What's with the Traffic in Calgary?

[Shawnski]

First of all REDVAN, I apologize for the shot about the pitching. I was trying to make a point, and that wasn't the best way to do it. Sorry mate.

I don't remember when exactly, but long ago I used to think like you do now.

Things change. Too many close calls. Road debris, other speeders. It all added up. At some point I changed. I slowed down. Glad I did as it has saved my bacon on a couple occasions where I would have been toast if I was driving as fast as I used to.

Anyway, I am out of this one. Going golfing.

Again, sorry for the cheap shot.

[FanIn80]

I haven't read through this entire thread, so it may have already been stated... but...



This is NOT A MERGE LANE. The people traveling eastbound on Glenmore to get onto northbound Deerfoot have the right of way. The other guys traveling from southbound Deerfoot onto eastbound Glenmore have a yield sign!

I go this route every day on the way home from the office. At least three times a week, I have to slam my brakes on because some nimrod in front of me has slowed down (and sometimes even stopped!) to let someone coming off Deerfoot go in front of them.

Yes, it's the nice thing to do. It's polite, it's friendly... you're a nice guy, I get it.

But you're going to KILL somebody!

Right of way is meant to induce traffic flow. This means that the twenty cars driving behind you on eastbound Glenmore are not expecting you to stop. They are expecting you to forsake your niceness in the name of respecting the rules of the road and continuing the flow of traffic. They are not expecting to have to slam on their brakes because you've decided to let somebody with a YIELD sign go in front of you.

This also goes for the jerks that ignore the yield sign and decide to force-merge with everyone else.

Merge lanes only work when it's an actual merge lane and everyone is expecting a merge to take place... they do not work when you're merging from a red light, a stop sign or a yield sign.

That isn't called merging, it's called breaking the law and endangering everyone around you!



/rant

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

My point is that people who don't understand how to drive, or are too timid while driving, OR TOO AGGRESSIVE, generally mess it up for everyone else. I am a fast driver, yes, but I am also pretty good. Even if you disagree, consider this type of thing as possible, please. Just because I drive fast doesn't mean I am dangerous, and a lot of people are too ignorant to even consider that a young guy can go fast without being a danger to everyone else. Get over yourselves and consider the possibility that I am right, just as I have had to listen to the mantra that speed kills. I say irresponsibilty kills. Dumb driving kills. Speed itself does not kill.

But what is your point? You can speed (which makes you less safe) because other people are less safe than you without speeding?

Where does that logic end? If I can drive safely while texting....?

What it boils down to is that there a few things that drivers are not permitted to do because it will make them less safe. Speeding is one of them. It's not practical to have a set of rules for the cognitively gifted like yourself.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

OK Chris, I have met you in person many times, and I do like you. That said, it is time to duck.. literally and figuratively. What you are portraying is the typical aggressive jerk on the roads.

You want a test of your "general motor skills"? Let's take slopitch as an example. You pitched in at least our game, and I know you have done others. As for dexterity, an aspect of motor skills, I was less than impressed by your ability to even throw a strike. You tried, yes. But your control of a simple pitch was below average. And that was simply throwing an object to a target.

If you want to dwell further on that, and you want a "test" of those skills, I would be happy to oblige.

I propose a "pitcher killer" contest. Me against you.

Unlike normal play, where everyone USUALLY does their damndest to avoid drilling a shot up the middle at the pitcher, you and I will go head to head on who CAN drill the other guy.

Now you are what, 24? And I am your polar opposite.. 42. You think you have better motor skills, brain function, yada yada yada... but in a head to head like this, not only would I destroy you, I might actually kill you.

I, however, have no such concern as I have already defended myself for decades from just such events. I can and will defend myself.

Similar to driving, I would indicate. You don't think about defense, just offense. I have mastered both.

Bottom line , errr, REDVAN, I think you are a great, fun guy. But on this front, you need a reality check. I will provide it if I have to.

You hit at me, I hit at you. Bring your own ambulance.

Chris vs. Shawn in 'Battle of the Brawn'!!!!

[4X4]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

This is NOT A MERGE LANE. The people traveling eastbound on Glenmore to get onto northbound Deerfoot have the right of way. The other guys traveling from southbound Deerfoot onto eastbound Glenmore have a yield sign!

I go this route every day on the way home from the office. At least three times a week, I have to slam my brakes on because some nimrod in front of me has slowed down (and sometimes even stopped!) to let someone coming off Deerfoot go in front of them.

Yes, it's the nice thing to do. It's polite, it's friendly... you're a nice guy, I get it.

But you're going to KILL somebody!

Right of way is meant to induce traffic flow. This means that the twenty cars driving behind you on eastbound Glenmore are not expecting you to stop. They are expecting you to forsake your niceness in the name of respecting the rules of the road and continuing the flow of traffic. They are not expecting to have to slam on their brakes because you've decided to let somebody with a YIELD sign go in front of you.

This also goes for the jerks that ignore the yield sign and decide to force-merge with everyone else.

Merge lanes only work when it's an actual merge lane and everyone is expecting a merge to take place... they do not work when you're merging from a red light, a stop sign or a yield sign.

That isn't called merging, it's called breaking the law and endangering everyone around you!



/rant

Man oh man... These people kill me. But I don't think they're being nice. They're intimidated and they don't know the rules of the road. These are the people that see another vehicle heading in their direction and they freak out and slow down thinking that the other guy MAY not stop.

Some people call this defensive driving. I call it uneducated stupidity. Defensive driving is looking ahead of the car you're following to have a firm grasp on what is going on on the road. Defensive driving is making eye contact with the driver at the perpendicular street to make sure they're stopping. Stopping when you have the right of way is dangerous. It causes confusion.


I just observed another version of this type of thing. Heading around a nice, round right turn lane with a merge at the end, the person in front of me did not bother looking to see if it was clear until she was around the corner. Of course, she had to hit the brakes and shoulder check to see if it was clear. It was totally clear. The light was red. You could see it was clear allll the way around the corner. How can someone not see this? Who are these idiots that focus on the asphalt right in front of them at all times? Can you not look around and still steer your car in the direction you want to go?

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I want front row seats to this event...!

+1. If this goes down, I'll pay for a keg of Traditional...

[MaxPower]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I just observed another version of this type of thing. Heading around a nice, round right turn lane with a merge at the end, the person in front of me did not bother looking to see if it was clear until she was around the corner. Of course, she had to hit the brakes and shoulder check to see if it was clear. It was totally clear. The light was red. You could see it was clear allll the way around the corner. How can someone not see this? Who are these idiots that focus on the asphalt right in front of them at all times? Can you not look around and still steer your car in the direction you want to go?

I experience this every single day on my home from work. People focusing on what's directly in front of their face is another thing that drives me nuts stop and go traffic, or just at traffic lights. Collectively, the people that don't move until the car in front of them has long gone already contribute more to traffic delays any other factor. I start moving when the car two ahead starts moving, I don't need 1.5 car lengths between me and the guy in front when moving 10kph.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I haven't read through this entire thread, so it may have already been stated... but...



This is NOT A MERGE LANE. The people traveling eastbound on Glenmore to get onto northbound Deerfoot have the right of way. The other guys traveling from southbound Deerfoot onto eastbound Glenmore have a yield sign!

I go this route every day on the way home from the office. At least three times a week, I have to slam my brakes on because some nimrod in front of me has slowed down (and sometimes even stopped!) to let someone coming off Deerfoot go in front of them.

Yes, it's the nice thing to do. It's polite, it's friendly... you're a nice guy, I get it.

But you're going to KILL somebody!

Right of way is meant to induce traffic flow. This means that the twenty cars driving behind you on eastbound Glenmore are not expecting you to stop. They are expecting you to forsake your niceness in the name of respecting the rules of the road and continuing the flow of traffic. They are not expecting to have to slam on their brakes because you've decided to let somebody with a YIELD sign go in front of you.

This also goes for the jerks that ignore the yield sign and decide to force-merge with everyone else.

Merge lanes only work when it's an actual merge lane and everyone is expecting a merge to take place... they do not work when you're merging from a red light, a stop sign or a yield sign.

That isn't called merging, it's called breaking the law and endangering everyone around you!



/rant

Related, but different:

Coming off of 16th Ave Eastbound onto either 36th Street or 52nd street Northbound, there is also a yield sign, but there is a lane to drive into. I still haven't figured out who you are supposed to yield to, as the lane you drive into.

A while back, there was a letter to the editor in the Herald from some woman complaining that she felt unsafe when she yields at those places, because the people behind her don't think she's going to stop. Frankly, there is no reason to stop, or to yield.

It's a signage issue from the city. There are other similar places too, I think McKnight Westbound to Deerfoot southbound has the same situation.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by MaxPower

I experience this every single day on my home from work. People focusing on what's directly in front of their face is another thing that drives me nuts stop and go traffic, or just at traffic lights. Collectively, the people that don't move until the car in front of them has long gone already contribute more to traffic delays any other factor. I start moving when the car two ahead starts moving, I don't need 1.5 car lengths between me and the guy in front when moving 10kph.

Quoted for truth.

This garbage is not that complicated!

[driveway]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

Dumb driving kills. Speed itself does not kill.

In this you are both right and wrong.

You are right because it has been demonstrated in a number of studies that there is no correlation between speed and frequency of accidents. You are just as likely to have an accident at 30kph as you are at 80 or 120.

However, what has also been conclusively demonstrated (and is, I think, self-evident) is that there is a direct correlation between speed and severity of accidents. An accident taking place at 80kph is going to be several orders of magnitude more severe than one taking place at 30 and several orders less severe than one taking place at 120.

So, while you are not making it more or less likely that you will be in an accident if you choose to speed, you are making it vastly more certain that you, or someone else, will be killed should one occur.

Therefore, depending on which semantic meaning you choose to take, you are both right and very wrong about speed not killing.

[MaxPower]

Originally Posted by driveway

In this you are both right and wrong.

You are right because it has been demonstrated in a number of studies that there is no correlation between speed and frequency of accidents. You are just as likely to have an accident at 30kph as you are at 80 or 120.

However, what has also been conclusively demonstrated (and is, I think, self-evident) is that there is a direct correlation between speed and severity of accidents. An accident taking place at 80kph is going to be several orders of magnitude more severe than one taking place at 30 and several orders less severe than one taking place at 120.

So, while you are not making it more or less likely that you will be in an accident if you choose to speed, you are making it vastly more certain that you, or someone else, will be killed should one occur.

Therefore, depending on which semantic meaning you choose to take, you are both right and very wrong about speed not killing.

I agree with this post almost 100% but what bothers me is that it is not the approach or stance taken by legislation/law enforcement. Their mantra is and has always been "Speed Kills", disguising traffic laws (namely speeding violations) as existing solely for public safety.

The problem here is you have more and more accidents caused directly by driver inattentiveness, most relevant right now is the cell phone/texting issue. Yes, speed had an effect in these accidents (ANY speed will), but if you eliminate the cause, you WILL eliminate the effect. There is a blitzkreig campaign against speeding (which is a problem only after an accident is caused) but virtually nothing addressing the CAUSE of these accidents.

Another issue is vehicle weight. For the most part, accident severity is analogous to the kinetic energy of the bodies (vehicles) involved. The kinetic energy is equal to 0.5*(mass)*(speed)^2.

While an increase in speed will have the most effect, vehicle weight plays a large role in accident severity. Yet speed limits are constant across the board for every vehicle (at least here they are). What I gather from this is either:

a) The limit is safe for most passenger car/trucks on the road. This means it is completely unsafe for heavy vehicles, like semi trucks hauling loads and the current legislation has intentionally exposed the entire public to danger.

b) The limit is safe for the heavier vehicles on the road. This means the rest (huge majority) of us have to travel much slower than we are safely capable of, increasing our travel time. (This is not a trivial point, if it was, the limit would be 20kph everywhere and no one would ever get hurt in a car accident.) We also get fined for traveling above this speed, not because it's unsafe, but because it's an arbitrary, easily enforced setpoint.

None of this is address or discussed by legislators because eventually one of two questions would have to be asked:
1) Has the Government knowingly exposed the majority of public road users to danger by allowing heavy vehicles to exceed safe speeds?
2) Has the Government been collecting the money of it's citizens in the form of speeding fines under the guise of enhancing public safety, where in reality they knew the public was not in reasonable danger?

I firmly believe that b) is the case and that 2) is the question that should be asked. Sadly, I know it will never happen, I'm just sick of seeing people, myself included, crucified for speeding.

[REDVAN]

Shawnski, I am still down for the battle, but I'd like it to be more friendly. Perhaps at the batting cages? haha

I'll meet you there, so that driving doesn't become an issue! Trad can still bring the keg of Trad!

[4X4]

Woo hoo!!!

[4X4]

Hey REDVAN, wanna race there?

[RougeUnderoos]

What is wrong with the "construction planning" with all these road projects.

Today going north on Deerfoot to the Glenmore turnoff -- we get to where we can see the turnoff, but can't use it. All sorts of pylons and a fence and an arrow that points us to some piddling little road that ends up at Superstore. No warning whatsoever. Nothing. So people are lined up out onto Deerfoot expecting to get onto Glenmore and you don't find out until you get in there, far beyond the point of no return.

Another thing I noticed today was all that construction on Memorial heading east. There's maybe a kilometer or more of the boulevard and the right hand shoulder under construction. Not even the road itself as far as I can tell, but they've blocked it off so you have one lane of traffic. In all that stretch of construction there was one guy working on the site. One effing guy. This was 3:00 in the afternoon on a week day. Why do they do this? They started the project, messed up the roads, then essentially abandoned it.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

What is wrong with the "construction planning" with all these road projects.

Today going north on Deerfoot to the Glenmore turnoff -- we get to where we can see the turnoff, but can't use it. All sorts of pylons and a fence and an arrow that points us to some piddling little road that ends up at Superstore. No warning whatsoever. Nothing. So people are lined up out onto Deerfoot expecting to get onto Glenmore and you don't find out until you get in there, far beyond the point of no return.

Another thing I noticed today was all that construction on Memorial heading east. There's maybe a kilometer or more of the boulevard and the right hand shoulder under construction. Not even the road itself as far as I can tell, but they've blocked it off so you have one lane of traffic. In all that stretch of construction there was one guy working on the site. One effing guy. This was 3:00 in the afternoon on a week day. Why do they do this? They started the project, messed up the roads, then essentially abandoned it.

Let me tell you about the time they painted lines on Deerfoot on a Saturday afternoon. It was back in the summer of '08. A gorgeous Saturday, sun shining, windows open, scantily clad chicks in vehicles lower than mine so I could get a good look at their entire bodies... When SUDDENLY traffic sloooows down to 15kph. An accident on the Calf Robe, you might surmise? No. Smooth (15kph) sailing over the Calf Robe. Lots of people trying to exit on Glenmore, you say? Wrong again!
A line painting truck going down the center lane of Deerfoot, in the middle of a busy saturday afternoon, LOLing@Calgary.

[MaxPower]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

What is wrong with the "construction planning" with all these road projects.

Today going north on Deerfoot to the Glenmore turnoff -- we get to where we can see the turnoff, but can't use it. All sorts of pylons and a fence and an arrow that points us to some piddling little road that ends up at Superstore. No warning whatsoever. Nothing. So people are lined up out onto Deerfoot expecting to get onto Glenmore and you don't find out until you get in there, far beyond the point of no return.

Another thing I noticed today was all that construction on Memorial heading east. There's maybe a kilometer or more of the boulevard and the right hand shoulder under construction. Not even the road itself as far as I can tell, but they've blocked it off so you have one lane of traffic. In all that stretch of construction there was one guy working on the site. One effing guy. This was 3:00 in the afternoon on a week day. Why do they do this? They started the project, messed up the roads, then essentially abandoned it.

ha, no kidding. I'm convince that half of these "construction zones" are only there to catch speeders in them.