9/11 Third Tower Mystery 'Solved'

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Oh come on, this has been going on since the original Gulf War, but now with the internet and access to real media it is much harder. So they upped the ante and manifested 9-11.

What better way to follow the satanic Bush administration than with some nice patriotic history about a black man verses a woman for the presidency. Doesn't mean they aren't puppets and won't continue to hold course.

Ever notice how right after 9-11, Bush was very careful to mention both 9-11 and Iraq in the same speeches even though they were unrelated? Eventually, 50% of Americans believed that Iraq was responsible for 9-11!!! And now with the news agencies running less than two minutes of coverage per week, they're free to do whatever they want.

Sorry, I'm not really a conspiracy type of guy. But this is so obvious and in our faces I can't really call it a conspiracy. More like a catastrophe.

I don't understand what any of that has ANYTHING to do with invading Iran.

The US is NOT going to invade Iran. They might attack their nuclear facilities, but invade? No way.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Azure

Because, it is of course much more fun to just blame Bush. Or the US government in general.

I actually don't blame Bush. Or Clinton. On a certain level I blame Condoleeza Rice. She is the only person who is confirmed to have read a memo entitled "Al Qaeda plans to use airplanes to attack buildings in the U.S." She showed then her unsuitability for her job, and her incompetence, by not investigating the matter further and exploring possible defences against such an eventuality. Bush, as I understand it, had no inkling himself, and I don't see how he could be expected to.

In the end, though--all of this is blaming the victim. Rice was incompetent--but it's not her fault that this happened. It was an unprovoked attack--and though hindsight is 20/20, governments just can't predict every single outcome, not with any certainty. There's no conspiracy here. There's just incompetence, which is usually not in short supply when it comes to government--particularly governments like the U.S. where top officials get their positions through ideological compatibility with the president and not actual qualifications for their job.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't understand what any of that has ANYTHING to do with invading Iran.

The US is NOT going to invade Iran. They might attack their nuclear facilities, but invade? No way.

Social engineering.

Truth is that I cannot in any way substantiate any of this. Lets just remember I spouted this non-nonsensical jaberwokie about the US going to invade Iran some time in the future for oil, but only after they socially engineer their people to believe what the gov't want them to.

Sheeple, the next evolution, if you will. And they will sit there watching it on their TVs never questioning anything.

And American's wonder why the rest of the world hates them.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

The 9-11 attacks were the first in a series of events designed and executed by the Bush Administration for the specific purpose of conditioning (brainwashing) the American public for the eventual (and illegal) invasion of Iran. For Oil.

Well.. we now know that Looger is in fact back...

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

It was an unprovoked attack

That's debatable.


As for the 'conspiracy theory' I am completely prepared to believe, were someone to provide evidence, that the US government, up to and including the president, received intelligence that indicated 9/11 was to happen and decided to let it happen.

I personally don't believe that it would be possible for the Government to actually be directly involved in the attack, either by organizing it, planting explosives, etc. etc. I just think there are to many people who would have to be involved to keep a secret like that quiet.

Oh, and United 93 was shot down. There is no way I believe the passengers 'wrested control' of the airplane back and that it crashed in the struggle. Uh uh, no way. That plane was shot down by US warplanes and the government built a cover-story.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by driveway

Oh, and United 93 was shot down. There is no way I believe the passengers 'wrested control' of the airplane back and that it crashed in the struggle. Uh uh, no way. That plane was shot down by US warplanes and the government built a cover-story.

Why couldn't the passengers fight back? There were 40 people on that plane and 4 hijackers with boxcutters.

What's the point of covering it up if they shot that plane down? I think it is fairly unanimous that it would an acceptable outcome, considering the circumstances.

In a grim way it would actually make the government and the military look good -- someone actually made a decision and did something, instead of just watching it all unfold and doing nothing, which is what they did and have been soundly criticized for.

[ken0042]

I think it's possible that a military plane did shoot down flight 93, but at the time the story of passengers fighting back was the one "feel good" event that came out of that day, so the gov't may have let that version of events continue.

For anybody who gets caught up in these conspiracy theories, keep in mind that the theorists will only provide you with the info that helps their side of the story. A classic example of how a series of events can be turned into a conspiracy can be found in the Death Star Conspiracy Theory.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Why couldn't the passengers fight back? There were 40 people on that plane and 4 hijackers with boxcutters.

What's the point of covering it up if they shot that plane down? I think it is fairly unanimous that it would an acceptable outcome, considering the circumstances.

In a grim way it would actually make the government and the military look good -- someone actually made a decision and did something, instead of just watching it all unfold and doing nothing, which is what they did and have been soundly criticized for.

I've always thought this might be the only true conspiracy. It would make perfect sense for the government to cover up downing a civilian plane. Although it seems to make perfect sense in hindsight, it certainly would have looked iffy at the time. They hadn't figured out the whole terrorist scheme by then. Can you imagine. "Government downs civilian plain killing hundreds because there may have been a terrorist plot to crash it into the white house."

One thing that dissuades me from this argument is the calls to family members from passengers where they say they are about to attack the terrorists. Both the revolt and army intervention could have easily have happened and are not mutually exclusive. The passengers plot a take-over but back out, or they do go through with it and the army intervenes before it can go through.

Another thing is the distance from the target. They were far away from any potential target. If they were downing civilians (which I'm assuming was a last resort) they would have waited until they were closer to any potential targets.

[Ozy_Flame]

Regarding United 93, it is possible it was shot down given that a crashed plane simply doesn't disintegrate into the ground as was the case in Shanksville, but I wouldn't put it past the passengers to wrest control of the plane - the hijackers, despite all of their planning, could easily have panicked and made mistakes so much that the whole thing spiraled out of control. All it takes is a few brave passengers, and I believe guys like Todd Beamer and others really did try and do something about it. There is too much evidence to suggest otherwise.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by blankall

I think the big issue with tower 7 is that most photography of the building does not show the extent of the damage prior to collapse. Although the building remained largely intact one side experienced heavy damage. Because that side faced towards the smoke and debris from the larger towers, you could not see the damage.

It wasn't easy to take pictures through the smoke and you couldnt get in between the debris and tower 7. Apparently from the few images they have the entire side of tower 7 experienced large structural damage.

How I understand it is the first two towers imploded because the airplane and explosion took out the centre columns. The damage on tower 7 was one side only, which should result in falling to one side or at least twisting. This didn't happen so they're claiming it was the heat of the fire that weakened the connections. This iron is covered with flame ######ant plus the sprinkler systems should have come on. The only people I might listen to for an explanation would be demolition experts who take great pains and months of work to make a controlled implosion but this just happened all by itself.

[maverickeastwood]

The question that begs an answer is not how they came down (I believe controlled demolition), but why they had to come down...whats the message? Whats the motive? Too many similarities arose from these events and the Reichstag in Germany, Nero and the great Roman fire... One thing was accomplished, strike fear in the hearts of all who saw the events.

[transplant99]

Sheeple, the next evolution, if you will. And they will sit there watching it on their TVs never questioning anything.

But didn't you just state that there is no coverage on Tv anymore?

So which is it?

Sigh...the whole thing is so ridiculous.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by ken0042

For anybody who gets caught up in these conspiracy theories, keep in mind that the theorists will only provide you with the info that helps their side of the story. A classic example of how a series of events can be turned into a conspiracy can be found in the Death Star Conspiracy Theory.

Ha--that is classic! My new favourite website.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

How I understand it is the first two towers imploded because the airplane and explosion took out the centre columns. The damage on tower 7 was one side only, which should result in falling to one side or at least twisting. This didn't happen so they're claiming it was the heat of the fire that weakened the connections. This iron is covered with flame ######ant plus the sprinkler systems should have come on. The only people I might listen to for an explanation would be demolition experts who take great pains and months of work to make a controlled implosion but this just happened all by itself.

Twisting and falling to one side simply will not happen with a building of that weight that is built the way it was. Like other people said, this isn't a Jenga tower, its a massive building that weighs many many tons.

The way the building was built if you take out one support structure the other collapse under the weight. So the side structure was damaged by the debris. Then the inside structures eventually became warped due to fire. The building then collapsed.

For the record the building did not entirely collapse in a controlled fashion. It severely damaged other buildings around it.

"When 7 World Trade Center collapsed, debris caused substantial damage and contamination to the Borough of Manhattan Community College's Fiterman Hall building, located adjacent at 30 West Broadway, to the extent that the building is not salvageable. As of August 2007, Fiterman Hall is undergoing deconstruction.[51] The adjacent Verizon Building, an art deco building constructed in 1926, had extensive damage to its east façade from the collapse of 7 World Trade Center, though was able to be restored at a cost of US$1.4 billion."

I know its wikipedia, but the sources it links are pretty solid.

[CaptainCrunch]

I think that too many people read too many tom Clancy books while watching Mel Gibson's conspiracy theory.

I buy that the U.S. government leading back to the dawn of the thing handles intelligence information badly, ignores warning signs out of arrogance and acts stupidly.

Everyone always points out that the American government is incompetent, the CIA is incompetant, and the leadership of the U.S. military is incompetent.

Yet suddenly they can pull out and plan a plot where they fly planes into the two World Trade center buildings and the pentagon and successfully shoot down a fourth plane (Wait wouldn't they want that fourth plane to reach its destination to further indoctrinate the sheep and raise anger). All while minimizing casualties and having perfect operational security, in afterwords everything works perfectly. At the same time they manage to perfectly plant explosives in the world trade center and disguise a missile as a jet liner which flys into the Pentagon in front of witnesses.

Wow, if they were that competant they would have finished Iraq off by now and Bush would have been well into stamping out the last bit of resistance in Iran and would have spent the last 100 days of his presidency chortling evilly while signing presidential pardons for Hitler and Stalin who have bee sitting in solitary confinement in Leavenworth for way to long.

[metallicat]

Wouldn't someone have come clean by now if there was an actual conspiracy? How hard is it to cover something this massive up? It would be next to impossible I would think, to have the sheer number of people on board a plan like this.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Wouldn't someone have come clean by now if there was an actual conspiracy? How hard is it to cover something this massive up? It would be next to impossible I would think, to have the sheer number of people on board a plan like this.

Nah they liquidated Superman, Batman, Hell boy and Aquaman shortly after they pulled off this job for them. Then they arranged for an unfortunate accident aboard Wonder Woman's invisible jet, not because she was involved, but because she turned down President Bush's advances during the last Illuminati meeting.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Well.. we now know that Looger is in fact back...

I am not Looger.


Also, I did say in another post that I'm not really a conspiracy type, but in this particular case shared my thoughts which I openly admit I cannot substantiate and thus are really just nonsensical jaberwokie.

[Burninator]

9/11 was a conspiracy.

19 Muslim extremists conspired to hi-jack commercial jet airliners and fly them into buildings.

WTC 7 was not a controlled a demolition. It was brought down by several raging fires and by severe structural damage.



"The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7," NIST's Sunder tells PM. "On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom — approximately 10 stories — about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out." NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner.
...
NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down.
...
According to NIST, there was one primary reason for the building's failure: In an unusual design, the columns near the visible kinks were carrying exceptionally large loads, roughly 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor. "What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors," Sunder notes, "it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down."

Link

They also believe that large diesel tanks that were for backup generators fed the fires. Fires which burned for 7 hours! WTC 7 also had an unusual structural design because it straddled an electrical substation. Buildings just aren't designed to get 25% of the bottom 10 storys punched out and have fires burn for 7 hours.

Here are some pictures that show the damage.







Emergency response workers at Ground Zero realized that extensive damage to the lower south section of WTC 7 would cause collapse as early as 3 pm on 9/11, a fact reported on news broadcasts at the time.12 Video footage shows that when collapse occurred, the south wall of the building gave in first, which is exactly what we would expect based on the location of the most extensive damage. As noted for the collapse of the South Tower, the mechanics of the building’s fall are completely consistent with the nature of the damage sustained.

Link

Conspiracy theorists don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to the science and facts of the 9/11 attacks. The investigations into the attacks have been done by thousands of people by many many different non-government agencies, schools, institutes, engineering firms etc.

[CaptainCrunch]

OMG they got to Burninator, how much did it take for you to sell your soul.