Fleury ashamed to be Canadian...

[transplant99]

Originally posted by Theo
"The one thing that's really bothered me through this whole thing is the prejudice, still, in this country when it comes to Native people," Fleury said.

"I've seen it firsthand in every building we go into -- how these people are treated. It's absolutely embarrassing to be a Canadian and know that stuff is going on.

"I almost called (Hockey Canada president) Bob Nicholson and gave him back my gold medal from the Olympics. That's how much this affected me and meant to me.

"Those are the same people who were cheering for Canada and cheering me on and, at the same time, stabbing the people who I have bloodlines with, who are my brothers, so to speak, in the back.

"That's something that hasn't been a good experience to be around.''

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/CalgarySun/S...006467-sun.html

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

I think that he would find that where ever he went that there was some form of discrimination - especially against natives. Sounds like he is having a sudden realization about what most everyone who looks into the issue now knows. From what I have read a hockey game is similar to a mob mentality where hell I can make those remarks as everyone else is saying them, and getting away with them so why not.

[pacde]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard@Apr 21 2005, 06:31 AM
I think that he would find that where ever he went that there was some form of discrimination - especially against natives. Sounds like he is having a sudden realization about what most everyone who looks into the issue now knows. From what I have read a hockey game is similar to a mob mentality where hell I can make those remarks as everyone else is saying them, and getting away with them so why not.

doesnt justify it - and he is right. We have all seen it and we havent done whats necessary to change it - at least not consistently.

[Deelow]

yes he is right but I wish he wouldn't be such a drama queen.
"I'm gonna give my gold medal back" That's insulting to everyone else that was on that team. I remember when hockey Alberta wouldn't let him play for Horse Lake he said "This is borderline Human rights". Crap. I like Theo but when he says crap like this and always turns into something about him he p*sses me off.

[SoulOfTheFlame]

He's totally right. I've been all over Canada, and it seems the further West I go the more racism I encounter.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

The funny thing about discrimination is that it takes two parties to participate in the action. What Fleury fails to mention is that natives are just as prejudiced as those they level the charges at. I have never heard anyone level a charge of discrimination or racism that they themselves were not discriminatory in nature as well. Its a matter of taking two to tango. Not an excuse, just the way it is. Anyone who has had to go out to Morely or to Sarcee to play any of the native teams in anything can vouch that it is a two way street and the natives use the same discriminatory intimidation tactics to their advantage as well.

[Rory Tate]

Originally posted by SoulOfTheFlame@Apr 21 2005, 07:20 AM
He's totally right. I've been all over Canada, and it seems the further West I go the more racism I encounter.

Now that could be taken as stereotyping in and of itself. I mean, just because those of us in the West are inbred and uneducated...er, wait a minute. Seriously though, these kinds of attitudes do creep in with statements like this, so I think it's important to always keep in mind that group trends (which do exist) cannot apply to individuals. I'm not talking morally or socially unacceptable here (i.e. politically correct)...I'm saying mathematically it is wrong. The logic simply does not hold up under scientific scrutiny. It is only our lazy minds, fearful of strangers, that need to find patterns that tell us who someone is based on their race, colour, etc., without treating them as a real person.

[Looger]

i spent a large portion of my upbringing in lillooet, i think i'm as qualified as any honky to lend some insight.

lillooet has five or so reserves in the area, and the town population is typically 30% aboriginal. there's also ethnic diversity in a japanese minority (lillooet was an internment camp...) and east indians, etc.

there's some decent reserves, like fountain lake, that are run well - and then there's reserves like pavilion, which is run quite badly. lillooet shows you how good the native reparation situation can be, and how bad.

growing up i saw the divisions coming, and you know what, it was native parents taking their kids away from white kids. separate ball leagues. separate after-school activities. native kids that did well at school or tried to hard were beaten up and given real hard times.

what this all taught me was that it's the system that tells native people they're victims, teaches them to resent and hate.

this same system teaches the rest of us canadians that we're always going to have less rights, and so a lot of us end up hating and resenting the native people themselves.

this whole system, as it's set up, fosters racism and hatred and until

EVERY CANADIAN IS BORN WITH EQUAL RIGHTS REfataing_GARDLESS OF WHO THEIR GRANDPARENTS WERE

then we will see racism, hatred, etc.

it will always be there but we in canada are doing everything we can to grow and nurture this divide.

it must end.

[Flashpoint]

I think Theo is absolutely right, and cudos to him for speaking up about it. Canada's past (and to a lesser extent current) treatment of native peoples is shameful, and a real black mark on our otherwise great nation. Most Canadians don't see it or think of it because they aren't around natives, or reservations. It is only when you are in a place like Horse Lake and you see it on a daily basis that you realize what a crap deal these people have gotten.

[Hakan]

This is an amazing quote and I congratulate Fleury for his analysis. I find racism towards the First Nations peoples to be incredibly abhorrent because of the history the Canadian government has had toward them. It's time we Canadians addressed this ugly past and realize how it still haunts and disempowers native people today. Their grievances need to be significantly addressed.

[habernac]

Damn, I agree with Fleury, WTF?!??

As some have stated above, it is a two way street. There's negative feelings on both sides of this. But I can't say I blame the Natives for their negative feelings towards white people. Native Americans have had a terrible deal since the Euros hit the shores 400+ years ago. And its a bloody shame because they have an absolutely fascinating culture.

When I was ten years old, my 2 best friends were part Native. Their father was a big German guy and their mom was full blooded Cree indian. She was 4'10" tall and was one of the toughest women I have ever known. And I've never met a more hard working bunch in my life.

But I also believe you need to want to help yourself as well. My aformetioned friend from the above paragraph ended up moving away from Wetaskiwin because he was tired of dealing with "all of the drunk natives".

[Looger]

Originally posted by Hakan@Apr 21 2005, 03:20 PM
It's time we Canadians addressed this ugly past and realize how it still haunts and disempowers native people today. Their grievances need to be significantly addressed.

with what, money and programs?

NEWS FLASH

this thinking is what keeps native people in the situation they're in.

[Hakan]

EVERY CANADIAN IS BORN WITH EQUAL RIGHTS REfataing_GARDLESS OF WHO THEIR GRANDPARENTS WERE

then we will see racism, hatred, etc.

it will always be there but we in canada are doing everything we can to grow and nurture this divide.

it must end.

I very much agree with you that this will end racism but only in the last instance. We cannot just ignore the horrible past that affects First Nations to this day. That past needs to be acknowledged and understood how it still disenfranchises them. By simply saying you're equal to us now, only does so in rhetoric. We need to look at how real issues class, capital and land are working to marginalize them and give them the proper foundation to rebuild their shattered societies. It may seem that they get preferential treatment but after 200 years of the shinguard end of the stick, it seems like a small pittance.

[MrMastodonFarm]

I'm ashamed Fluery is Canadian, what a baby. Giving back his gold medal? Do it you wuss.

I totally agree with him, alot of natives face alot of racism in this country, but don't threaten something you won't do. Like Deelow says, the drama this guy puts himself into his embaressing.

[Hakan]

Originally posted by Looger+Apr 21 2005, 08:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Looger @ Apr 21 2005, 08:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hakan@Apr 21 2005, 03:20 PM
It's time we Canadians addressed this ugly past and realize how it still haunts and disempowers native people today. Their grievances need to be significantly addressed.

with what, money and programs?

NEWS FLASH

this thinking is what keeps native people in the situation they're in. [/b][/quote]
Hardly.

Money and programs are just a band aid, I agree with that but they are still necessary. So you think we should not give them money and other special programs? How will that make things better? I will remind you that state sponsored assimilation projects for First Nations people have failed miserably.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by Flashpoint@Apr 21 2005, 02:58 PM
I think Theo is absolutely right, and cudos to him for speaking up about it. Canada's past (and to a lesser extent current) treatment of native peoples is shameful, and a real black mark on our otherwise great nation. Most Canadians don't see it or think of it because they aren't around natives, or reservations. It is only when you are in a place like Horse Lake and you see it on a daily basis that you realize what a crap deal these people have gotten.

With all due respect... buuuuuuuuuullshinguard!!!

You want to see discrimination checkout what black people go through in the south. See what Asians go through everywhere. See what hispanics go through everywhere. See what homosexuals go through everywhere, especially with the Red Neck Agenda in full swing. Oh, and this isn't just what white people are doing. Its what ALL colors, creeds and sects are doing to each other. Blacks hate blacks (the African Americans do not like Africans and Carribean blacks and vice versa), blacks hate hispanics, hispanics hate hispanics (Mexicans, Cubans and Puerto Ricans all hate each other), etc. Native A,ericans are in the same boat and are just as hateful towards all of the other groups. It's intollerance and no one group has the right to call out the other as each group is just as responsible. Everyone loves to play the victim, especially when it advances their agenda. For Fleury his agenda is getting sympathy and finding an excuse for the way he is.

One last thing, if Canada wants to fix the problem give the natives self-government and cut them off the dole. No more government money after 2010. You are treated as every other Canadian citizen and have to pull your own weight. Now what will the Feds spend that extra hundred billion dollars on? I'm sure there is an ad campaign someplace that could use a huge infusion of cash.

[peter12]

Originally posted by Hakan+Apr 21 2005, 09:29 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hakan @ Apr 21 2005, 09:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

with what, money and programs?

NEWS FLASH

this thinking is what keeps native people in the situation they're in.

Hardly.

Money and programs are just a band aid, I agree with that but they are still necessary. So you think we should not give them money and other special programs? How will that make things better? I will remind you that state sponsored assimilation projects for First Nations people have failed miserably. [/b][/quote]
The reserve cash handouts is essentially racist. It basically makes sure Indians STAY on the reserve.

You are nurturing these people to be completely dependent on unsustainable resources. How will they ever be equal when they are forced to keep sucking at the government's teat?

[Flashpoint]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald+Apr 21 2005, 10:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lanny_MacDonald @ Apr 21 2005, 10:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Flashpoint@Apr 21 2005, 02:58 PM
I think Theo is absolutely right, and cudos to him for speaking up about it. Canada's past (and to a lesser extent current) treatment of native peoples is shameful, and a real black mark on our otherwise great nation. Most Canadians don't see it or think of it because they aren't around natives, or reservations. It is only when you are in a place like Horse Lake and you see it on a daily basis that you realize what a crap deal these people have gotten.

With all due respect... buuuuuuuuuullshinguard!!!

You want to see discrimination checkout what black people go through in the south. See what Asians go through everywhere. See what hispanics go through everywhere. See what homosexuals go through everywhere, especially with the Red Neck Agenda in full swing. Oh, and this isn't just what white people are doing. Its what ALL colors, creeds and sects are doing to each other. Blacks hate blacks (the African Americans do not like Africans and Carribean blacks and vice versa), blacks hate hispanics, hispanics hate hispanics (Mexicans, Cubans and Puerto Ricans all hate each other), etc. Native A,ericans are in the same boat and are just as hateful towards all of the other groups. It's intollerance and no one group has the right to call out the other as each group is just as responsible. Everyone loves to play the victim, especially when it advances their agenda. For Fleury his agenda is getting sympathy and finding an excuse for the way he is.

One last thing, if Canada wants to fix the problem give the natives self-government and cut them off the dole. No more government money after 2010. You are treated as every other Canadian citizen and have to pull your own weight. Now what will the Feds spend that extra hundred billion dollars on? I'm sure there is an ad campaign someplace that could use a huge infusion of cash. [/b][/quote]
The Canadian government never advocated genocide against any of the groups you mentioned.

They did against Natives. It was called the "White Paper".


Edit: By "genocide" I mean - "The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group." The White paper called for the elimination of distinctions between natives and non natives. It stated that by the year 2000 (it was written in 1969) all "Indians" would be assimilated into white society, or dead.

[Bingo]

Originally posted by SoulOfTheFlame@Apr 21 2005, 07:20 AM
He's totally right. I've been all over Canada, and it seems the further West I go the more racism I encounter.

Yikes ... that's loaded in itself.

Way to paint an entire region of Canada.

Morons are all over the place man.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally posted by Hakan+Apr 21 2005, 04:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hakan @ Apr 21 2005, 04:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

with what, money and programs?

NEWS FLASH

this thinking is what keeps native people in the situation they're in.

Hardly.

Money and programs are just a band aid, I agree with that but they are still necessary. So you think we should not give them money and other special programs? How will that make things better? I will remind you that state sponsored assimilation projects for First Nations people have failed miserably. [/b][/quote]
Money and programs make them dependent, destroy their work ethics etc. They will never be able to get out of their current (miserable?) conditions.

Same thing goes for all unemployment benefits.