I disagree. I wouldn't want to have to hear a protest about my deceased family members near by own soil.
Keep them out of the country.
Agreed. I've been to a funeral with a discrete police presence, and that was disconcerting enough. To have multiple protests around me as I was trying to grieve a lost relative?
They have no right to enter Canada. They can only be here with our permission. Deny them, problem solved.
First of all, how do you know you're gay or not if you're not sexually active?
What, you never had a dry spell?
As for all the rest of it, if Jesus is so vague about it, why are Christians always going on about homosexuality and how it's such a sin and bad and all that? And I'm not just talking loons like WBC but mainstream Christianity -- Catholics, evangelicals, Focus On The Family types, Mormons, Baptists, you name it. Christian churches on the whole don't dig the gay. Why?
Azure, you do know that every Christian sect says, "We are the proper Christians, not them. They are the ones giving all Christians a bad name." Or "They are interpreting the bible wrong, we are doing it right."
The bible is not a good moral guide because you have to pick and choose what to follow and what to ignore. This goes for the new testament too.
My problem with 'gay' priests is that their condition is often created because they're not ALLOWED to be sexually active. Which, IMO is WRONG. I can't think of the passage right now, but I do believe either Jesus or Paul said something about priests/pastors whatever, being married before they're ever put into that position.
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As for all the rest of it, if Jesus is so vague about it, why are Christians always going on about homosexuality and how it's such a sin and bad and all that? And I'm not just talking loons like WBC but mainstream Christianity -- Catholics, evangelicals, Focus On The Family types, Mormons, Baptists, you name it. Christian churches on the whole don't dig the gay. Why?
I don't think its quite as cut and dried as you make it seem. Lots of mainstream churches don't condemn or judge people because they're gay. I think a small portion does, yes....but they tend to make the most noise too.
Azure, you do know that every Christian sect says, "We are the proper Christians, not them. They are the ones giving all Christians a bad name." Or "They are interpreting the bible wrong, we are doing it right."
No, they're misinterpreting their own belief system wrongly. Go look on their website what 'teachings' they follow.
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The bible is not a good moral guide because you have to pick and choose what to follow and what to ignore. This goes for the new testament too.
My problem with 'gay' priests is that their condition is often created because they're not ALLOWED to be sexually active. Which, IMO is WRONG. I can't think of the passage right now, but I do believe either Jesus or Paul said something about priests/pastors whatever, being married before they're ever put into that position.
I don't think its quite as cut and dried as you make it seem. Lots of mainstream churches don't condemn or judge people because they're gay. I think a small portion does, yes....but they tend to make the most noise too.
I thought the bigger problem with priests was that they had a bunch of pedophiles causing problems, and not a 'gay' thing.
Anyway, there may be some Christian sects out there who don't take any issue with sexual orientation. The big ones do though. And the fundamentalists do. I'm sure the list of "Churches who aren't against homosexuality" is a lot shorter than the list of those who are.
I thought the bigger problem with priests was that they had a bunch of pedophiles causing problems, and not a 'gay' thing.
Anyway, there may be some Christian sects out there who don't take any issue with sexual orientation. The big ones do though. And the fundamentalists do. I'm sure the list of "Churches who aren't against homosexuality" is a lot shorter than the list of those who are.
I'm confused why the issue of sexual orientation is even part of this discussion or how it's relevant?
Christians are taught to "love the sinner, hate the sin"...Most sins are defined in the Old Testament although Jesus says that marriage is supposed to be between a man and a woman... What exactly is the point to your argument?
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Originally Posted by Grimbl420
I can wash my penis without taking my pants off.
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Originally Posted by Moneyhands23
If edmonton wins the cup in the next decade I will buy everyone on CP a bottle of vodka.
I'm confused why the issue of sexual orientation is even part of this discussion or how it's relevant?
Christians are taught to "love the sinner, hate the sin"...Most sins are defined in the Old Testament although Jesus says that marriage is supposed to be between a man and a woman... What exactly is the point to your argument?
It's the WBC we're talking about here. They do what they do because they see us as tolerant of homosexuality and going to the fires of hell for it. If we were talking about BLT's, would you ask why the subject of bacon is relevant?
The point, I guess, was that someone suggested that while these people are nuts, it's not a stretch to say they got their ideas from the bible.
Someone who knows a little more about it than I do said it came from the Old Testament, and not Jesus, and the Old Testament isn't the book Christians are supposed to follow. Fair enough.
But still, intolerance of homosexuality is pretty clear cut in mainstream Christianity.
It's the WBC we're talking about here. They do what they do because they see us as tolerant of homosexuality and going to the fires of hell for it. If we were talking about BLT's, would you ask why the subject of bacon is relevant?
The point, I guess, was that someone suggested that while these people are nuts, it's not a stretch to say they got their ideas from the bible.
Someone who knows a little more about it than I do said it came from the Old Testament, and not Jesus, and the Old Testament isn't the book Christians are supposed to follow. Fair enough.
But still, intolerance of homosexuality is pretty clear cut in mainstream Christianity.
Pardon me, I should rephrase then. I don't see why you're bringing in other groups beliefs about homosexuality into this.
You may be intolerant of stupid drivers, but that doesn't mean you're going to road rage on them all....
My point is this: According to the Old Testament, yes, homosexuality is a sin. According to the New Testament, we are told not to judge others, to love the sinner, etc. So whether or not we believe that homosexuality is a sin, it should not reflect in our dealings with them, NOR should we be 'preaching' to them.
To say that these people are Christians is a large stretch of the imagination as they do not follow Christ's teachings. To label all Christians because of them is just as ignorant.
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Originally Posted by Grimbl420
I can wash my penis without taking my pants off.
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Originally Posted by Moneyhands23
If edmonton wins the cup in the next decade I will buy everyone on CP a bottle of vodka.
What did he mean by this? The Greek word for "fulfill" is plerosai. According to Greek scholars, the nuance and meaning of this word is difficult to express in English, and several possibilities have been offered. These are summarized by four options:
1. Jesus came to accomplish or obey the Holy Scriptures,
2. to bring out the full meaning of the Holy Scriptures,
3. to bring those Scriptures to their intended completion,
4. to emphasize that the Scriptures point to him as Messiah and are fulfilled in his salvation work.
After reviewing several ways of looking at the word "fulfill," the Expositor’s Commentary on Matthew concluded by saying: "The best interpretation of these difficult verses says that Jesus fulfills the Law and the Prophets in that they point to him, and he is their fulfillment. The antithesis is not between ‘abolish’ and ‘keep’ but between ‘abolish’ and ‘fulfill’" (page 143).
Oh come on, it's pretty darn clear here (from King James):
"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Even the article you linked to, it seemed like "Jesus couldn't have meant that we had to follow all 613 laws of the Old Testament. That would just be too darn hard."
Oh come on, it's pretty darn clear here (from King James):
"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Even the article you linked to, it seemed like "Jesus couldn't have meant that we had to follow all 613 laws of the Old Testament. That would just be too darn hard."
And they're all translations of translations of a dead language.
So which is it? Are we to judge not, or take an eye for an eye? It cannot be both...
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Originally Posted by Grimbl420
I can wash my penis without taking my pants off.
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Originally Posted by Moneyhands23
If edmonton wins the cup in the next decade I will buy everyone on CP a bottle of vodka.
Is there some reason the Canadian government couldn't stop these guys from entering Canada that anyone knows of.
Just put them on a terror watch list and tell them they expect their american friends to help out if they expect the same back.
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Don't insult other members; even if they are Canuck fans.
Is there some reason the Canadian government couldn't stop these guys from entering Canada that anyone knows of.
Just put them on a terror watch list and tell them they expect their american friends to help out if they expect the same back.
They have already. Customs basically said that since they have such a well documented purpose of travel that consists entirely of disturbing public order that they're not to be allowed over the border.
They might not all get caught at the border though.
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And they're all translations of translations of a dead language. So which is it? Are we to judge not, or take an eye for an eye? It cannot be both...
It can't be both so long as you believe the Bible to be the perfect word of God, which by your first sentence you do not believe to be true. A true believer would have said that God would not let the old Hebrew texts be mistranslated.
If you believe the Bible to be man-made and thus riddled with errors, then certainly it can be a smattering of contradictions. Which it most certainly is.
Given these contradictions, if you pick and choose the passages you want and ignore the rest, then certainly you can end up where the Phelps family is. But everything they preach is in there somewhere.
