2008 NFL Training Camp and Preseason Thread.

[Displaced Flames fan]

It seems the $20M offer the Packers have made Favre has been misrepresented. It is actually part of a longterm marketing deal the two have been discussing for sometime. Obviously Favre and the Packers are synonymous and will remain so no matter what happens, so there was this licensing deal for the two. This is what the offer was and this explains why Favre was considering it and not punching Ted Thompson in the face. Has nothing to do with his retiring or playing.

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/packers/298859

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Years of indecision? I remember one summer of indecision. One. And they drafted Rodgers long before that....and likely only because he fell in their lap.

Moon, I think you've got a jaded view of the situation.

If the Packers want to put the best team on the field they will make Favre their starter. If they want to move on they should release him or trade him.

This $20M offer is an insult, and I don't care if somebody has reported he was leaning toward it. ESPN said within the last couple of hours that he's leaning toward reporting as soon as Goodell reinstates him which will be Monday. They have so much attention on this situation they can't even get their stories straight.

They drafted Rodgers because they had no idea what Brett was going to do that offseason, every year at the end of the year there is a great deal of indecision ... anyway, if wants to change his mind, that's his right, I'm just saying its awfully hard for the team to manage. And to top it all off, after retiring, and still having his rights held by GB, he spends the offseason on the phone with the Minnesota coaching staff. This guy has a free pass with the public to do whatever he wants. Any other player and that report would not just slide the way it has.

Even now, that Adam Schefter guy reports that Goodell is holding out on approval of the reinstatement until Brett says its ok to approve.

Now I'm surprised at how poorly GB has handled this, I think you just start him, and worry about the consequences after the year is over. I can only guess they think Rodgers gives them the best chance to win ... otherwise I can't imagine why they are doing what they are doing.

And I don't understand why the 20M is an insult? Someone can insult me with that kind of offer any day they'd like.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

They drafted Rodgers because they had no idea what Brett was going to do that offseason, every year at the end of the year there is a great deal of indecision ... anyway, if wants to change his mind, that's his right, I'm just saying its awfully hard for the team to manage. And to top it all off, after retiring, and still having his rights held by GB, he spends the offseason on the phone with the Minnesota coaching staff. This guy has a free pass with the public to do whatever he wants. Any other player and that report would not just slide the way it has.

Even now, that Adam Schefter guy reports that Goodell is holding out on approval of the reinstatement until Brett says its ok to approve.

Now I'm surprised at how poorly GB has handled this, I think you just start him, and worry about the consequences after the year is over. I can only guess they think Rodgers gives them the best chance to win ... otherwise I can't imagine why they are doing what they are doing.

And I don't understand why the 20M is an insult? Someone can insult me with that kind of offer any day they'd like.

So they planned on grabbing Rodgers to start as a rookie because they thought Brett MIGHT retire? Come on man, that doesn't make any sense for a few reasons.

1. Rodgers was expected to go WAY higher. He fell to them.
2. There are other ways to address positional depth, especially depth that important, than throught the draft.
3. Important players retire every single year and teams don't usually say, darn I wish he would've given us notice sooner.


As for the $20M being an insult, if it had been an offer to stay retired (which it clearly isn't) you are insinuating that the player cares more about money than playing football. That's clearly not the case with Favre who stayed in Green Bay when he, without a doubt, could've gone somewhere for who knows how much money as a free agent. He elected to stay because he liked it there. Sure, he was paid well, but players who are in the game for money don't avoid free agency.

[transplant99]

They drafted Rodgers because they had no idea what Brett was going to do that offseason, every year at the end of the year there is a great deal of indecision ...

Simply untrue.

He fell from a possible 1st overall by SF (who instead took Smith) to 24th in the 1st rd. The team made a decision to take the best player available rather than draft, at that point, for need. This bares out when you look at the rest of their picks that year... 2 WR, 2 OL and then 6 defensive players which is where the rebuild was most needed beyond getting Favre some help at WR.

here is a mock draft from that year. Rodgers 1st and GB picking up a S.

http://football.about.com/od/morenfl...a/aa032605.htm

mel kiper that year had Rodgers going 3rd overall to cleveland as well.

anyway, if wants to change his mind, that's his right, I'm just saying its awfully hard for the team to manage.

the team was going to be similar either way. Rodgers and Favre are not all that different as QB's that gameplans on offense would have to be altered so significantly. Why do so many continue to ignore the fact that Favre told them he was not ready to decide in early march, yet the Thompson FORCED him to decide one way or the other. He simply did not know at that point so he said "OK I will retire since I cant say for sure i will be back" (paraphrased obviously)

The ONLY reason for Thompson to do so was he wanted to show he was the boss and his massive ego wouldn't allow for anyone to get in the way of "his way" mentality.

And to top it all off, after retiring, and still having his rights held by GB, he spends the offseason on the phone with the Minnesota coaching staff.

He and Childress have been friends for over a decade...are friends not allowed to talk with one another in the off season anymore? Come on. I have no doubt that Favre asked Childress if he would be welcome in Minnesota if GB didn't give him his job back...but so what? Im actually surprised MORE clubs didn't inquire about Favre to TT. The thing is BF wanted to come back with GB and GB only, but when informed he wasn't wanted (still amazingly stupid IMO) he had to see where else he could find a job...so he talked to his friends around the league.

Several of the talking heads on the idiot box have stated that asking a player to make such a decision that soon after a season is ridiculous. Players need ime to re-energize, clear their minds and heal up. Then, and only then, is that guy likely to make the right decision for him. And you especially do so when it comes to one of the best players to ever play the game at the most important position. the whole thing is absolutely mind-boggling.

This guy has a free pass with the public to do whatever he wants. Any other player and that report would not just slide the way it has.

Slide? Its being investigated as tampering by the freaking NFL...how is that "sliding"??

Now I'm surprised at how poorly GB has handled this, I think you just start him, and worry about the consequences after the year is over. I can only guess they think Rodgers gives them the best chance to win ... otherwise I can't imagine why they are doing what they are doing.

I agree but ANYONE who really believes that Aaron freaking Rodgers is a better option than Brett Favre to give the Packers a chance to win is flat out...lying or stupid.


The #s speak for themselves...Rodgers has thrown 59 passes EVER...yeah HE is the "man" allright.

Dont get me wrong, I hope for his sake and the Packers sake that the kid lights it up.

IMO TT has put his job on the line. I mean how you show so much faith in a guy over the guy who got you to OT in the conference championship game 6 moths ago is beyond me. In fact, if the Packers dont get AS far this season, I think he is gonzo. he has assembled a terrific young team no question, but the name of the game in the NFL is win...NOW. Favre has done that in spades for years and years.

And I don't understand why the 20M is an insult? Someone can insult me with that kind of offer any day they'd like.

because it insinuates that favre was doing this for money. Does ANYONE really believe that? he wants to play football...period. He also does not wnat things to come between him and the GB franchise that would tarnish them nor himself. I have NO problem with them offering him a job within the orginization as he will always be one of the biggest faces of a team with a very long legacy, but trying to buy him off to not play anywhere else is insulting IMO.

bottom line is...if he wants to play you let him. If he doesn't work out, then you can always go to the back-up.....oh yeah, they already did.

[Displaced Flames fan]

More Javon Walker insanity...has to be talked out of retirement. This guy has major issues.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/traini...ory?id=3516068

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

So they planned on grabbing Rodgers to start as a rookie because they thought Brett MIGHT retire? Come on man, that doesn't make any sense for a few reasons.

1. Rodgers was expected to go WAY higher. He fell to them.
2. There are other ways to address positional depth, especially depth that important, than throught the draft.
3. Important players retire every single year and teams don't usually say, darn I wish he would've given us notice sooner.


As for the $20M being an insult, if it had been an offer to stay retired (which it clearly isn't) you are insinuating that the player cares more about money than playing football. That's clearly not the case with Favre who stayed in Green Bay when he, without a doubt, could've gone somewhere for who knows how much money as a free agent. He elected to stay because he liked it there. Sure, he was paid well, but players who are in the game for money don't avoid free agency.

No, they drafted him because the indecision led them to believe they had Brett for a about a year or two, but regardless, Brett would not commit to one, two or 5 years at the time, they were operating blind. Rodgers falling in the draft isn't relevant to anyones arguement, and btw players never 'fall' it's just that the magazines and 'experts' guessed wrong. I don't understand what point number 2 has to do with anything, and as for point #3, your right, that is true, and I've said many times there isn't a law saying that Brett has to declare, I'm just saying that a) I can appreciate that the annual indecision would be hard to manage and b) people have no clue when they say that the retirement chatter only started here in 08.

And I don't get your second point at all, I was saying it's ironic that 20 million is insulting. I don't think 20 million is insulting regardless of what it's for. There's a certain amount of respect that comes with 20 million. Weather Farve could have signed his latest deal somewhere else is nice, but I don't know what that has to do with anything.

[transplant99]

a) I can appreciate that the annual indecision would be hard to manage

You keep saying this, but is factually incorrect.

Last season....2007...was the only year there was any indecision on Favre's part.

The previous 2 seasons was nothing but media fabrication based on the Packers having horrible seasons and the belief that favre didnt want to stay around a losing football team.

[Flames in 07]

Transplant,

Rodgers did fall vs what Mel and many others though, but that isn't relevant. GB coaches mentioned between the draft and the start of the year when asked that he was picked in part because they don't know how long they have Brett. (BTW Mel always seems to have one guy that gets drafted 10 spots further down the first round than he thinks, it's no big deal, he tends to over-value QB's) Many reporters have said and know that Brett gets burnt out at the end of every year and believe this year (IE any of the last 5) could be the time he quits, moreso than any other comparable vet that has played towards Brett's current age. That's is why there is always a circus in week 17, like that new years eve game in Chicago. Anyway, he can change his mind, that's fine ... point remains that it is hard to manage.

And when I say slide I'm referring to the public, not the NFL and as for Minnesota, he had called multiple coaches, but even if it was his buddy Childress, hard to believe that it wasn't about playing there in 08 when he has demanded to be released.

As for rights, GB doesn't have to do anything. If BF demands a release he can't get one. He is a commodity who's rights are owned by GB, GB is just looking for the best deal (which I think is dumb, they should just peddle him off to the first bidder) But it's not as simple as if Brett wants to play let'm. GB has rights, and they are just exercising them (I just wish they'd just deal with him and move on, it's a black eye on the team and the player)

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by transplant99

You keep saying this, but is factually incorrect.

Last season....2007...was the only year there was any indecision on Favre's part.

The previous 2 seasons was nothing but media fabrication based on the Packers having horrible seasons and the belief that favre didnt want to stay around a losing football team.

Who's the last player to have such media fabrication, and then ask yourself why there are so few if any that come to mind. Those Adam Schefter type guys mention in radio interviews that Brett for years has given off smoke signals that he's about done.

[transplant99]

Rodgers did fall vs what Mel and many others though, but that isn't relevant. GB coaches mentioned between the draft and the start of the year when asked that he was picked in part because they don't know how long they have Brett. (BTW Mel always seems to have one guy that gets drafted 10 spots further down the first round than he thinks, it's no big deal, he tends to over-value QB's) Many reporters have said and know that Brett gets burnt out at the end of every year and believe this year (IE any of the last 5) could be the time he quits, moreso than any other comparable vet that has played towards Brett's current age. That's is why there is always a circus in week 17, like that new years eve game in Chicago. Anyway, he can change his mind, that's fine ... point remains that it is hard to manage.

I think you just answered your own question. There has never been a 17 year vet, 3 time league MVP, (who finished 2nd last year in voting BTW) Super Bowl winning QB, who is holding every real meaningful passing record and has started 275 consecutive games....that the media COULD speculate about during the off-season. Yes I realize that favre has had questions about coming back each of the last few years, but only last year was it any kind of serious consideration that played out longer than need be. Again...there was absolutely NO need for Favre to make a choice in March about playing again in August, that was Thompsons mandate only.

And when I say slide I'm referring to the public, not the NFL and as for Minnesota, he had called multiple coaches, but even if it was his buddy Childress, hard to believe that it wasn't about playing there in 08 when he has demanded to be released.

Of course he has spoken with guys in the league about getting a spot...GB has told him he CANT play there....so why would he not be looking elsewhere since he wants to play? And he only asked for his release AFTER he was informed he was not going to allowed to compete for HIS job of the last 17 seasons....i certainly do not see a problem with that.

But it's not as simple as if Brett wants to play let'm.

I disagree...i say it is exactly that simple. What on earth has the Packers convinced that Rodgers is a better choice to win now? Once more...let the 4 qb's fight it out in training camp, since thats what TC is for, and go with the winner. Either way whomever gets the nod can always be replaced by the other guy if need be ....if both are there on the club.

Who's the last player to have such media fabrication, and then ask yourself why there are so few if any that come to mind. Those Adam Schefter type guys mention in radio interviews that Brett for years has given off smoke signals that he's about done.

Because there has truly never been anyone in this situation before as listed above...he is unique to almost every player that ever lasted as long as he has.

[transplant99]

ESPN has just reported that Goodell has reinstated favre this morning and that Favre will be in GB later this afternoon and in TC tomorrow....forcing Thompson to truly put his oversized egomaniacal neck on the line with a decision to play him or trade him. (if its the trade route, then it needs to happen today or tomorrow morning)

Tonight is "family night" in Green Bay where they are expecting 70,000 fans to fill Lambeau...and Favre plans to be there.

Let the freaking sad circus begin.

[Flames in 07]

Farve will be there for family night? wow, gong show.

Look Transplant, we'll never agree, to me it seems Brett could do no wrong to you and many others and that's fine.

I'm not going to get into a big back and forth with you, I point out that we never saw this media stuff out of Elway, Marino, Matthews, or any other long time vet and somehow that doesn't matter to you because they don't have the same exact stats as him. To me both the team and Farve have given themselves and each other black eyes and are models on how to bung up a situation, simple as that. It's hard to find any objective oberservers who wouldn't say the same.

BTW one thing that cannot be argued, even though you want to argue it, is that he is owned by GB, and GB can do whatever they like. If they want to mismanage this situation like they have for the last 2 weeks that is their right, they have no obligation to release him, NONE.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by transplant99

ESPN has just reported that Goodell has reinstated favre this morning and that Favre will be in GB later this afternoon and in TC tomorrow....forcing Thompson to truly put his oversized egomaniacal neck on the line with a decision to play him or trade him. (if its the trade route, then it needs to happen today or tomorrow morning)

Tonight is "family night" in Green Bay where they are expecting 70,000 fans to fill Lambeau...and Favre plans to be there.

Let the freaking sad circus begin.

This doesn't appear to be true, based on this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3517219

[Flames in 07]

Has anyone else noticed that the NFL has changed their logo here in the last month? it now looks like this:

http://www.nfl.com/

And it used to look like this:

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=h...&ct=image&cd=1

Any brand experts no why they did this? Just the concept of 'simpler is better'?

[transplant99]

Look Transplant, we'll never agree, to me it seems Brett could do no wrong to you and many others and that's fine.

Do no wrong? I have said i didnt like the way he has handled a couple things of late, but compared to how the Packers have looked, he comes off smelling like roses.

I'm not going to get into a big back and forth with you, I point out that we never saw this media stuff out of Elway, Marino, Matthews, or any other long time vet and somehow that doesn't matter to you because they don't have the same exact stats as him

Huh? Im not talking about "stats". im talking about the situation at hand. Elway made it clear he was done after the SB win. Best ever departure of a player IMO. The others just...well...retired. There was no media hounding of them like there has been with Brett. Not sure how that falls on Favre's shoulders though.

To me both the team and Farve have given themselves and each other black eyes and are models on how to bung up a situation, simple as that. It's hard to find any objective oberservers who wouldn't say the same.

Never said any different. Honestly. I do think however, that GB as an orginization have bungled things far more than one player has. There was/is a very simple solution to all this that thompson simply would not consider.

BTW one thing that cannot be argued, even though you want to argue it, is that he is owned by GB, and GB can do whatever they like. If they want to mismanage this situation like they have for the last 2 weeks that is their right, they have no obligation to release him, NONE.

Have I EVER said anything different??

In fact I do NOT want him outright released both as a Packer fan 1st and a Favre fan 2nd. He is far to valuable an assett to not at least egt something out of him. Look, the easiest way this could (and should) of played out is TT says "OK Brett you can come to camp and compete with Rodgers and brohm for the starting job"....that way if either of them gets injured or fails to perform, then they have an extremely attractive back-up plan to go to.

Now though? TT looks like a complete and utter ass no matter what happens (sans rodgers leading this team to a SB berth) while tarnishing Favres legacy by making him hold a clip board. Worse case scenario for TT is trading him to a team that makes the playoffs, while his team misses alltogether. That would be career suicide IMO. Yet he has painted himself into a small corner that includes that very possibility.

Thank god Favre is not going to Lambeau tonight....Barnum and Bailey would of been proud, though it looks like they get another chance to do so tomorrow.

As for the logos...interesting. I had not noticed that. I like the new one better but Im not even sure as to why that is. they are rather similar yet different. Subtle change to be sure.

[Flames in 07]

So just heard on fox sportsnet that Farve is on his way, he'll report tomorrow, and starting Tuesday will be in camp.

The packers will announce what they have planned for brett, but a couple of NFL reporters figure that they will only let him do individual drills until they trade him away.

Unless Brett is promising not to to report to 30 possible teams that he could be traded to I have no idea what GB is doing. Just trade him for a 5th round pick or something and move on. I'm sure every news truck with a satellite on the top is on its way to Green Bay right now for one of the biggest circus' in all of sports.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by transplant99

In fact I do NOT want him outright released both as a Packer fan 1st and a Favre fan 2nd. He is far to valuable an assett to not at least egt something out of him. Look, the easiest way this could (and should) of played out is TT says "OK Brett you can come to camp and compete with Rodgers and brohm for the starting job"....that way if either of them gets injured or fails to perform, then they have an extremely attractive back-up plan to go to.

Now though? TT looks like a complete and utter ass no matter what happens (sans rodgers leading this team to a SB berth) while tarnishing Favres legacy by making him hold a clip board. Worse case scenario for TT is trading him to a team that makes the playoffs, while his team misses alltogether. That would be career suicide IMO. Yet he has painted himself into a small corner that includes that very possibility.

Thank god Favre is not going to Lambeau tonight....Barnum and Bailey would of been proud, though it looks like they get another chance to do so tomorrow.

As for the logos...interesting. I had not noticed that. I like the new one better but Im not even sure as to why that is. they are rather similar yet different. Subtle change to be sure.

I agree with that, I just don't understand why they can't make a decision on him. They asked him to wait a day or two so they can fix the situation, and did nothing. I think the whole career suicide thing has already happened btw.

[Flames in 07]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3517219

Hmm maybe a step in the right direction ... so long as it is a real competition.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Chiefs have lost both first rounders to injuries. Neither looks real serious at this point, but they could both miss significant time.

Dorsey with a sprained knee and Albert with a sprained foot. Just what they needed.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=090...o&confirm=true

[Displaced Flames fan]

It's amazing. ESPN is STILL running with the story that the $20M discussion between the Packers and Favre is a payment to stay retired. It's only been 36 hours since that theory was debunked.

Morons.