested would certainly be the best #1 unit, but the #2 unit is lacking.

[wingmaker]

Thanks for the info.

I guess the contest is between Giordano and Aucoin?

My problem is, as mentioned, I'm a bit cautious and a little worried about our defensive coverage this year. I like having a true shut down pair that aren't expected to score goals, just prevent them. Regehr Sarich. Phaneuf is already taking care of the offensive game on the other top unit. That leaves Giordano in the bottom pairing with some powerplay time and not a lot of chance for a promotion. I realize that Pardy and Pelech still need a lot of development, but ultimately their style of play has more of a chance of duty on one of the top lines, should they continue to improve.

Thoughts?

[Burn13]

Giordano has some offensive "flair" like to throw the puck at the net and has some speed, his size was an issue when he was here but I think he makes that up with his tenacity. Plus he's youngish and can excel in the position with playing time.

He'll be a solid 5-7 guy.

[chris lindberg]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The question mark is whether his defensive game is good enough to play anymore than #6 minutes.

That goes for all of them, who gets top four minutes on the Flames defence, Phaneuf's partner assuming Regehr & Sarich are kept together.

Aucoin, nope not last year
Eriksson, bad experience with him playing 2nd pairing minutes
Warrener, I highly doubt it, sure would be nice though
Giordano, well, he did play big minutes in Russia
Vandermeer, most say he can't do it for too long, game in and game out
Pelech, he may be ready, we will see
Negrin, Sutter thinks he's ready, perhaps another Leopold here
Pardy, most likely scenario?
Palin, the darkhorse who may surprise
Wilson, has the skill but will most likely need experience at the pro level

So, it pretty much comes down to Giordano, Vandermeer, Pelech or Negrin which is one of the reasons why I believe we may see another top four defenceman brought in this year, Jay Bouwmeester in the New Year would be a nice addition.

[Claeren]

Long term you have to hope that Negrin or Pelech can fill in that spot with Phaneuf.

Phaneuf has proven to be hard to match though, so it seems to depend more on chemistry than playing style. That could be Giordano's chance -- or it may fall down the prospect depth chart.


However Pelech and Negrin are both far better served with a year in the AHL than in the NHL. Calgary has enough depth we have that option now and I think we will continue to turn out more prepared and well developed NHL'ers because of it.

In 2 years that would give us a very solid top 4 that is young yet experienced. A 30 year old Regehr (10+ year NHL veteran) leading Sarich and Phaneuf (both with a lot of games for their ages) and getting upside out of Pelech or Negrin.

Regehr/Sarich
Phaneuf/Negrin or Pelech

Pelech was a year behind at the draft due to injury so this is his final catch-up year and Negrin needs to learn the speed of the pro-game to really have a chance at being a star in the NHL one day (v. yet another one-dimensional offensive-minded-defenseman with lapses in defending at the NHL level).



Claeren.

[wingmaker]

Unless some rookie can just come out smokin, we sort of NEED another top 4. As I've posted in another thread, here's hoping Sarich makes some headway.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

Unless some rookie can just come out smokin, we sort of NEED another top 4. As I've posted in another thread, here's hoping Sarich makes some headway.

Sarich isn't the issue - he is what he is - an adequate #4.

What the Flames lack is a dependable every-day partner for Phaneuf.

I suspect we won't see one but rather will see Phaneuf play with a host of others depending on the situation and game.

[Brad Marsh]

Originally Posted by SebC

I like splitting Bertuzzi/Langkow on the PP because they play very similar games (in front of the net).

For two effective units:

Boyd/Glencross/Bourque-Langkow-Iginla
Phaneuf-Aucoin

Cammalleri-Lombardi-Bertuzzi
Giordano-Conroy

The configuration you suggested would certainly be the best #1 unit, but the #2 unit is lacking.

I might be off here SebC, but I see Langkow as someone who definitely drives to the net with or without the puck, but who doesn't necessarily play in front of the net the same way Bertuzzi does: namely, parking in front of the net - big body, big screen, soft hands.

I bet if the Bertuzzi-Langkow-Iginla line show some chemistry and production early on then they will be the #1 unit. Keenen really plays the top PP unit a lot too.

If they are struggling for any reason, switching up Bertuzzi for Cammalleri is nice option to have. Otherwise, I think Cammalleri and Lombardi will anchor a very speedy second unit.

And I'm not sold on having Cammalleri play point on the PP. Just personal preferences, but I've always thought playing a skilled forward like that on the point during a PP is a bit of a waste. He is likely to get more scoring chances playing forward on the second PP unit, IMO. What you really want to see from that point position on the PP is the puck getting through to the net - and Phaneuf, Aucoin, Giordano, and even Regher have demonstrated the ability to do that pretty effectively. Heck, even Vandermeer, who also has a heavy shot, showed he can get the puck through last year.

And since this thread is supposed to be more about Giordano, I must say how excited I am to see him in the lineup. And it isn't because I think he is some kind of savior. What I see is a young player who has some foot speed, can move the puck up the ice, and who will almost certainly contribute on the PP. Those are some meaningful benefits that will really help this team, especially from a player coming from the 5/6 spot on D.

[Claeren]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Sarich isn't the issue - he is what he is - an adequate #4.

What the Flames lack is a dependable every-day partner for Phaneuf.

I suspect we won't see one but rather will see Phaneuf play with a host of others depending on the situation and game.

Exactly.

Sarich is a great #4 defender and people get upset because he is not more than that. He is expected to be the #4 guy, he is paid to be the #4 guy and he performs (and is healthy/consistant) as that #4 guy all season long. Seems like a good arrangement?

Unfortunatly I think these types of guys take a beating in public because they cannot clutch and grab their way to greatness like they used to. ALL defenders are getting walked around more often than before the NHL changed/enforced the rules to make sure it was the case. It does not mean he is not a solid #4 guy.



It is Phaneuf that throws all the combinations off. The guy has yet to find any chemistry with anyone other than perhaps Hamrlik -- and it is not like their defending was steller either...




Claeren.

[wingmaker]

I agree, Sarich would be an fine #4. But right now he is #3. I just think it would be great if he improved after his experience last year into a more reliable defender. That might give us some more options in the top four. Right now, he is sort of cemented in beside Regehr because any other combination would be vulnerable. An improved Sarich might just allow for a Sarich Phaneuf pairing, or a Regehr Phaneuf pairing (if they could get it together).

Just some thoughts.

[Nehkara]

Aucoin should theoretrically be a top 4. If he sticks around, he will be one to watch to see if he can get it together in the defensive zone enough to move into the top 4. As of right now we will probably be playing with three true top 4 d-men, and four 5-7 d-men.

[chris lindberg]

Another aspect in all of this is, who's plays left and right defence? Sarich, Aucoin, Warrener, Pelech and Palin shoot right, the rest shoot left although Phaneuf can also play the right side.

[Claeren]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

I agree, Sarich would be an fine #4. But right now he is #3. I just think it would be great if he improved after his experience last year into a more reliable defender. That might give us some more options in the top four. Right now, he is sort of cemented in beside Regehr because any other combination would be vulnerable. An improved Sarich might just allow for a Sarich Phaneuf pairing, or a Regehr Phaneuf pairing (if they could get it together).

Just some thoughts.

Sutter has said specifically that he brought in Sarich to partner with Regehr over the long term. They are together on purpose, not because Sarich is stuck there or something.




Claeren.

[Brad Marsh]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Sarich isn't the issue - he is what he is - an adequate #4.

What the Flames lack is a dependable every-day partner for Phaneuf.

I suspect we won't see one but rather will see Phaneuf play with a host of others depending on the situation and game.

Not much turnover on the back-end this year at all really. The only new face will be Giordano, and I don't think many here would advocate for him to play top 4.

Since his acquisition, Jim Vandermeer seems to have been the go-to guy when it comes to a partner for Phaneuf. I actually thought they had good chemistry and played pretty well together last year. Vandermeer is an above average skater and puck-mover and we all know how physical he is. While no Roman Hamrlik, he seemed to be the best of the bunch in terms of playing with Phaneuf.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

Aucoin should theoretrically be a top 4. If he sticks around, he will be one to watch to see if he can get it together in the defensive zone enough to move into the top 4. As of right now we will probably be playing with three true top 4 d-men, and four 5-7 d-men.

I agree with the 'four 5-7 d-men' but Aucoin is what we've seen is what we get. The only ones with any up-side are Giordano and maybe Vandermeer, which is why I think Giordano will get a shot playing with Phaneuf.

On a side note, the defence should start out on the right foot this season as they are all familiar with each other and the system.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Brad Marsh

I might be off here SebC, but I see Langkow as someone who definitely drives to the net with or without the puck, but who doesn't necessarily play in front of the net the same way Bertuzzi does: namely, parking in front of the net - big body, big screen, soft hands.

You're not wrong, you just see things a bit differently to me. Langkow doesn't have the size to screen the goalie the way Bertuzzi can, but he's got the hands in tight for deflections, rebounds, and shots in the slot. Whilst Langkow certainly plays higher than Bertuzzi would, I still think that they'd be too close to maximize the effectiveness of both. Whilst Bertuzzi can also play the perimeter passer role, I'd rather he be parked in front of the net on the second unit. If you let him be a perimeter player then that's all he will be. Make him be the guy who plays the Holmstrom role.

Originally Posted by Brad Marsh

I bet if the Bertuzzi-Langkow-Iginla line show some chemistry and production early on then they will be the #1 unit. Keenen really plays the top PP unit a lot too.

Yeah, all signs point to this happening. But that doesn't mean I have to like it! I just don't like our right wing depth with Bertuzzi playing LW. Iginla-?-Moss-Roy. Iginla-Bertuzzi-Moss-Roy looks good, whilst leaving the still-solid Cammalleri-Bourque-Boyd-Glencross-Nystrom on the left. This assumes our centres will be Langkow-Lombardi-Conroy-Primeau-Prust. Obviously the second line RW will be a converted LW, and I'd rather use the experienced veteran who has played that role before than put a younger guy in a situation he might not be prepared to handle. I think you maximize their effectiveness that way.

Originally Posted by Brad Marsh

If they are struggling for any reason, switching up Bertuzzi for Cammalleri is nice option to have. Otherwise, I think Cammalleri and Lombardi will anchor a very speedy second unit.

You'll notice that I too want to see this. However, I've got the third guy on that line as Bertuzzi. The downside of this (spreading the offence) is that you'll have one of the younger guys riding shotgun on the first line. I know many don't like this, but I think you'll get more total offense with this configuration than by stacking the top line (and top PP unit). Iginla doesn't need two stars on his line - his best goal total was with Conroy and McAmmond. He played with Conroy and Gelinas on the team that went to the SCF. His performance didn't suffer, and he brought up the guys he played with. Re-create that with some of the lesser parts available to this years team, and the top line doesn't suffer at all, whilst the second line improves vastly.

Originally Posted by Brad Marsh

And I'm not sold on having Cammalleri play point on the PP. Just personal preferences, but I've always thought playing a skilled forward like that on the point during a PP is a bit of a waste. He is likely to get more scoring chances playing forward on the second PP unit, IMO. What you really want to see from that point position on the PP is the puck getting through to the net - and Phaneuf, Aucoin, Giordano, and even Regher have demonstrated the ability to do that pretty effectively. Heck, even Vandermeer, who also has a heavy shot, showed he can get the puck through last year.

And since this thread is supposed to be more about Giordano, I must say how excited I am to see him in the lineup. And it isn't because I think he is some kind of savior. What I see is a young player who has some foot speed, can move the puck up the ice, and who will almost certainly contribute on the PP. Those are some meaningful benefits that will really help this team, especially from a player coming from the 5/6 spot on D.

Agreed.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Claeren

Exactly.

Sarich is a great #4 defender and people get upset because he is not more than that. He is expected to be the #4 guy, he is paid to be the #4 guy and he performs (and is healthy/consistant) as that #4 guy all season long. Seems like a good arrangement?

Unfortunatly I think these types of guys take a beating in public because they cannot clutch and grab their way to greatness like they used to. ALL defenders are getting walked around more often than before the NHL changed/enforced the rules to make sure it was the case. It does not mean he is not a solid #4 guy.

.

Yup - in general I think dmen get unfairly hammered. Bottom line is if Sarich didn't have the occasional mistake he would be what Robyn Regehr is - a premier shutdown dman.

When a dman makes a mistake it typically leads to a scoring chance or worse yet a goal - sorry the mistakes are more noticeable but that's why #4 guys are #4 guys and why #6 guys are #6 guys.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by chris lindberg

That goes for all of them, who gets top four minutes on the Flames defence, Phaneuf's partner assuming Regehr & Sarich are kept together.

Aucoin, nope not last year
Eriksson, bad experience with him playing 2nd pairing minutes
Warrener, I highly doubt it, sure would be nice though
Giordano, well, he did play big minutes in Russia
Vandermeer, most say he can't do it for too long, game in and game out
Pelech, he may be ready, we will see
Negrin, Sutter thinks he's ready, perhaps another Leopold here
Pardy, most likely scenario?
Palin, the darkhorse who may surprise
Wilson, has the skill but will most likely need experience at the pro level

So, it pretty much comes down to Giordano, Vandermeer, Pelech or Negrin which is one of the reasons why I believe we may see another top four defenceman brought in this year, Jay Bouwmeester in the New Year would be a nice addition.

He did? What kind of minutes was he playing?