Still believe in the death Penalty?

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

1) We don't have the death penalty in Canada so my money won't be paying for SFA.

Sorry I mean hypothetically as a state resident. I'm well aware that Canada does not have the death penalty!

[Dion]

Originally Posted by evman150

This is most likely cruel and unusual. And your desire to drive someone "nutty" and have them "rot" says a lot about you.

It does? I guess you should complain to the American justice system and have them close down those prisons. Or Canadian prisons for the matter that put prisoners in isolation.

Maybe you'd prefer that killers be jailed in the Ferndale Prison in Mission BC where they play golf regularly on thier own 9 hole golf course.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by evman150

It's actually quite a bit different than the abortion argument. I can understand both sides of the abortion argument. I can't understand the other side of the state murdering argument. You are against some murders but for some murders? How is that not an inconsistent position? But we're murdering murderers so it's okay? So who murders the government who has now become a murderer? After all, they're murderers as well and are now deserving of being murdered.

How is this not obvious that this doesn't work?!

That is your opinion though, and while I can understand how you feel that way I can see why some do not view the death penalty as murder. Eye for an eye for example. You took away someone else's right to live so you do not deserve that right. You might not agree with that statement but that doesn't mean that someone who feels that way is wrong.

The law already distinguishes between murder. With first and second (is there a 3rd degree?) degree murders as well as man-slaughter. There are some crimes which do carry a heavier weight than others. I am not up on the US laws for capital punishment but I know one of them is the premeditate murder of a witness to a crime. Is that more of a murder than some guy who beats the guy to death who raped his daughter? I think so, but both are murder.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

When did I murder him? I have never even said in this thread if I am for capital punishment (I don't think...). I just don't feel sorry for him because he was executed.

True, sorry about that. I guess I can also add that I never said I was sympathetic toward him or antone else should be.

[Buzzard]

I am 100% for the death penalty. My friends grandfather was murdered in front of her when she was a little girl, and another friends mom and stepdad were murdered in their car with my friend and her sister and brother in the back seat by her father. When you see the pain of murder firsthand it makes you change your mind really quick if you are against it. By the way, the friend that was in her car, on Christmas Eve to boot..(we were 15 years old) her father is now out of prison. Having a great old time.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Buzzard

I am 100% for the death penalty. My friends grandfather was murdered in front of her when she was a little girl, and another friends mom and stepdad were murdered in their car with my friend and her sister and brother in the back seat by her father. When you see the pain of murder firsthand it makes you change your mind really quick if you are against it. By the way, the friend that was in her car, on Christmas Eve to boot..(we were 15 years old) her father is now out of prison. Having a great old time.

Well, he shouldn't be free that is for sure. You must live in Canada?

How does killing the man solve anything? Would it make you feel better?

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by Buzzard

I am 100% for the death penalty. My friends grandfather was murdered in front of her when she was a little girl, and another friends mom and stepdad were murdered in their car with my friend and her sister and brother in the back seat by her father. When you see the pain of murder firsthand it makes you change your mind really quick if you are against it. By the way, the friend that was in her car, on Christmas Eve to boot..(we were 15 years old) her father is now out of prison. Having a great old time.

In no way do I sympathize with the murderer, but what does the death penalty accomplish? Were these men locked away from society so that they never hurt anyone again? If the death penalty was supposed to attone for the murders, how is it appropriate compensation? If so, then yeah he should have the death penalty. But so should his spouse if he has one, to compensate for the death of both the mom and stepdad. Maybe have his kids watch so that the psychological damage to the kids is also fair compensation.

The death penalty isn't about justice out of fair compensation. In fact, I'm not entirely what exactly is the purpose of the death penalty.

[fatso]

Originally Posted by Buzzard

I am 100% for the death penalty. My friends grandfather was murdered in front of her when she was a little girl, and another friends mom and stepdad were murdered in their car with my friend and her sister and brother in the back seat by her father. When you see the pain of murder firsthand it makes you change your mind really quick if you are against it. By the way, the friend that was in her car, on Christmas Eve to boot..(we were 15 years old) her father is now out of prison. Having a great old time.

so your point is that 1. everyone who is against the death penalty likely hasn't experienced the murder of a loved one? 2. And those people who haven't experienced that, but are still for the death penalty, are somehow more empathetic?

not trying to be a jerk, i just genuinely don't understand your point.

[The Fonz]

I can't see any positives in re-instating the death penalty. It's more expensive, you're taking someone's life, and it will not prevent future killings because lets face it, life in a cold/dark/lonely cell is far more scary than getting killed by a needle. If someone is able to murder another person, chances are that they probably don't have an appreciation for life, so the death penalty isn't that scary of a thought.

[edn88]

I think that there are crimes that certainly warrant the death penalty. I fully realize that it is not a deterant to future crimes for others, but I think, for example, some one like Clifford Olson should have been put to death. Whether they can be rehabilitated or not is irrelevent, if you do something horrific enough, you have forfeited your right to live.

I don't like the idea of spending a fortune keeping someone in jail who will never see the light of day.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

I can't see any positives in re-instating the death penalty. It's more expensive, you're taking someone's life, and it will not prevent future killings because lets face it, life in a cold/dark/lonely cell is far more scary than getting killed by a needle. If someone is able to murder another person, chances are that they probably don't have an appreciation for life, so the death penalty isn't that scary of a thought.

I agree completely if 'Life in Prison' was just that, life. It is not though. The vast majority of murderers will walk the streets again, after being hardened in prison for 25 years.

[Calgaryborn]

The death penalty is the only just punishment for willfully taking a life. You take a life; you lose your life. That's fair! What is not fair is that this murderer goes on living. That's not justice! That is not balanced scales!

Why is this so hard to understand? If the legal system makes mistakes than fix the system. Set the standard for truth high. Don't use incompetence as an excuse to not execute justice.

When a man kills another man without just cause we call that "murder". If he was protecting himself or his family or his country we say he "killed justly". He is not a murderer. He might even be regarded as a hero. When the State executes someone found guilty of a capital offence they are not committing murder.

[fatso]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

The death penalty is the only just punishment for willfully taking a life. You take a life; you lose your life. That's fair! What is not fair is that this murderer goes on living. That's not justice! That is not balanced scales!

Why is this so hard to understand? If the legal system makes mistakes than fix the system. Set the standard for truth high. Don't use incompetence as an excuse to not execute justice.

When a man kills another man without just cause we call that "murder". If he was protecting himself or his family or his country we say he "killed justly". He is not a murderer. He might even be regarded as a hero. When the State executes someone found guilty of a capital offence they are not committing murder.

why is what so hard to understand? That murder necessitates the death penalty? Why is it so hard to understand that many people do not believe in that?

And incompetence is not an excuse to not execute justice. Or rather, your version of justice. Incompetence, or more specifically human and judicial error, is a very legitimate concern. The death penalty is not something you can take back or compensate.

[Displaced Flames fan]

I have become anti death penalty over the years. For a few reasons, some of which have already been mentioned.

1. Too much chance of executing an innocent. Look at how many convictions are being overturned these days by DNA evidence.

2. Not my right to decide who lives and who dies.

3. Don't want the responsibility of the above.

That said, I have zero sympathy for any executed prisoner who was guilty of the crime they were convicted of. NONE.

[Phanuthier]

why yes I do still believe in the death penelty

I just don't agree with how much money is spent to prosecute them

[fatso]

I agree with you DFF. I really couldn't care less if a murderer lives or dies. You look at someone like Dahmer who had body parts in his freezer, and it's pretty likely he's guilty. He got shafted in general population, I think, and I figure "good... he likely deserved it". Why should anyone have sympathy for an executed convicted murderer?

But that's not the point. People don't have to have sympathy to want a society that transcends violence. I know some people believe in an eye-for-an-eye and to an extent I believe in that. But in addition to mistake and error (which alone, imo, should invalidate the death penalty), I think it's important to have a stand against killing other people. It's simply not right - not morally or ethically. And no matter how hard it is to remember that when faced with the monsters out there, it's important to push ourselves to be better than the murderers. Just like RougeUnderoos pointed out... we don't want to emulate the murderer's ways.

I'm all for locking people up forever and harsh penalties. But the line has to be drawn at torture and death. It's what makes us different from them I think.

[Devils'Advocate]

I have no problem with the death penalty. So long as they carry the logic through and also sentence to death the man who pulls the switch/gives the injection.

[Buzzard]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

In no way do I sympathize with the murderer, but what does the death penalty accomplish? Were these men locked away from society so that they never hurt anyone again? If the death penalty was supposed to attone for the murders, how is it appropriate compensation? If so, then yeah he should have the death penalty. But so should his spouse if he has one, to compensate for the death of both the mom and stepdad. Maybe have his kids watch so that the psychological damage to the kids is also fair compensati
The death penalty isn't about justice out of fair compensation. In fact, I'm not entirely what exactly is the purpose of the death penalty.

In my post it says the killer is free and is free to harm others..not locked up forever unfortunately. As far as the point of the death penalty, I think it was used at first for punishment, but later as a detterent for murder. I can't say for sure though. Personally, I am pro-death penalty, but rotting in jail forever is good too. Problem is in Canada they don't rot in jail, as my post earlier said.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I have no problem with the death penalty. So long as they carry the logic through and also sentence to death the man who pulls the switch/gives the injection.

That is not logical. The first person took a life without cause. The second took a life under order of the state. The first took a life knowing he would be forfeiting his own for the crime. The second was fulfilling a just law. Under your logic a man who killed in defence of his family or his country is just as much a murderer as this man who killed over a $400.00 debt and therefore should be treated the same. That would be a pretty messed up world.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

The death penalty is the only just punishment for willfully taking a life. You take a life; you lose your life. That's fair! What is not fair is that this murderer goes on living. That's not justice! That is not balanced scales!

No that is not fair or balanced. In the case of Mr. Osborne, he took two lives. By your logic, he took two lives, so in "fair" return two lives should be taken. Perhaps him and a relative. For Jeffery Dalmer, he took the lives of countless prostitutes. Perhaps for fair compensation we need to sacrifice a countless number of virgins.

One life is NOT fair compensation for another life.