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Old 08-31-2008, 05:02 PM   #1
MoneyGuy
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Default Battery memory problems?

Do modern rechargable batteries (laptop computers, cordless phones, etc.) develop memories and lose storage capacity if they're left plugged in? Years ago I used to run my cordless phone battery down to nothing before recharging but I've heard that modern batteries don't have the same memory problems. Now I often leave the cordless phone on the charger. Should I be doing this?
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Old 08-31-2008, 06:53 PM   #2
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Lithium batteries have drasticly imprioved battery memory problems, but I have heard the problem still exist to a smaller degree.

Personally, I just bought NIMH phones that use over the counter AAA rechargable batteries, so if they go kaput, it takes 20 bucks in batteries to replace the batteries in all 4
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Old 08-31-2008, 07:00 PM   #3
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I'm mostly wondering about batteries for laptop computers. I wonder if I should keep them fully charged or run them down before recharging.
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Old 08-31-2008, 07:06 PM   #4
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Lithium-ion batteries have no "memory effect". Most rechargeable electronics use them, but double check yours to make sure.
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Old 08-31-2008, 07:10 PM   #5
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My laptop batteries don't last a year.
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Old 08-31-2008, 07:12 PM   #6
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Never do a deep discharge on a Lithium Ion battery. It will reduce the lifespan of the cell. For example: On my laptop I discharged my batter a few times to almost nothing and the capacity after about 16 months was 35%.

I bought a new battery and it's been about a year and I'm still at 98%. Never let the battery drain more than 40% or so if you can help it.
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Old 08-31-2008, 07:55 PM   #7
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So is it a problem to deep discharge occasionally, say to under 10% once in awhile, or is it definitely to be avoided?
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Old 08-31-2008, 08:25 PM   #8
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So is it a problem to deep discharge occasionally, say to under 10% once in awhile, or is it definitely to be avoided?
I do it occasionaly. For example, sometimes my laptop says my battery is fully charged when it's only at 94-96% (says my iStat widget for my Macbook -I don't know if there's a windows equivalent). After I fully discharge my battery and charge it up again, it charges all the way up to 99%. I've had my laptop for almost 3 years and I've done this maybe 3 times.

I don't know if this is healthy for the battery, but at least I'm getting a full charge after I do it.
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Old 08-31-2008, 09:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaPancakes View Post
I do it occasionaly. For example, sometimes my laptop says my battery is fully charged when it's only at 94-96% (says my iStat widget for my Macbook -I don't know if there's a windows equivalent). After I fully discharge my battery and charge it up again, it charges all the way up to 99%. I've had my laptop for almost 3 years and I've done this maybe 3 times.

I don't know if this is healthy for the battery, but at least I'm getting a full charge after I do it.
There's a couple things going on here. First, you should never discharge al the way down below 20% if you can avoid it, because it definitely hurts LiIon cells, and will reduce their service life.

The only time you want to discharge LiIon batteries all the way down is if you suspect the calibration information is incorrect. In other words, if your laptop is reporting too much or too little run time left. In these cases, the power management software doesn't know exactly how much charge is currently in the battery, and so it can't report on how much run time you have left accurately. By draining it all the way down, and fully charging in one sitting, it re-learns how much juice you can extract, and how much a charge cycle puts back. On my ThinkPad, it will actually request a calibration cycle if it detects its out of whack, I don't know about other laptops though. I know there are Apple support docs on fully draining the battery and fully charging it to automatically calibrate the battery, but I wouldn't use it unless you are like 30% out on those estimated times. Doing it once a year on any kind of laptop isn't going to hurt that much though.

In 8 months of use on my Thinkpad, it has never asked for a calibration, by the way, after I performed an initial one when I bought it.

Second, when you charge a laptop fully, and it stops somewhere between 90-100%, that is often a feature again of the power management software. Putting the last 10% of capacity into a battery is also stressful for it, just like using the last 10%, so if the software detects that you frequently use your laptop plugged in, and don't frequently drain down to low levels, it will stop at less than 100% because you don't need to use that capacity, so there's no need to stress the battery further. Again, my ThinkPad handles this automatically, and you can override this behavior if you really need that additional 10-15 minutes of runtime, but it clearly states that doing so will decrease the lifespan of the battery.

In summary, any memory effect that LiIons have is less of a problem in their performance than the wear caused by deep discharge. And no matter how well you take care of your laptop battery, you have to consider it a disposable item, it will wear out, so just charge it up after you've used it on battery, don't drain it below 20% unless you really have to (like in a presentation, say), and enjoy.

Hope this helps, I've researched it a lot, both for my laptop, and for other uses like model aircraft, where the Lithium batteries cost big, big bucks, and are subjected to hard use running the planes.
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Old 08-31-2008, 09:23 PM   #10
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Another piece of info that might help....when a LiIon is rated, for say, 300 charges, they are talking about 300 full charges or cycles. A full cycle is 100% of the battery's rated energy taken out, and 100% put back in. So if you use 20% per day, and charge each night, it takes you 5 days to use up one cycle.

That's why you can charge a LiIon nightly, but still get years of service out of it, not 300 days worth.
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Old 08-31-2008, 09:39 PM   #11
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One more tidbit...the optimal charge level to store a LiIon battery at for long term storage is around 40%. If, for example, you weren't going to use a laptop battery for several months, charge (or discharge) it down to 40% and remove it from the laptop. This minimizes the "chemical stress" that the cell has containing its charge, while also ensuring that it doesn't self-discharge down to the dangerous low levels.
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