Beijing Olympics Thread

[Ruttiger]

Originally Posted by looooob

Yes Phelps was superhuman also and in a way how can you argue with 8 medals, other than to say that Bolt can't really compete for 8 medals

Sure he could - add the 110m hurdles, the 400, the 400m hurdles, the 4x400m relay, and the long jump to the 100, 200, and 4x100 relay he's already doing and you've got 8 medals right there. Doesn't seem realistic to be that good in that many events? Welcome to the world of Michael Phelps.

[Eagle Eye]

^^ nope only in the relays were there 3-4 under the world record.
It doesnt really matter that there are more chances to get medals in Swimming (although one could argue that he could compete in other events) that going 8/8 will always be greater than going 2/2 or 3/3

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Ruttiger

Sure he could - add the 110m hurdles, the 400, the 400m hurdles, the 4x400m relay, and the long jump to the 100, 200, and 4x100 relay he's already doing and you've got 8 medals right there. Doesn't seem realistic to be that good in that many events? Welcome to the world of Michael Phelps.

yes I was sort of anticipating that reply, and I happen not to believe its quite equivalent, but I could be wrong

I do agree that a 100/200 M sprinter could realistically add one or two of the long jump or 400 m to their repetoire, but that would really be insane (especially the 400 which apparently Bolt is aiming towards)

again I don't have the same understanding of swimming that I do of track so I guess I don't know for sure. I do believe Spitz (also a superhuman freak of course) entered and won almost the same amount of races, whereas I don't think anyone in track (at least in the modern era) has come close to entering the palette of races you suggest

anyways I'm not meaning to take anything away from Phelps, and I am prepared to concede he's the athlete of the olympics, but I think a fair case can be made for Bolt too

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by JayP

Give Bolt a chance to run backwards and skip down the track and he sweeps the medals too.

Lol, I like this statement. So true!

[transplant99]

but the 100 M champion is often the marquee player of the games, and Bolt anhiliated that record without trying

Dont disagree....but he has set 2 world records...anihalated them as you say...but so did Phelps....7 times. (not anihalted all of them but set em)

Phelps' world records are meaningless.

OK then....if you say so. I am going to guess the 20+ Million dollar endorsements he receives from corporations will counter that argument somewhat though. And the fact is...he already had some of those WR's (32 of them in fact)long before he switched to these suits.

Give Bolt a chance to run backwards and skip down the track and he sweeps the medals too.

He already has swept them...no?

Not anti-US - it is anti-holycrap they give out way too many medals in swimming.

I understand this sentiment...but I sure dont agree with it.

Different disciplines and distances...all of them. Doing the freestyle is so far different from doing the butterfly its hardly the same sport other than being done in water.

Im not sure why people think the pool is overloaded to help such a swimmer. Cant ANY swimmer from ANY nation do the same thing? Would we be saying the same thing if it was a Canadian breaking records left, right, and center?

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by troutman

Not anti-US - it is anti-holycrap they give out way too many medals in swimming.

No kidding. Bolt would have 8 medals too if track gave out medals for 50 metres, 150 metres, running backwards, sidestepping, 4 X 200 relay.....

Phelps won in a pool that broke world records in almost every race. Not just his. Bolt also set the world record running into a head wind while obliterating his opponents. Phelps would have to equal that in a wave pool.

Also too Bolt only started to run the 100 metres seriously this year. Phelps has been training his strokes and his distances for at least 7-8 year. That would be like Phelps taking on the breaststroke or the 1500 and winning gold in those.

Phelps did an awesome job in swimming and is the greatest swimmer ever. But he is not the main story of Beijing. You can't really blame Americans for thinking Phelps is God. That NBC propaganda machine is overwhelming.

[GirlySports]

There needs to be a 100m race-walking dash.

[Eagle Eye]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Phelps did an awesome job in swimming and is the greatest swimmer ever. But he is not the main story of Beijing. You can't really blame Americans for thinking Phelps is God. That NBC propaganda machine is overwhelming.

But he is/was the main story of the olympics, I bet just as many networks and publications covered his story as Bolt has (Bolt is just more fresh as it happened yesterday).

I love how everyone compares multiple swim styles to 'Side stepping' or walking backwards, and any way who is to say that if those events even existed that he could win them (Phelps proved that he could).

As other posters mentioned track has multiple events that take different skills as swimming has, to me Phelps proved that he can win multiple styles of events.

[Eagle Eye]

ooops

[JayP]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Different disciplines and distances...all of them. Doing the freestyle is so far different from doing the butterfly its hardly the same sport other than being done in water.

That's why there's plenty of swimmers who are world class in several (or all) disciplines, right?

Im not sure why people think the pool is overloaded to help such a swimmer. Cant ANY swimmer from ANY nation do the same thing? Would we be saying the same thing if it was a Canadian breaking records left, right, and center?[/quote]

Well, Mark Spitz basically did the same thing 36 years ago so it's not as if this is unprecedented.

It's funny when people suggest that Bolt should run the hurdles, long jump, etc. and think it's the same thing as Phelps. It's a lot different in swimming where there's tons of guys out there who are able to do all that at a high level.

[mmanzz]

Originally Posted by Eagle Eye

But he is/was the main story of the olympics, I bet just as many networks and publications covered his story as Bolt has (Bolt is just more fresh as it happened yesterday).

I love how everyone compares multiple swim styles to 'Side stepping' or walking backwards, and any way who is to say that if those events even existed that he could win them (Phelps proved that he could).

As other posters mentioned track has multiple events that take different skills as swimming has, to me Phelps proved that he can win multiple styles of events.

I agree, there seems like there are a lot of people on this board who seem to minimizing and trashing Phelps. The fact is you have to go back to Mark Spitz in 1972 to see anything comparable. He is appears to be in his sport, someone who is at the Gretzky, Pele, Jordan, Tiger Woods level. Simply an extraordinary and exceptional athlete that rarely comes along, a pleasure to watch that goes beyond the sport!

Usain Bolt, although certainly outstanding and heading that way, will have to establish some sort of longevity to get to that level.

[The Goon]

Obviously there needs to be a Phelps-Bolt race on a neutral surface (neither water nor land)...I'm thinking they need to meet on American Gladiators' Eliminator.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by mmanzz

I agree, there seems like there are a lot of people on this board who seem to minimizing and trashing Phelps. The fact is you have to go back to Mark Spitz in 1972 to see anything comparable. .

well to be fair to Bolt you still have to go back 24 years (I think) to find a guy who did the 100/200 double and not sure if its ever been done with both as world records. the longevity statement I suppose is fair, but this is a nice coming out party for a guy that we might look back on as one of the greatest sprinters ever. the fact he broke the 100 m record while jogging for 30 metres suggests we might have witnessed a pele/jordan/tiger there too, and he appears to have the requisite charisma

lets hope neither guy has a positive drug test sully before their careers end

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Eagle Eye

As other posters mentioned track has multiple events that take different skills as swimming has, to me Phelps proved that he can win multiple styles of events.

Actually only 2 styles, blown up into 6 different events. Phelps is only world dominate in freestyle and butterfly. The only reason why he won the medley's is because he can build up such a big lead to compensate for his backstroke and breast stroke.

Phelps isn't the fastest swimmer in the world and he he doesn't have the most endurance.

Well what we arguing about is the biggest story out of the Beijing games. I think 5 years down the road. People will remember the 9.69 and the 19.30 at lot more then what Phelps did in the pool. I'm having trouble remembering what events Phelps won already.

Ooooo looks like the silver medalist from the Dutch antilles in the 200metres has also been disqualified. Silver to Crawford and bronze to dix now.

[Bobblehead]

I'm not sure people are thrashing Phelps.

People just seem to be debating if Phelps is the story of the games (vs Bolt) let alone if he is the greatest Olympian (as has been mentioned in many media sources).

And it all seems to come down to the question of is it possible for non-swimmers to compete at a competitive level in as many different events as Phelps?

Just because some people think yes, and other people say no does not mean Phelps is being trashed, more that people are trying to determine where he fits into the pantheon of Olympic results.

[fredr123]

Men's swimming events at this year's Olympics: 17

• 100m backstroke Men
• 100m breaststroke Men
• 100m butterfly Men
• 100m freestyle Men
• 1500m freestyle Men
• 200m backstroke Men
• 200m breaststroke Men
• 200m butterfly Men
• 200m freestyle Men
• 200m individual medley Men
• 400m freestyle Men
• 400m individual medley Men
• 4x100m freestyle relay Men
• 4x100m medley relay Men
• 4x200m freestyle relay Men
• 50m freestyle Men
• marathon 10km Men

Men's athletics events at this year's Olympics: 24

• 10000m Men
• triple jump Men
• 100m Men
• 110m hurdles Men
• 1500m Men
• 200m Men
• 20km walk Men
• 3000m steeplechase Men
• 400m Men
• 400m hurdles Men
• 4x100m relay Men
• 4x400m relay Men
• 5000m Men
• 50km walk Men
• 800m Men
• decathlon Men
• discus throw Men
• hammer throw Men
• high jump Men
• javelin throw Men
• long jump Men
• marathon Men
• pole vault Men
• shot put Men

In swimming, you can break the events down by stroke. There's your freestyle, your breaststroke, your back stroke and your butterfly. There is also a total of three relay races where you depend on teammates. Then there are the various distances (50M, 100M, 400M, 1500M, 10KM). That leaves 14 individual events.

In athletics (that title kind of bugs me a bit; don't most events at the Olympics involve athletics?), there are your basic running events and then everything else. To the latter category you can add the jumping events, the pole vault, the javelin/hammer/shot put/discus throws, and the decathlon. There are also two relay events. That leaves 12 individual running events if you include the walking events, the hurdles and the steeplechase.

To me, it seems there would be a greater difference in skill set for Usain Bolt to be competitive in running events and the walking/hurdles/steeplechase than there would be for Michael Phelps to be competitive in four different strokes at various distances. Note that in this year's Olympics, Phelps competed in only 5 individual events (400M medley, 200M freestyle, 200M butterfly, 200M medley and 100M butterfly).

[looooob]

Originally Posted by The Goon

Obviously there needs to be a Phelps-Bolt race on a neutral surface (neither water nor land)...I'm thinking they need to meet on American Gladiators' Eliminator.

can we work in the laser sharks?

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Actually only 2 styles, blown up into 6 different events. Phelps is only world dominate in freestyle and butterfly. The only reason why he won the medley's is because he can build up such a big lead to compensate for his backstroke and breast stroke.

Phelps isn't the fastest swimmer in the world and he he doesn't have the most endurance.

Well what we arguing about is the biggest story out of the Beijing games. I think 5 years down the road. People will remember the 9.69 and the 19.30 at lot more then what Phelps did in the pool. I'm having trouble remembering what events Phelps won already.

Ooooo looks like the silver medalist from the Dutch antilles in the 200metres has also been disqualified. Silver to Crawford and bronze to dix now.

I don't agree. People have been talking about Mark Spitz for decades, Phelps will be remembered the same way. How many of the previous 100/200 sprint winner/record holders can you recall, let alone from 1972?

[JayP]

Originally Posted by mmanzz

I agree, there seems like there are a lot of people on this board who seem to minimizing and trashing Phelps. The fact is you have to go back to Mark Spitz in 1972 to see anything comparable. He is appears to be in his sport, someone who is at the Gretzky, Pele, Jordan, Tiger Woods level. Simply an extraordinary and exceptional athlete that rarely comes along, a pleasure to watch that goes beyond the sport!

Usain Bolt, although certainly outstanding and heading that way, will have to establish some sort of longevity to get to that level.

No one is trashing Phelps. Most are just arguing that you can't simply look at the medal count and claim he's the greatest Olympian ever. It's quite easy to see that it's a lot easier to rack up medals in swimming than it is in most other events (except maybe gymnastics).

You have to go back to 1984 to find the last man to win both the 100m and 200m races at the Olympics.

No man has ever broken the world record in both at the same Olympics.

It's safe to say Bolt is at that level.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by The Goon

Obviously there needs to be a Phelps-Bolt race on a neutral surface (neither water nor land)...I'm thinking they need to meet on American Gladiators' Eliminator.

haha. How about the triathlon? Except the bikes they will be on will be tricycles. and they aren't allowed to wear skin tight suits.