Hospitals are a joke, where is all the Alberta money going???

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by Dion

Thanks for the explanation.

Just curious though, is the staffing problem due to budget restraints or simply being unable to hire/train enough staff to do the job?

It is all linked. SAIT wants to increase its number of students but there are not enough clinical practicum sites for students because the hospitals don't have enough people to train them.

We have a huge number of open positions, some posted indefinitely. There are not enough qualified people and that is another symptom of a bigger problem, we need a government that will spend money on post secondary education. They need to work with SAIT, NAIT, the universities, and the health care system in Alberta to get a higher rate of recruitment in health-related programs.

It is a systemic problem and it needs to be addressed, more than just money it needs consideration, study, and rapid effective action. This government, I am convinced, is not capable of fixing this problem.

[REDVAN]

Plain and simple, in a province as rich as ours, you should be able to go into ANY public service and there should be so many employees there waiting to help you that it's not even funny.

Knock on wood, I have never had to use emergency. But my family members have, and it is quite disheartening.

Healthcare is one of those things that should not be skimped on at all. Education is another thing. Now that this province is rich, let's start to invest in the correct places. To be honest, a couple of brand new billion-dollar hospitals and a billion dollar operating cost is much better spent than a billion in the Heritage bank account.

P.S. I also want more Ralph bucks.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

Plain and simple, in a province as rich as ours, you should be able to go into ANY public service and there should be so many employees there waiting to help you that it's not even funny.

Knock on wood, I have never had to use emergency. But my family members have, and it is quite disheartening.

Healthcare is one of those things that should not be skimped on at all. Education is another thing. Now that this province is rich, let's start to invest in the correct places. To be honest, a couple of brand new billion-dollar hospitals and a billion dollar operating cost is much better spent than a billion in the Heritage bank account.

P.S. I also want more Ralph bucks.

The 17 billion dollars in the Heritage Fund could build about 10 new large hospitals. 10. Think about that.

I think we need to tell the Conservatives that our "rainy day fund" is needed because, I dunno about you guys, but I think its pouring out here.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

To be honest, a couple of brand new billion-dollar hospitals and a billion dollar operating cost is much better spent than a billion in the Heritage bank account.

Doesn't Alberta have ~$10B in the bank? Shouldn't that be earning at least 5% somewhere? Does that not amount to ~$500M? Couldn't that fund an extra doctor or two?

I getting pretty suspicious about the money in this province. Not everybody is a Warren Buffet, but is there NO investment sense here? From my high school graduate point of view, it seems to me that having ten billion dollars at your disposal should give you some leeway toward making more money without actually spending any money.

[REDVAN]

I am a pretty right-center political guy, but seeing as how we are awash in money, let's spend it.

Throw up some schools, throw down some hospitals. Give some incentive for people to move here, and increase the number of spots in post-secondary for new medical professionals and tech people.

I do understand that you can't just allow anyone into med school because then you'd let idiots through the cracks, but there are a lot of qualified people.

[4X4]

If Alberta had any kind of leadership, there'd be a major push towards being of the frontier of new energy sources. We're already the energy capital of Canada, and reknowned globally for the same. Why not use some of that money to get some new economy going?

There are so many sources of energy that are in their infancy. We have the money to start to develop the technology. Why aren't we? This is the perfect breeding ground. Taxes are low, money is (theoretically) available grant-wise, tons of space, a very capitalist government (oh, did I already suggest grants? Maybe I should take that one back)...

Back to health care... Sometimes I wonder if the reason why it is never brought up to the upper echelons is to avoid an influx of "sick" people seeking care.

[Fire]

Private health care. Problem solved. More efficient and higher standard of care.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by Fire

Private health care. Problem solved. More efficient and higher standard of care.

The only real example of private health care is the US and it is horrid, inefficient, and of a low quality.

The US is the only developed nation that has private health care. It is a joke. A really sad, unfunny joke.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

We need to study European health care systems. They seem to work well and they are almost all public and universal.

Actually... most European healthcare systems are privately run, publicly regulated facilities, with public facilities mixed in. Essentially, a nice blend of the US and Canadian systems.

There are the pure public systems in Europe that work, but they tend to be in small, homogenous, scandinavian countries, not experiencing much in growth, and have far fewer free riders.

According to a UN Study I read, Canada is ranked 31 in healthcare delivery. The US was pretty close behind at something like 34. I don't remember who was top, but still... nothing to be proud of.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

My 80 year old grandmother needs dialysis 3 times a week because of kidney failure and she also has a malignant tumor (making her unable to sit for long periods of time without pain and bleeding). She is otherwise totally bright and intelligent.

Last week we took her to Foothills Hospital emergency because the dialysis clinic recommended it due to internal bleeding. They called ahead and sent her information. We arrived at 2:00 PM and they made her sit outside in the emergency room chairs (remember she cannot sit) until 12:15 AM before they let her in or anybody saw her because no beds were available. That's over 10 hours.

Today, she was scheduled for surgery this morning to remove her cancerous tumor from her lower GI tract and take care of her pain and internal bleeding and other issues caused by that. Guess what happens? They tell us that it would be delayed an hour or two due to the recovery room being full. The surgical theatre is ready, but the recovery room is full. There are again, no beds. So my grandmother is sitting out there in pain again for hours. Our entire family ends up sitting and pacing for 8-9 hours just today waiting for her "scheduled" surgery which keeps getting delayed and delayed. They are still waiting there now and they tell us it's likely to be cancelled and rescheduled in 2-3 weeks.

My grandmother might not be able to wait 3 weeks, everybody cannot take time off work to sit in a hospital waiting room again (especially when you are bleeding internally)...JUST because they have no beds. Where the hell is all the money in this province in going that the biggest major hospital in Calgary is constantly out of beds and out of room for patients and they have to sit in chairs in the hall? The surgery could have gone ahead, they were simply out of room for the nth time. What the hell is going on here? That hospital was designed in and belongs in the 1950s!!!

This is election season, how do we express our frustrations to our politicians eager for votes? Oh wait, we can't, they are all comfy in AB so they are all campaigning for their buddies in Eastern Canada.

Sorry to hear about this situation. I would be really pissed just like you. The one thing you have to remember is that health care is a provincial matter not a federal one. I voted against the PC's in Alberta last election because I thought Stelmach had no idea what he was doing and I still think he doesn't.

I truely hope your grandmother gets the care she needs.

[Jade]

I think the problem of healthcare is far more complicated than most people here give it credit for. Throwing money from other sources at the problem is not the answer. Just see how well it worked when the Alberta government, wanting to have a higher standard of healthcare, decided to introduce an extra charge for healthcare. The result: federal gov. reduces the healthcare money to the province by that amount, we get the exact same total as the other provinces, but we have to pay part out of our own pockets. What would stop them from doing this again.

As for the long waits, people need to realise they are doing their best. Yes the system needs an overhaul, but the way I would do it is probably different than most. What I see as needed are
1) specialized nurses. We make docs. take specialties, but nurses need as much specific unit training. Unfortunately, the way the union works they can be placed anywhere at any time, meaning you can have a nurse that spent years working in and getting to know the cardiac unit to end up taking blood.
2) Clinics attached to each hospital. Lets all the idiots who think the ER is the place to go for the flu clear out of the way for people who really need to be in the ER
3)Provincial health authority instead of regional. (Although as I understand this is going through) It sounds odd, but it would clear up a lot of beds. Right now, if people want to be switched to long term care in a different region (family reasons etc.) it is almost impossible, leaving them in hospital beds where they start, wasting space.

The other thing that really causes problems is all the unions. The amount of money people in some of those unions make is ridiculous, and is really straining the system. Sometimes unions are necessary, but in health care, its gotten out of control. Starting salary of 33$ + an hour for something that requires a two year training program is too much.

Yes they need new hospital beds, but the reality is no one ever expected calgary to grow this fast. Some things you can't predict. And they are trying, with a new hospital planned for the south, and a couple of new wings being built at foothills. Unfortunately, things that require major planning like this are the last things to catch up to this kind of unexpected growth.

[You Need a Thneed]

Facilities used to be a problem, but once the current construction projects are done, that will be pretty much solved, for now.

Let's review - these are the construction projects that have gone on in the last couple of years, or are underway now:

Airdrie Regional Health Centre - Reno and Upgrade

Cochrane Community Health Centre - New Facility under construction.

East Calgary Health Centre (Forest Lawn) - New facility Under Construction

Foothills Hospital - Major new Expansion - includes shelled space for easy future growth

Peter Lougheed Hospital - Major new expansion - includes shelled space as well

Richmond Road Diagnostic Centre - Renovation of the old Childrens Hospital for Adult diagnostic use - Under construction.

Rockyview Hospital - Major Expansion - also includes shelled space for future.

Sheldon Chumir Centre - Downtown Facility - Completed this year - includes urgent care services.

South Health Campus - Large New Hospital - Under Construction

Alberta Children's Hospital - Brand new state of the art facilty opened a year or two ago.

The Tom Baker Cancer Centre is trying to secure funding to build a new facility as well.

All in all, a MINIMUM of $3 Billion dollars has been or will be spent in the Calgary area just for the construction of these projects.


Now, the problem is finding staff to run these new facilities. The money is there, the people aren't. Hopefully, the lure in working in new facilities will draw workers here.

Once we get all the facilities open, and fully staffed, Calgary WILL have an excellent health care system.

[llama64]

Things won't change in Alberta until we finally grow some balls and elect someone other then the PC's to run the Province. What incentive does a party built around protecting the elite have when they know they can screw 80% of the population and still get an overwhelming majority come election day?

If people are unhappy with the health care system, we have a single party to blame. It's that simple. They've had more then enough time to react, and not much has come down the pipe save for the super board re-organization.

I'm not seeing any plans for a downtown emergency center or hospital.

[Phanuthier]

Sorry to hear that H&L, things do have to change.

Dumb Q, does health care like this fall under federal or provincial?

I've been having following the US election pretty closely and have no idea who's even running for Canada, which is pretty funny.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Sorry to hear that H&L, things do have to change.

Dumb Q, does health care like this fall under federal or provincial?

I've been having following the US election pretty closely and have no idea who's even running for Canada, which is pretty funny.

Healthcare is a provincial matter.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by llama64

I'm not seeing any plans for a downtown emergency center or hospital.

The Sheldon Chumir Centre has an urgent care facilty which can serve probobly 95% of the people that would come into an emergency. The other 5% probobly come in by ambulance anyway, so they can be taken somewhere else.

[cKy]

I used to work @ the Foothills (and had to use the emergency services WHILE i worked there) and I can say that hospital is the biggest joke I have ever seen. I had so much disdain for that place it played a HUGE factor into my leaving that job.

On my emergency visit, I had fallen on my elbow and the EMERGENCY room took xrays and said it was broken. I had to make an appointment for a cast, which took 2 days to get into (now remember I work there, so I tried to get them to page me when I could get in, but no dice) so I go back 2 days later and get more xrays before the cast.. and the Doctor there says its not even broken.

So who do you trust? Emergency? Doctors? Xray machines???

Barring any major surgery to be done, which sucks in the case of Hacks grannie, I TOTALLY recommend going to Strathmore or a smaller outside community to get your health care..

On a side note, starting January 1st, you dont have to pay Health Care anymore.. so, wheres the money gonna come from?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'll take back the comment about the economy because you're right it doesn't belong in this thread. I still stand by the fact that the Conservatives have been in power for 37 years though and we have no one to blame for this mess other than them.

In a province where money is plentiful and obviously people are concerned about this issue there is simply no excuse. You can consider that a politically motivated shot if you want to...I could care less. But the fact is that its really about priorities and its obvious to me that the priority has not been health care in Alberta and continues in this vein with the current administration.

Alberta spends more money per person than any other province on health care. It was forcasted to be $3695 last year. Quebec was the lowest at $2853.

http://secure.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPa...ia_13nov2007_e

And I have news for you, the health care system in the rest if this country is not some utopian scenario where everything works perfectly.

http://canadianpress.google.com/arti...2OG2mw9dNg4SiQ

"Canada placed 23rd out of 30 countries with a score of 550. In its scoring synopsis, the report said Canada's very high level of health care spending means that when adjusted for bang for the buck, it ranks last."

"Canada shared last place with Ireland and Sweden for wait times, which the report called the "weak spot in Canadian health care." The study said Canadians can be subjected to up to four lengthy waits."

http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpo...b-a0a5ab7c8c4c

"Saskatchewan ranked ninth out of 10 provinces with a score of 600. Only Newfoundland did worse with 592 points."

The full report: http://www.fcpp.org/main/publication...php?PubID=2346 Alberta ranked 5th, not great, but not the utter disaster you are making it out to be.

So really, take your petty anti-Conservative ranting elsewhere. It has no real place in this debate.

[cKy]

Ontario is ranked #1 in that report.. go figure, the biggest populated province has the best health care..

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by fotze

I hope you aren't talking about Denmark, because from my family's experiences in living there it is worse than here and suffering from the exact same problem. The thing that gets peoples goat is they have paid much higher taxes than us their entire life and no the health care sucks.

I was thinking Norway and Sweden, but yeah, the dents in their armor are showing up too as their population ages, migration increases and services become more expensive.

The best out of the large nations, Germany, Britain, France, Japan and Italy... are all mixed systems. Technically, Canada is considered a mixed system because of all the privatized/de-listed services, but we are so bogged down with enormous and top-heavy administrative inefficiency, free ridership, and the inefficiency associated with the federal government taking control via overtaxation/money transfer and meddling without consitutional backing, the pitfalls of public healthcare are abundant.

There's two mentalities in Canada that have to go. One, for-profit healthcare is not inherently evil. Two, people are not entitled to abuse the system.