McCain a racist?

[FlamingLonghorn]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...18/MN32194.DTL

I never saw this before. I guess it was brought up in 2000 I don't know how I could have missed it. His excuse that he is only referring to his captors is weak. If he had been captured in Africa and used n-bombs there is no way he would even be considered for president.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Can you explain why you feel that explanation is weak? Saying it's weak with no reasoning is kind of strange.

[RougeUnderoos]

Maybe I'm naive, or just a honky who doesn't know what's what, but I always kind of figured the "G-word" was aimed at NVA soldiers. I've only ever heard it in movies about the Viet Nam war.

Kinda like saying "I hate the Nazis" doesn't mean you hate German people.

I get the feeling I might be just a little off on this though, with all those Asian people in the article saying it is offensive to them, and they ain't in the Viet Cong.

Either way, it's not very smart for a guy in his position to be testing the waters with that kind of talk.

[Displaced Flames fan]

That's always been my understanding 'Roos. I am sure it is used otherwise at times, but it is definitely a GI term for NVA. I had a Vietnam vet ex step father who explained that to me once. Also, we have an extremely large Vietnamese-American population in Wichita and I have never heard that word in public.

Whether using the term disqualifies one from office is up to each individual.

I just would like to know why his explanation is viewed as weak given what the guy went through.

[Ro]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

...what the guy went through.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sto...52-663,00.html

For the record, I'm a strong believer that the mere usage of a pejorative slur doesn't make you a bigot, racist, or sexist. Thinking a particular race or ethnic group is somehow inferior does, however.

In this case, I think it's quite clear that McCain's usage of the word "g--k," while perhaps a stupid political move, and also even unnecessary (couldn't he have just used "m-----f-----s?"), doesn't make him a racist. I think there must be hate and/or malicious intent behind the words for the speaker to be pronounced racist, and again, McCain seems quite adamant he is speaking only about his guards and not the entire Vietnamese race. While he's not showing a whole lot of tact, I don't think the voting public should (and they haven't, it seems) penalize him for this.

[Jayems]

argh.... had a long response and it timed me out and erased. ffs. I'll repost a recap.

[Jayems]

I think there's a lot more to know about why the word is used. Like mentioned, soldiers generally refer to their enemy using slang.

The term g**k was first used as a slang term used in the 1950s in the Korean was to identify N. Korean fighters. "Hanguk" is the Korean work meaning "Korea" from which the term is derived. It was later transferred to the Vietnam war in reference to the NVA — the force repelling the U.S.

As you know, McCain was held in a prison camp as a POW for over 5 years, where he was supposedly tortured. I think soldiers have a different meaning associated with the word. To me, the term is racist. To McCain, it maybe means something different. Combatant. Enemy. Captor. To pass off why he uses the word as 'weak' without looking into why McCain may use the word is, well, weak.

In WWII, Germans were referred to as Krauts. In Iraq, it's Hajji. In each war, the enemy is always referred to using slang, which usually is derived from a word that isn't racist to begin with. It is generally accepted as racist later, proabably due to people not associated with the war using the word as a blanket term for a race or country of people.

Kraut, usually seen as a derivative from popular German Sauerkraut, finely shredded cabbage.

Hajji, is from the word Hajj, the word for the pilgrimage to Meccaa, the fifth pillar of Islam.

I think if McCain used the n-bomb, he'd definitely be referring to an entire race of people, whereas I can see how an airman who fought in Vietnam can make claim that 'g**k' only represents combatants.

That's the most logical explanation I can gather as to why he feels it is acceptable to use the term.

I'd also hope that you'd hold the same values that if Obama dropped the n-bomb, he'd be held as equally responsible as McCain would should he do it.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Jayems

I'd also hope that you'd hold the same values that if Obama dropped the n-bomb, he'd be held as equally responsible as McCain would should he do it.

Jesse Jackson sure wasn't when he was caught using the word off air when talking about Obama. He apologized, nothing more. There's a huge double standard with racism. Some people truly believe that you have to be white to be racist.

I believe Obama to be of higher class than Jackson and doubt he would use that word. He has made some questionable generalizations regarding 'White man's greed' and it's effect on minorities. Is that racist?

Again, I think you have to be white to be labeled publicly as a racist.

Great post by the way, Jayems. There are other examples that further support your historical analysis of those slang combat terms.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Jesse Jackson sure wasn't when he was caught using the word off air when talking about Obama. He apologized, nothing more. There's a huge double standard with racism. Some people truly believe that you have to be white to be racist.

I believe Obama to be of higher class than Jackson and doubt he would use that word. He has made some questionable generalizations regarding 'White man's greed' and it's effect on minorities. Is that racist?

Again, I think you have to be white to be labeled publicly as a racist.

Great post by the way, Jayems. There are other examples that further support your historical analysis of those slang combat terms.

I don't know about that. The preacher at Obama's church was certainly called a racist.

The people who truly believe that you have to be white to be a racist are just as dumb as the people who are actual racists.

I don't know if Obama would "use the word" and I don't care. He's a black guy, he can say it if he wants. I'm not, I can't.

I used the word "honky" in an earlier post and I doubt anyone has a problem with that. I know it's not the same, but maybe it should be.

As for McCain, I don't begrudge the guy any anger he has towards the people that tortured him. I wouldn't mince any words when describing someone who had done something like that to me. I wouldn't care who is offended by what I have to say about them. I'm sure he has a lot worse things to say about those people that have nothing to do with 'race' at all.

[Hack&Lube]

It's always been my understanding (perhaps since I'm asian) that calling a Vietnamese g**k a is the same as calling a Chinese a Chink. I'm pretty sure that no asian cultures associate this word only with combantants (whereas the word Jap is in the same catagory but definetely carries WWII connotations). It is a racial and derogatory slur, even other asians use it against others in a bad manner. If you call an asian person that to his face, he will take it as a directly racial and not 'historical' slur referring to a combatant force.

It's sort of like the N-word if not as severe. It is definetely used to catagorize an entire race of people. So what if you know the etymologies of certain words? That does not make them harmless. That the N word may have come from a neutral background (Spanish and French words related to the latin Niger - black) does not excuse it's use in it's current context.

But I'll tell you this. As an asian, I have no problem with Mccain's usage of the word, knowing what he went through and his personal experience, I can understand why that word sticks with him.

Jayems - you cannot be certain of your etymologies, there are many explanations of the origins of the word. Generally it is usually a derogatory and racial slur used against people of south asian origin. I've read many explanations (including the one in the article claiming 19th century colonial origins not Korean related).

[flip]

Wait the word filter takes out guk (changed spelling on purpose otherwise it won't show) but not chink? WTF?

Given that Mccain possesses numerous traits that a person might associate with traits held by racist I surmise that it is entirely possible that John Mccain is a racist.

Not because of his comment but because he fits several demographics that may have a higher percentage of racist members.

In fact I wouldn't be surprised at all if John Mccain (and dozens of other politicians over the years) turned out to be racists.

On the other hand it is entirely likely that he isnt' and that just because he fits the mold of a sterotypical "old, rich, white, republican racist guy" that he's as friendly as Santa Claus.

Better?

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by flip

Wait the word filter takes out guk (changed spelling on purpose otherwise it won't show) but not chink? WTF?

And I'd be shocked to find out that a 70 year old man from the states and who is from the south and fought in vietnam isn't a racist.

You've got to be kidding me. That is one of the most ignorant posts in calgarypuck history. Congratulations.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

You've got to be kidding me. That is one of the most ignorant posts in calgarypuck history. Congratulations.

wow you're living in a dreamworld then.

A religious white rich man in his 70s from the south who fought in Nam and is in the republican party?

If there were ever such a thing as profiling for racists he fits basically every single category. So no, I wouldn't be surprised if he was racist.

[Hack&Lube]

The entire concept of racism in this PC world is a little ridiculous in my mind. There are many causes or motivations behind what is blanketed as racism.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by flip

wow you're living in a dreamworld then.

A white rich man in his 70s from the south who fought in Nam and is in the republican party?

If there were ever such a thing as profiling for racists he fits basically every single category. So no, I wouldn't be surprised if he was racist.

Sorry, that's a bit frightening to read buddy... if not absolutely ignorant, is that an Iron Cross in your avatar?

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by flip

wow you're living in a dreamworld then.

A religious white rich man in his 70s from the south who fought in Nam and is in the republican party?

If there were ever such a thing as profiling for racists he fits basically every single category. So no, I wouldn't be surprised if he was racist.

Why don't you give me your demographics so I can generalize about you.

Unreal.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Sorry, that's a bit frightening to read buddy... if not absolutely ignorant, is that an Iron Cross in your avatar?

That is awesome that somebody who called me ignorant just made one of the most ignorant post in history himself.

Read what the iron cross mean on wiki because it ain't NAZI. (neither is the swastika BTW).

And FLIP is a skate company.

and let me go over this again. If I was to name a prototypical racist here are triggers I would look for. Not saying all people that possess these traits are racist but there are definitely general themes:

Rich - check
white - check
old - check
from the south - check
religious - check
republican - check
socially conservative - check
fought against a minority in a war (ie not the germans) - check

[flip]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Why don't you give me your demographics so I can generalize about you.

Unreal.

wow. apparently you don't understand the concept of generalization and the difference between that and stereotypes.

I am not saying he MUST be a racist just that generally he possesses a lot of the traits that MOST people would associate with the LIKELIHOOD of being racist.

Sheesh. It's like the DNC in here tonight.

[browna]

Originally Posted by flip

wow you're living in a dreamworld then.

A religious white rich man in his 70s from the south who fought in Nam and is in the republican party?

If there were ever such a thing as profiling for racists he fits basically every single category. So no, I wouldn't be surprised if he was racist.

And you watch too many movies.

Given that gross generalization, its a minor miracle that there's not still slavery in the south with an aging population.

What about the atheist white middle class 80 year old man who fought in Korea and has no affilation wth either of the two parties?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by flip

Wait the word filter takes out guk (changed spelling on purpose otherwise it won't show) but not chink? WTF?

And I'd be shocked to find out that a 70 year old man from the states and who is from the south and fought in vietnam isn't a racist.

A chink in the armor... It's a real word.

It is pretty insulting to a lot of people to suggest that it would be shocking if they are not racists. I'm not a fan of McCain, but he's an educated, well-travelled and successful guy. Racism doesn't really fit for a guy like that. He's not an idiot.