Beijing Opening Ceremonies Included Digital Fireworks, Lip Syncs

[Locke]

Originally Posted by jammies

You must have the Olympics confused with some other sporting event. It hasn't been about celebrating amateur sport for a few decades now.

It is now a ersatz war game where the "winning" country is the one that gets the most medals, and where the host country spends untold billions of dollars trying to outdo the previous host country in gaudy show business numbers that would fit in perfectly in Las Vegas. It has also been politicized since the West boycotted Moscow in 1980 and the Soviet Bloc boycotted LA in 1984.

You might as well worry about the virginity of a crack ho as the sanctity of the Olympics.

I'm not going to delve into this too much, but I once heard that the Calgary 88 Olympics was the last event that actually turned a profit.

Isnt Montreal still paying for their Olympics?

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'm not going to delve into this too much, but I once heard that the Calgary 88 Olympics was the last event that actually turned a profit.

Isnt Montreal still paying for their Olympics?

The stadium was finally paid off in December 2006. And it, of course, has no tenants since the Expos left town and the Alouettes starting playing at McGill.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by jammies

Agreed. I haven't watched these Olympics and I have no intention of watching. It's a sickening propaganda display put upon by one of the world's worst regimes, and the sad thing is, most people are going along with it.

Until the Chinese gov't apologizes for Mao, for Tianamen Square, for Tibet, and for the many other crimes they are guilty of, any so-called "progress" they are making towards freedom is a sham. It doesn't surprise me at all that they "enhanced" the opening ceremonies with special effects - the whole image of the place is nothing more than special effects to begin with.

Have you actually ever been there?

USSR, Nazi Germany... c'mon... seriously, we're not in the cold war anymore. I guess you should boycott London 2012 until they apologize for Ireland, the drugs thing to China and pickpocketing me 8 years ago.

[sadora]

Originally Posted by vodafone_b

what is wrong with lip-synching? Every one around the world does it

you know it's funny, I keep waiting for the day that some random foreign person will have a call to arms about coming to the greatest outdoor show on earth to see a fully lip synched show. oh, the tragedy.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Have you actually ever been there?

USSR, Nazi Germany... c'mon... seriously, we're not in the cold war anymore. I guess you should boycott London 2012 until they apologize for Ireland, the drugs thing to China and pickpocketing me 8 years ago.

Haven't I seen this argument before?

There is NO equivalency between the democratic government of the UK and the totalitarian government of China. One is a democracy based on the rule of law, and the other is a dictatorship based on the extralegal primacy of the Party. One actually HAS apologized for wrongs committed in the past (Blair apologized to the Irish for the potato famine back in the 1800's, for one example), and the other just keeps on committing MORE atrocities. One allows freedom of expression, and the other has a huge firewall keeping the "bad" internet out, and imprisons people that dare speak out against its policies. Trying to link the two as if they are - in any way - similar is wrong, wrong, wrong.

What is the point of having freedom in the West if we don't demand it for people in other countries? Do people in Shanghai not deserve the same rights I have here in Canada? Should we really be more concerned with how much money the Chinese can save Walmart than the political and religious prisoners who are routinely beaten and drugged in its jails? Doesn't it matter that Mao, one of last century's most vile killers along with Hitler and Stalin, is still revered as the "Great Helmsman" by his successors, and doesn't it tell you quite a lot about their true nature that this is so?

Damn right I haven't been there - I would undoubtedly get deported pretty quick. Do you really think it would make a difference if I did - did you get to go on the Falun Gong reeducation centre tour while *you* were there? Did you wear your "Free Tibet" t-shirt and pose with the local secret policeman for pictures? Did you take a trip through Xinjiang and get to share a railway car with some "dissidents" on their way to execution?

And to make it clear, I have no problem with China or the Chinese people, it is their government which is reprehensible and should be opposed at every turn. The Communist takeover in 1949 there was as big a tragedy as WWII and the original Russian revolution, and just because they put on a happy smiling face for the world doesn't change the fact they are an illegitimate gang of corrupt thugs.

[Locke]

Geez Jammies, havent you heard? Its the People's Democratic Republic of China these days ....

[driveway]

Boycotting or protesting the Olympics because you disagree with China's policies is absurd, ridiculous and - to reference another thread - totally ######ed unless you are also willing to go without products 'made in China' in your own life.

If you are too lazy to flip over a product and check to see where it was made, shut the dang heck up about the Olympics.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by jammies

What is the point of having freedom in the West if we don't demand it for people in other countries? .

Why are you demanding what other people in other countries want? How do you know the majority of them even want it?

Funny that when I was in the former Yugoslavia, there were alot of people that wanted to go back to their communist ways under Tito.

Life in China isn't as bad as you think. Seriously, just ask anyone here on CP that actually lives in China and have for the past couple years. Its sort of annoying to see people think that the only way to live is a Western democracy, that everything else is wrong and must be changed. Talk about closed minded.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Why are you demanding what other people in other countries want? How do you know the majority of them even want it?

Funny that when I was in the former Yugoslavia, there were alot of people that wanted to go back to their communist ways under Tito.

Life in China isn't as bad as you think. Seriously, just ask anyone here on CP that actually lives in China and have for the past couple years. Its sort of annoying to see people think that the only way to live is a Western democracy, that everything else is wrong and must be changed. Talk about closed minded.

Not to mention China is dramatically changing a lot of their old ways due to the modernization and capitalism that is flourishing there.

Its not perfect, but its the best way to 'convert' them more to western style of rule, etc..

Or would maybe a land war against 1.3 billion be more fun

I wonder do you get this upset when your friends goto Cuba for vacation?

[Phanuthier]

Thor - its funny how the olympics, since the 2001 announcement, has changed China. Improved living conditions all around, improved economy, improved environmental standards (ty shatting btw, but whatev) and so on. This push for the Olympics in 2008 have modernized China in so many ways, and opening the doors to the world is a huge opportunity and experience to us in the western world, its unbelievable that some people here decide to plug their ears and close their eyes to anything thats not 'western'

I went to China 10 years ago and 6 months ago, and I have some family and friends that are there or have moved there recently, and the change is unbelievable. Its like a whole new country, from 3rd world to 1st world in less than a decade.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Why are you demanding what other people in other countries want? How do you know the majority of them even want it?

How do you know they don't want it? Were those students in Tianamen asking for democracy, or was that the "running dogs of capitalism and the forces of reaction staging anti-democratic protests?" How do you know that if dissidents weren't locked up and killed, that they wouldn't gather popular support? As I recall, people said the same thing about the Soviets - that the majority of the population liked the "strong hand" of the Party. Yet, somehow, once the opportunity arose, that same Party went from absolute rule to non-existence inside of 3 years.

Further, human rights are not something one needs to "want" and ask for; they should be inalienable and not subject to the whims of government. Morality is not some kind of poll - just because something is popular or the opinion of the majority, does not make it right.

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Funny that when I was in the former Yugoslavia, there were alot of people that wanted to go back to their communist ways under Tito.

You'll always have people that prefer security to freedom. I'm sure there are people here in Canada who would like to live in a police state where they could be "safe"; doesn't mean we should indulge them in their lunacy.

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Life in China isn't as bad as you think. Seriously, just ask anyone here on CP that actually lives in China and have for the past couple years. Its sort of annoying to see people think that the only way to live is a Western democracy, that everything else is wrong and must be changed. Talk about closed minded.

So what you are saying is that a Western totalitarianism is better than a Western democracy? You do understand that Marxism and its child Communism are European ideologies, and not something dreamed up in China? And that the whole system was imposed from above by Mao, by military force at first, and then by indoctrination and terror since? And are you seriously claiming that it is "close minded" to prefer democracy to communism?

Does it make me close minded to prefer free speech to censorship? Freedom to assemble over tanks in the streets? Multi-party elections to Party appointments? Rule of law over the arbitrary power of Communist bureaucrats? These ideas are not open-minded, they are expressions of the primacy of the State over the individual and the fanatic over the free man - to reject them is no more close-minded than rejecting pain in favour of pleasure.

And how is it that the Chinese have all these freedoms in Taiwan (for the most part), and somehow they manage to retain their culture and far outstrip the mainland in per capita wealth? How do you explain that, if Communism is such a boon and clear benefit to the Chinese people?

Originally Posted by Thor

I wonder do you get this upset when your friends goto Cuba for vacation?

I don't like it, no, and I would never vacation there. I refused to go there for work once (installing routers into a hotel there) and everyone thought I was crazy - beaches in Cuba in January, or Calgary?

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by jammies

Everything jammies said

+100000000

[moon]

Originally Posted by vodafone_b

What is so different than Britney or Madonna or Ashley Simpson lipsyncing on stage?

The media didn't say anything about the Simpson lipsynching. She sure got off scott free on that one.

Originally Posted by vodafone_b

Yes. I am sure all the western countries are perfect, where they have done nothing wrong in the course of history. Yes, they are perfect unlike China.

Well in that case good ahead China continue to slaughter millions of innocents.

The West isn't perfect so no need to worry about what other places do.

I would say the media has been pretty embarrassing in the way they have been kissing up to China during these Olympics. Not surprising but embarrassing none-the-less.

[The Yen Man]

Yes, because the Western way is always the best, and anything else is quote "lunacy".

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by jammies

You must have the Olympics confused with some other sporting event. It hasn't been about celebrating amateur sport for a few decades now.

I still do (for what it's worth). I just watch the Olympics for all the countries and the fun of sport. The venue doesn't really matter to me. They could be held in Russia, China, Zimbabwe, Canada, Mars... I just like everyone getting together every couple of years.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

An old piece that explains the selection criteria for adult female hostesses.

Young Chinese women whose "eye length is three-tenths of the face" and who have leveled shoulders and curvaceous thighs now have a competitive edge in joining the Olympic Games in August....

.......It also set strict standards on facial features, including the ratio between the "width of the nose and the length of the face", "width of the mouth and width between the pupils", Shanghai's Xinmin Evening News reported.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/olympic...nt_6459345.htm

Just a teeny bit picky. Wonder how a few beers affects this?

[doozwimp]

I read an article in the financial post that estimated China's spending on the Olympics to be between 35 and 43 billion dollars... Talk about propaganda dollars. For a country that has other social issues to deal with that amount is disgusting.

I'll look for the article tomorrow.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Yes, because the Western way is always the best, and anything else is quote "lunacy".

yup

But hey, what do the people currently live in China know, what do the people who lived in China previously know, what do I know even though I have family and friends in China right know.

Is it great, no. jammies clearly has no idea wtf China is like. Its like talking to a wall sometimes. Completely ignores first hand opinions and refuses to accept Cuba (been there, 2 years ago), stories from more hten a few in former Yugaslavia (been there, 2 months ago), stories from China (been there, many times)...

Everything but the Western way is lunacy

(jammies I generally like you as a poster, especially on hockey where I think you are an elite poster on this board. But when it comes to this topic in particular, I find you to be too stubborn to view the potential that the other side might have a valid point)

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Funny that when I was in the former Yugoslavia, there were alot of people that wanted to go back to their communist ways under Tito.

Of course there are people that want to go back to their communist ways. Former member of the communist party/secret police/bureacracy who directly benefited from the Tito dictatoriship. Really surprising...

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Of course there are people that want to go back to their communist ways. Former member of the communist party/secret police/bureacracy who directly benefited from the Tito dictatoriship. Really surprising...

They weren't secret police or former bureacrats - pretty sure they don't fit your description

Slovenia - a hotel and campground owner who was 47, two 25 year old white water kayaking guides, owner/manager of a hostel
Croatia - a 19 year old labourer, a mid-50s lady who rents out her room to visiters
Bosnia - 17 year old bartender, mid-40s hostel manager
Serbia - mid-20s girl (didn't get occupation)