Hospitals are a joke, where is all the Alberta money going???

[LChoy]

Sorry to hear about your grandma. Unfortunately these stories aren't new and we hear about it all the time.
I work for Health and have moved around to several different divisions and I could give the insiders perspective (although they discourage us from forums/blogging so I can't stray too far from the party line).

We know the system needs fixing but we can't throw anymore money at it. Our budget last year was 14 Billion. As a former Minister commented, we just can't start taking other people's (Ministries) lunch. The current Minister is a numbers guy, and has a mandate to restructure and essentially slash dead weight to speed up the acute side. As a result, we now have the super board which will try to keep RHA spending in line. Ambulances have been taken over so they have a constant form of funding. A program for rare disease and medications is in the works, as well as a Alberta Pharmacutical plan. The Pharmacutical plan is especially important as a large portion of that 14 billion is going towards drugs. There are models being developed to look at funding hospitals based on per patient or incentive level funding to creat efficiencies. The other provinces are mad at us since the last round of salary talks, our doctors and nurses are the highest paid in the country (esp in Ontario where doctors and nurses will be wanting the same deal soon).

Another major thing that needs fixing. We need to get people to be nurse aids since no one wants to do that job when they can make the same working at Tim Hortons. Nurse aids are important, but unfortunately they are at the bottom of the nursing food chain. Training is only a 2 year certificate, but in our rich province, people strive to be LPNs and RNs. In Alberta hospitals, there isn't enough nurse aids to clean, disinfect, and transfer people out. RNs and LPNs take on this additional responsibility and there are delays.

On a related note, we are entering a time when there is an increasing demand for Continuing care beds. There just isn't enough, and construction of more long term care buildings and facilities are in the works. Until then, we have people in hospitals that have to wait for such faciliy/bed. People in hospitals can't move so they occupy space for people in ER that needs to be admitted. That backs up ER for those that need to be seen. EMS can't leave patients until they are admitted into ER so they just sit there which creates a shortage for ambulances....you can see how a backlog forms.

Lastly, from a personal perspective. I spent a year working under the public health and prevention division in health. Things would be a lot better if people just took better care of themselves. The huge drain from chronic disease is largely preventable. It's just cheaper for prevention than treatment. This will get worse as experts forecast that our generation may be the first to have a lifespan lower than our parents. Cut back the drinking, quit smoking, eat a more balance diet so that you can reduce the chances of needing continuing care beds and other more advanced medical services.

1 last thing. There are common misconceptions about public and private healthcare. Most of our health care is delivered by private practice. However, it's a public system because the government will pay most of your bills from the Health premiums it collects (and soon, just out of provincial taxes). Doctors are all individual companies, in fact some of the Incorporate themselves (ie. Dr. John Smith Inc). They see you, and then put together a bill for the services and send it to the government (provided they are services provided publically by the Health Act).

Sorry for the long post, and I'm sorry again at how the system is letting people down

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

I know many people will beat me for even mentioning this but there is $17 billion in the Heritage Fund...

Since when does throwing money at a problem solve it?

Seems like everyone is pissed off that Alberta isn't spending enough on health care, but last time I checked, those same people always complain about the US, who happens to spend more on health care than any other country in the world.

I'm the first person that would agree with building 3 more hospitals in Calgary, but who is going to work there? Every single person who has posted in this thread and works for the health region has said that there is a huge staff shortage.

This problem isn't going to be solved overnight, despite anyones best intentions.

We need to invest money into the whole cycle. Housing, schooling, hospitals, etc, etc. And provide huge incentives to out of province doctors to come work here.

Also, the problem is only in major cities. I can get into ER here in small-town Alberta instantly.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Jayems

I blame drug users, homeless people and others for their flagrant abuse of the hospital system. One guy cost the system over $1 million in just 1 year. Anyone who works knows the name....[edit]. Think they finally just shipped him off.

So while you're sitting there waiting for 9+ hours, know that a huge chunk of the beds are taken because someone huffed paint for the 3rd time that day and is making his 2nd hospital visit (via ambulance) of the day. Think they'll pay a penny?

But what else can you do? Can't refuse them treatment.

edit: maybe i'll leave his name out of this.

Thats the beauty of a public system. 5-10% of the people take up 95% of the resources, and when H&L grandmother has a problem, its impossible for her to get care.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'll take back the comment about the economy because you're right it doesn't belong in this thread.

Not only does it NOT belong in this thread, it has absolutely nothing to do with the problem at hand.

Our Health Care problem has nothing to do with the strong/weak economy.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by cKy

Ontario is ranked #1 in that report.. go figure, the biggest populated province has the best health care..

FWIW, how those provinces ranked:

1. Ontario 762
2. British Columbia 705
3. Nova Scotia 696
4. New Brunswick 679
5. Alberta 663
6. Prince Edward Island 636
7. Manitoba 613
8. Quebec 605
9. Saskatchewan 600
10. Newfoundland 592

The report was based on several factors.

In terms of patient rights and information, Alberta ranked 7th. (ON first, NS last)

Primary care, Alberta ranked 4th (ON first, PQ last)

Waiting times, Alberta ranked 9th (PQ first, MB last)

Outcomes, Alberta ranked 5th (NS first, PQ last)

Range of services offered, Alberta ranked 6th (ON first, PEI last)

The report has a brief synopsis of each province at the end. It rightly blasts Alberta for waiting times and states that many Albertans do not have a family doctor. However, most other provinces are taken to task for various reasons, and oddly enough, not all of them are controlled by Conservative governments.

[BBQorMILDEW]

Originally Posted by cKy

I used to work @ the Foothills (and had to use the emergency services WHILE i worked there) and I can say that hospital is the biggest joke I have ever seen. I had so much disdain for that place it played a HUGE factor into my leaving that job.

On my emergency visit, I had fallen on my elbow and the EMERGENCY room took xrays and said it was broken. I had to make an appointment for a cast, which took 2 days to get into (now remember I work there, so I tried to get them to page me when I could get in, but no dice) so I go back 2 days later and get more xrays before the cast.. and the Doctor there says its not even broken.

So who do you trust? Emergency? Doctors? Xray machines???

Barring any major surgery to be done, which sucks in the case of Hacks grannie, I TOTALLY recommend going to Strathmore or a smaller outside community to get your health care..

On a side note, starting January 1st, you dont have to pay Health Care anymore.. so, wheres the money gonna come from?

care to elaborate on the bolded statement?

[automaton 3]

So sorry to hear about your grandma H&L, hopefully she is now getting the care she needs!

As others have mentioned, throwing more money at this is not the solution for Alberta.

IIRC we are getting the WORST "bang for the buck" compared to other Canadian jurisdictions and IIRC Alberta ranks downright terrible in this measure when compared to other western countries.

I don't know what the particular issues are, but there must be some poorly spent money in the current budget which could be put to better use. Just as one example, a friend's wife is an RN...she was telling me that when their current agreement was negotiated, administration insisted on replacing full time permanent postions with 0.6 and 0.8 FTE's, ect. thinking that they could save some $ in the budget. The problem being of course that many of those jobs actually require a full time person, so they end up calling in someone to fill in the gaps, now have to pay them overtime which ends up costing far more in the long run. Short sighted thinking.

As a comparison my grandma in Saskatchewan is getting excellent and timely care. Ditto my grandma in BC.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by BBQorMILDEW

[/b]

care to elaborate on the bolded statement?

Health care premiums are being eliminated.

Though I think he's fallen for the myth that public health care is free.

[mikey_the_redneck]

I had this idea about a drive-thru health care system that would take pressure off hospitals and over filled clinics. Basically, you just drive up to the first window where a nurse will be stationed and you show the wound/symptoms to her, or just get a prescription refill. She enters this into a computer and then you pull up to the next window where the doctor on staff will be stationed. He will then confirm your problem and recommend treatment....................all in about 5-10 minutes! No appointment necessary! This is ESPECIALLY useful for those people who insist on visiting the doctor when they get a slight cough or some sniffling (Grrrrr).

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I had this idea about a drive-thru health care system that would take pressure off hospitals and over filled clinics. Basically, you just drive up to the first window where a nurse will be stationed and you show the wound/symptoms to her, or just get a prescription refill. She enters this into a computer and then you pull up to the next window where the doctor on staff will be stationed. He will then confirm your problem and recommend treatment....................all in about 5-10 minutes! No appointment necessary! This is ESPECIALLY useful for those people who insist on visiting the doctor when they get a slight cough or some sniffling (Grrrrr).

Another idea to consider are user fees, designed to curb abuse, not to limit service or balance budgets. Say, a $5 flat charge for all clinic visits. If a doctor decides they need to see you again to monitor the symptoms, there is no second fee. However, if the doctor decides you wasted their time with something like a minor headache, bodyache, sniffle, minor cut/scrape/bruise, or something else completely nonsensical... they may charge an additional $10-20 fine for system abuse.

The idea is, if people see going to the doctor as a social event, or as a reflex action for any minor discomfort, they'll think twice if there's a $5-$25 cost associated with it. However, if you need to see the doctor, $5 isn't breaking anyone's bank.

[CaptainCrunch]

I like the drive through idea, except the whole, people with crowbars through their head probably shouldn't be driving.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I had this idea about a drive-thru health care system that would take pressure off hospitals and over filled clinics. Basically, you just drive up to the first window where a nurse will be stationed and you show the wound/symptoms to her, or just get a prescription refill. She enters this into a computer and then you pull up to the next window where the doctor on staff will be stationed. He will then confirm your problem and recommend treatment....................all in about 5-10 minutes! No appointment necessary! This is ESPECIALLY useful for those people who insist on visiting the doctor when they get a slight cough or some sniffling (Grrrrr).

I don't know exactly how this is different than now, just that you don't have to get out of your car. These drive through windows would have to be staffed, but those same staff would be more effective in a clinic anyway.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

So really, take your petty anti-Conservative ranting elsewhere. It has no real place in this debate.

Which "anti-conservative ranting" are you referring to exactly? The part where a bunch of posters have reference Klein blowing up the general hospital...cause that wasn't me. I made one comment, and took it back almost as fast as I made it.

My point is that healthcare isn't a priority. You take that to mean money thrown at the issue, where I say that the issue is actually two things:

A) People have been told we already spend a huge portion of the budget and can't afford the care that everyone wants/needs. I think that this is a cop-out and it basically says that we need to lower our expectations because we can't find anything else to do. I am an optimist who thinks that other solutions could provide affordable, excellent health care for all.

B) There has been no real creative solution put forward on how to improve things. Since the early 1990s the province has come up with no long-term plan to rectify things. Admittedly I don't know what the final product looks like...but this is where the government who funds and administers the program needs to step up to the plate with that solution. This has less to do with politics and more to do with having a way to generate solutions to an issue that has been dogging us for over a decade now.

If you take that as anti-conservative that is your issue. All I'm saying is that they are the ones in power and have controlled the entire process, so the outcome rests on their shoulders for better or for worse.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Azure

Not only does it NOT belong in this thread, it has absolutely nothing to do with the problem at hand.

Our Health Care problem has nothing to do with the strong/weak economy.

Thanks for piling on....I've already retracted and said that it doesn't belong in the thread. What more can I do to appease you?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Slava

Thanks for piling on....I've already retracted and said that it doesn't belong in the thread. What more can I do to appease you?

Hah, just making sure.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Azure

Hah, just making sure.

And to think I was actually feeling sorry for you in the Presedential Election Forum!

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I had this idea about a drive-thru health care system that would take pressure off hospitals and over filled clinics. Basically, you just drive up to the first window where a nurse will be stationed and you show the wound/symptoms to her, or just get a prescription refill. She enters this into a computer and then you pull up to the next window where the doctor on staff will be stationed. He will then confirm your problem and recommend treatment....................all in about 5-10 minutes! No appointment necessary! This is ESPECIALLY useful for those people who insist on visiting the doctor when they get a slight cough or some sniffling (Grrrrr).

Not sure if that's going to work in Calgary with this city council:

http://www.660news.com/news/local/ar...26_091858_7828

[Azure]

Another thing that I have SEEN work, is building clinics right on the side of the hospital. Unless you have a 'serious' emergency, you get sent to the clinic.

Problem around here are Natives getting a minor scratch and running into ER demanding they be treated. So, with the clinic attached right on the side of the hospital, the ER is kept open for serious problems.

[Slava]

[quote=Cowboy89;1434969]Not sure if that's going to work in Calgary with this city council:

http://www.660news.com/news/local/article.jsp?content=20080626_091858_7828[/quote]

Well done!

I think/hope that part of this is solved with pharmacists being able to prescribe some medications.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Azure

Another thing that I have SEEN work, is building clinics right on the side of the hospital. Unless you have a 'serious' emergency, you get sent to the clinic.

Problem around here are Natives getting a minor scratch and running into ER demanding they be treated. So, with the clinic attached right on the side of the hospital, the ER is kept open for serious problems.

Natives? I'm not going to bring up whether this is racist or not because I don't care. But honestly, do you think it's only Natives that go to the ER when they've scratched themselves?