There is also a large group of people in the UFO world who believe UFO's are actually us time traveling to the past.
That idea is actually more credible to me than the notion that aliens are travelling vast distances across the galaxy to visit us.
If these "greys" are indeed visiting earth, the fact that they look humanoid, would lead me to believe they are "humans" from the far future. I doubt very much any other alien would look remotely "human".
There is no reliable evidence that any of this is happening.
There is no reliable evidence that any of this is happening.
Just you wait until a giant mothership with a 20km circumference positions itself over the Calgary Tower; then you'll be wishing your Albertan britches you didn't hex us!
Just you wait until a giant mothership with a 20km circumference positions itself over the Calgary Tower; then you'll be wishing your Albertan britches you didn't hex us!
Pfft the tower has wireless capability, and I can send a viagra email to alieninvaders@aol.com, thus destroying the mothership with a insidious computer virus.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Just you wait until a giant mothership with a 20km circumference positions itself over the Calgary Tower; then you'll be wishing your Albertan britches you didn't hex us!
Bring it on! I'm going to board the ship like Richard Dreyfuss:
I don't doubt, given the size of the universe, that life exists elsewhere--somewhere. It seems virtually a mathematical certainty that given the vastness of the universe, the infinitesimally rare conditions that support life must exist in a few other places; it seems far less likely that Earth is somehow unique.
But that same math dictates that we are very unlikely to ever see a UFO or meet an extra-terrestrial. Aliens would face the same logistical challenges to coming here as we would to going there--that the distances to be traveled are so amazingly vast that they constitute a virtually unbreakable barrier to long-distance space travel.
So--I can imagine extraterrestrial life somewhere else in the Universe. Intelligent extraterrestrial life I'm less sure of, but I could at least imagine it. Intelligent extraterrestrials coming here and taking mini-tours of earth and posing for grainy photographs? Highly unlikely.
I fully agree with that.
I have little doubt we have life on other planets, but for me its always been the distance issue. IF they have found other ways to travel, wormholes, etc.. sure.. But if they come all this way it makes no sense they wouldn't communicate, because if they are advanced they must share the same feature that made us advance, curiosity.
My little girl and i saw one a couple weeks ago, there was no way these things were from earth, i dont care what anyone says..ive thought ive seen them before, but i would bet the farm that these were the real deal. my parents had one hovering over their car at 6 a.m in Hinton one time in the 70's then heard of 5 other peoples experiences moments later on the radio..one lady actually saw the beings standing on the road.
I have little doubt we have life on other planets, but for me its always been the distance issue. IF they have found other ways to travel, wormholes, etc.. sure.. But if they come all this way it makes no sense they wouldn't communicate, because if they are advanced they must share the same feature that made us advance, curiosity.
Well, one would have to assume that they are technologically superior and have solved the space-time equation. One would also assume that technological brilliance would be accompanied by philosophical and societal brilliance... this means they likely have evolved morals and ethics, and are disinterested in conflict. If they weren't evolved morally and existed, we'd definitely know.
As well, as much as I doubt the abilities of global governments to keep a secret as large as extra-terrestrial life... if an advanced species was curious about humanity, the last thing they would do is trumpet their arrival to every Tom, Dick and Harry. They would make arrangements with the global governments to keep their secret and allow intergalactic exchanges to be done behind closed doors until "society is deemed ready."
I think the most likely scenarios with rampant UFO sightings and continued government denial are:
1. Extra-terrestrials exist and don't wish to interact with any of us, including our governments, yet. We're more like an Ape exhibit at the zoo. The sightings are slip-ups by the extra terrestrials. Governments don't admit this because they really know just as little as the public does and wish to avoid the fallout of admitting they have no control or understanding of the situation.
2. Extra-terrestrials exist and don't wish to interact with any of us yet. However, they do have relations with the global governments, who are do a surprisingly good job of keeping it a secret aside from the odd sighting. Governments don't admit this because they wish to avoid the fallout of disclosure.
3. Extra-terrestrials are future humans who are travelling back in time.
4. There are no extra-terrestrial visitors and what UFOs people have seen are top-secret terrestrial air/space craft and of this time period.
Last edited by Thunderball; 07-29-2008 at 04:46 PM.
That idea is actually more credible to me than the notion that aliens are travelling vast distances across the galaxy to visit us.
If these "greys" are indeed visiting earth, the fact that they look humanoid, would lead me to believe they are "humans" from the far future. I doubt very much any other alien would look remotely "human".
There is no reliable evidence that any of this is happening.
Now forgive me if there is a real obvious answer to this (I'll bet there is) that I'm missing, but why would they be in a spaceship to travel back in time? Assuming, of course, that humans from the far future are still actually on earth.
Now forgive me if there is a real obvious answer to this (I'll bet there is) that I'm missing, but why would they be in a spaceship to travel back in time?
Now forgive me if there is a real obvious answer to this (I'll bet there is) that I'm missing, but why would they be in a spaceship to travel back in time? Assuming, of course, that humans from the far future are still actually on earth.
Like the one in the movie "Idiocracy"? Seriously though has anyone read either of the "Andreasson Affair" books by Raymond Fowler? I'm pretty skeptical but I picked up the first one at a used book store several years ago just for fun and it freaked me out.
Well, one would have to assume that they are technologically superior and have solved the space-time equation. One would also assume that technological brilliance would be accompanied by philosophical and societal brilliance... this means they likely have evolved morals and ethics, and are disinterested in conflict. If they weren't evolved morally and existed, we'd definitely know.
I agree with that.
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As well, as much as I doubt the abilities of global governments to keep a secret as large as extra-terrestrial life... if an advanced species was curious about humanity, the last thing they would do is trumpet their arrival to every Tom, Dick and Harry. They would make arrangements with the global governments to keep their secret and allow intergalactic exchanges to be done behind closed doors until "society is deemed ready."
I don't think the intial job for visiting aliens is that at all, its studying our language and trying to make sense of that firstly.
I do think they would quietly speak with people they see as positions of power, but it would be very difficult for them not to be discovered no matter who they approached.
You'd think they would be most eager to contact scientists or people that have something common to them like math and the sciences.
Either way, the fact most people claim aliens to have two eyes, look like humans, etc.. Is the definite part that convinces me they havent seen aliens. The likelihood they look remotely even close to us is staggeringly small.
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. Extra-terrestrials exist and don't wish to interact with any of us, including our governments, yet. We're more like an Ape exhibit at the zoo. The sightings are slip-ups by the extra terrestrials. Governments don't admit this because they really know just as little as the public does and wish to avoid the fallout of admitting they have no control or understanding of the situation.
I think this is highly unlikely, since if they chose earth its because they heard our 'noise' in the galaxy and went to investigate. If they have protocols for first contact, they would seek contact, since intelligence is tied so closely to curiosity.
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2. Extra-terrestrials exist and don't wish to interact with any of us yet. However, they do have relations with the global governments, who are do a surprisingly good job of keeping it a secret aside from the odd sighting. Governments don't admit this because they wish to avoid the fallout of disclosure.
Again I doubt this highly, since governments are corrupt, full of leaks and of course change routinely in the west. Keeping the biggest secret of all time is a near impossibility, nor would an intelligent alien race not want to be kept secret for long.
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3. Extra-terrestrials are future humans who are traveling back in time.
Always a possibility, although I find it very unlikely, as you'd assume time travel back in time would be watching events that have occurred much like viewing a movie, so no interaction nor could those of us in the past see them since its already happened.
I think I subscribe to the 'the universe it just too gigantic for us to be noticed, yet...' viewpoint.
Our planet only started making noise in the last 80yrs that could be traced by alien races, and that noise is only nearing some of our closest neighborhood star systems, only revealing ourselves to .00000001% of the universe
I think its more likely we see things we cant explain, turn them into something we hear others experience and make that the reality.
If someone would describe an Alien with no human like features, I would give that a listen, because for us to run into a species in this vast universe that looks like us is incredible unlikely.
So for me like many, I do hope for the day we make contact, I think its more likely we do through SETI than a saucer landing at the white house lawn
I'll always take the side of the skeptic, UFO's, Aliens, are all on the same line of Ghosts and other things people imagine are real.
Either way, the fact most people claim aliens to have two eyes, look like humans, etc.. Is the definite part that convinces me they havent seen aliens. The likelihood they look remotely even close to us is staggeringly small.
I disagree with this for the sole reason that i Think any species will come from a planet that supports life (which I would think would be much like our own) so I think its reasonable to assume that they would have similar characteristics to us. Just my thoughts on it.
I don't know that the universe is too gigantic for us to be noticed yet. That kind of thinking kept educated people believing in flat earths and the Four Elements for years and years.
And the humanoid appearance? Why not? I tend to think that since we are constantly looking for planets with similar surface conditions, beings on other planets would be doing the same thing. We are pretty well adapted to our environment, so why wouldn't they look similar? Maybe opposable toes... Maybe bigger brains... Just as long as we're not talking about Jabba the Hut. And if a galactic traveler were to look significantly different, they'd probably assume a familiar form so that the freak out factor would be minimized.
As for the assumption that technological brilliance = moral brilliance... Well... I don't necessarily agree with that. I gotta think about it a bit more.
I disagree with this for the sole reason that i Think any species will come from a planet that supports life (which I would think would be much like our own) so I think its reasonable to assume that they would have similar characteristics to us. Just my thoughts on it.
Thats the thing, life would evolve differently on every single planet/moon that has the key ingredients to start life.
Imagine if its immensely dense, cold or hot, little or a lot of gravity.. Mainly or all ocean life, etc..
This is a neat quick read on what life on other planets might look like.
I don't know that the universe is too gigantic for us to be noticed yet. That kind of thinking kept educated people believing in flat earths and the Four Elements for years and years.
That kind of thinking? Its just facts, the signals that could be detected by alien advanced species didn't start broadcasting since the 30's into space, calculating the speed of that sound and how far it has reached, we can tell quite accurately how many possible places 'could have heard us' by now.
Its not many
If they find us through other means such as we don't know about certainly our chances are different, but this is just our current best guesses at us being detected in a gigantic universe where our tiny little planet has only recently starting making any noticeable noise that alien life could detect. Its what we are doing with SETI, just the reverse.
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And the humanoid appearance? Why not? I tend to think that since we are constantly looking for planets with similar surface conditions, beings on other planets would be doing the same thing. We are pretty well adapted to our environment, so why wouldn't they look similar?
We used to have a theory on life on other planets roughly called the three bears planet, not too hot, not too cold, just right It was roughly that we needed a large gas giant like Jupiter to keep us safe, right distance from a sun, water, etc..
But when we started looking at life closer on earth, found extremophiles which can live in 'extreme' (duh) conditions we realized the potential for life on other planets goes up a ton. Europa is a prime candidate in our own universe as it has a frozen top layer with a vast ocean below. Its got a lot of people excited about us finding life in those oceans, we'd only imagine they would be some freaky looking things that would live out there, much like we find at the depths of our oceans.
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Maybe opposable toes... Maybe bigger brains... Just as long as we're not talking about Jabba the Hut. And if a galactic traveler were to look significantly different, they'd probably assume a familiar form so that the freak out factor would be minimized.
Well factors for life could be much harsher on other planets, likely is in a lot with life. So maybe they are much smaller, vertabrates, or aquatic life. Maybe their planet is in heavy fog, and they need no eyes, just use of sonar. Maybe they have 8 legs, or no legs.
The simple problem is our exact situation on earth would not ever occur on another planet, the likelyhood is infatisimaly small. Thats not to say its impossible they would have eyes, nose, or even 2 legs/2 arms.. But its still gonna like freakishly different from us.
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As for the assumption that technological brilliance = moral brilliance... Well... I don't necessarily agree with that. I gotta think about it a bit more.
That theory is based on the idea that as a species advances it goes through stages, and at a point where you are so advanced to travel the great expanse of space you would have already been through all the growing pains of primitave species to reach that point.
Again who knows, maybe its wishfull thinking that we expect them to be peaceful, I mean they could look at humans the same we we look at rats
Either way, the fact most people claim aliens to have two eyes, look like humans, etc.. Is the definite part that convinces me they havent seen aliens. The likelihood they look remotely even close to us is staggeringly small.
Agreed, I think someone even took a look at UFO reports and correlated that with popular culture (movies, books, pictures, etc) and showed that what was reported and what's in popular culture have a strong correlation... which I guess could be explained by the people creating the popular culture being influenced by said aliens, but I think the other way is more likely.
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Originally Posted by 4X4
And the humanoid appearance? Why not? I tend to think that since we are constantly looking for planets with similar surface conditions, beings on other planets would be doing the same thing. We are pretty well adapted to our environment, so why wouldn't they look similar? Maybe opposable toes... Maybe bigger brains... Just as long as we're not talking about Jabba the Hut. And if a galactic traveler were to look significantly different, they'd probably assume a familiar form so that the freak out factor would be minimized.
As for the assumption that technological brilliance = moral brilliance... Well... I don't necessarily agree with that. I gotta think about it a bit more.
Things like bi-lateral symmetry and such were determined very early on in evolution. So the differences between us and aliens is more likely to be further up the evolutionary chain, differences such as the differences between us and plants rather than the differences between us and dinosaurs.
Then again some things evolve over and over, the eye, wings, etc.. The laws of physics partially determine what kinds things will be successful in a given environment (similar mixtures of water, air, gasses, gravity etc).
Overall it's difficult to say because we have no other data, all earth's life is derived from a common ancestor, without further data it's very hard to know how likely or unlikely things are. Is bi-lateral symmetry so good that most large lifeforms go that way? Or is tri-lateral symmetry vastly superior and we find out we're the odd-balls?
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
That kind of thinking? Its just facts, the signals that could be detected by alien advanced species didn't start broadcasting since the 30's into space, calculating the speed of that sound and how far it has reached, we can tell quite accurately how many possible places 'could have heard us' by now.
Its not many
If they find us through other means such as we don't know about certainly our chances are different, but this is just our current best guesses at us being detected in a gigantic universe where our tiny little planet has only recently starting making any noticeable noise that alien life could detect. Its what we are doing with SETI, just the reverse.
What I'm saying is that just because we haven't figured out other forms of communication or detection doesn't mean they haven't. I'm saying that it is very naive to think that we weren't detectable before we invented radio. Who knows if they haven't got telescopes that can see evidence of life from afar?
The comparison to flat earth is a comparison to clinging to what we know and not entertaining what is possible.
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Originally Posted by Thor
We used to have a theory on life on other planets roughly called the three bears planet, not too hot, not too cold, just right It was roughly that we needed a large gas giant like Jupiter to keep us safe, right distance from a sun, water, etc..
But when we started looking at life closer on earth, found extremophiles which can live in 'extreme' (duh) conditions we realized the potential for life on other planets goes up a ton. Europa is a prime candidate in our own universe as it has a frozen top layer with a vast ocean below. Its got a lot of people excited about us finding life in those oceans, we'd only imagine they would be some freaky looking things that would live out there, much like we find at the depths of our oceans.
Well factors for life could be much harsher on other planets, likely is in a lot with life. So maybe they are much smaller, vertabrates, or aquatic life. Maybe their planet is in heavy fog, and they need no eyes, just use of sonar. Maybe they have 8 legs, or no legs.
The simple problem is our exact situation on earth would not ever occur on another planet, the likelyhood is infatisimaly small. Thats not to say its impossible they would have eyes, nose, or even 2 legs/2 arms.. But its still gonna like freakishly different from us.
OK. As long as you're sure about that. I'm saying that there's no reason why they couldn't look quite similar and if they did, there;'s no reason why they couldn't assume a form that would reduce the shock.
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Originally Posted by Thor
That theory is based on the idea that as a species advances it goes through stages, and at a point where you are so advanced to travel the great expanse of space you would have already been through all the growing pains of primitave species to reach that point.
Again who knows, maybe its wishfull thinking that we expect them to be peaceful, I mean they could look at humans the same we we look at rats
Well that's a nice theory, but if you look at our evolution you'll see that it hasn't come anywhere close to that. yet we have the capability to destroy ourselves and most of life on earth. And some would even have you believe that there are people out there trying to do just that.
So no, technological brilliance hasn't gotten us any nearer to (as JL put it) A Brotherhood of Man.
Well maybe once before, a falling star that seemed to turn and fly off in a different direction about 18 years ago. That was wierd too. Yet I just chalked that up to the angle I was at and the hills in Calgary it disappeared past. Cool thing to see, yet I chalk that up to the angle I was at and other science stuff.
You know, I saw something similar not to long ago...something a little bigger than a falling star that came down, stopped, then went on a different direction...but I was pretty high at the time so I never thought about it too much.
