Waterboarding - Believe me, It's torture

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

..

Mhmmm. There was what, 10 people in there? And that was what, 4 months ago? I have no issues getting any anymore, but since that's the kind of argument you've stooped to, apparently you're conceding. Way to take the high road...

[MrMastodonFarm]

..

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

I have no idea, it was told to me by a friend who also posts here.

I thought it was downright hilarious.

Just saying.

So now you're spouting second hand info you heard how long ago and exaggerating it in some misguided attempt to embarass me so you can 'win' the argument?

I'd go further with this, but I'm pretty sure that since you've been forced to stoop to Kevin Lowe tactics, it's not hard for me to take the high road.

[MrMastodonFarm]

You take the high road
and I'll take the low(e) road
and ill be scotland
befoooorrrrrrre ya!
Where me and my true love will never meet again,
On the bonnie, bonnie banks of Loch Lomond.

[jayswin]

Wow, I know it's probably not my place to say this, but if someone has a conversation with a few other CP'ers in a chat room (4 months ago non the less), it really shouldn't be brought up in a random thread just because you're trying to win an argument. Especially since it was just second hand information from a friend of yours, and you changed 10 people to 100's of people.

I was actually enjoying the back and forth banter in this thread, until it all of a sudden got completely personal and innapropriate.

Edit: editing your posts doesn't work too well when they've already been quoted.

[Phanuthier]

Back to the thread...

Pretty insightful piece. Maybe someone knows better then I do, but when the military are trained under stressful situations, its usually not physical pain. I have some friends that are CF officers, and their training is mostly learning to operate and do their jobs in stressful situations, not to physically interrogate them and lock them up in a cell for weeks. This waterboarding stuff, the technique doesn't seem to be to inflict pain until submission, its the (and I know I'm describing this poorly) technique used to directly exploit basic human survival mechanisms as a means of interrogation.

I think if you trained someone to waterboard, they would probably have permanent brain damage.

[Slava]

^ I can't dsiagree with you there Phanuthier, although I wonder how much progress you would make anyway. If you're just simulating drowning or death then even if you can hold on for another couple of minutes is that of any consequence?

(Who knew that the rumours regarding a lack of Flames scoring might have its beginnings in the front office? Who would think that this could be discovered in a thread about water-boarding?!) I couldn't resist...

[CaptainCrunch]

It doesn't much matter what methods that the American's use torture is called torture for a reason. Whether you use waterboarding, or electricity, or break bones and twist limbs its going to have the same effect.

I'm not a fan of any kind of torture beyond extreme environmental change, sleep deprivation etc. And only if timing of the information is crucial.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Slava

^ I can't dsiagree with you there Phanuthier, although I wonder how much progress you would make anyway. If you're just simulating drowning or death then even if you can hold on for another couple of minutes is that of any consequence?

The most I can imagine is training someone to work and communicate under stressful situations, but I can't imagine them ever putting someone through physical pain / endurance training to build / decrease one's susceptibility towards interrogation methods (nor have I heard from it). Mentally, you can unless you are directly exploiting basic human survival instincts as I previously said, but I have never heard of it being done physically that would somehow result in long term physical damage. Bringing hockey in for a minute, is Darren McCarty or Rhett Warraner going to be able to handle more or less of a pounding from the years of beating they've taken? They'll take its toll.

[Azure]

I think if the timing is crucial, someone should employ any method necessary to extract the information. The President can later pardon him.

But to make it a legal method that the CIA can use at any time? I'm talking about 'torture' here....not the mental mind games that the interrogator will play in order to get the information they need....but real, torture, that inflicts physical pain....I don't agree with it.

Used too...but Micheal Yon usually has a habit of convincing people otherwise.