Should "God keep our land glorious and free"?

[Devils'Advocate]

Tradition is the stupidest reason for doing something. "traditionally, marriage is between a man and a woman", "traditionally, we fly the confederate flag around these parts", "traditionally women are supposed to stay in the kitchen and cook me some supper".

I do not sing the Canadian national anthem at sporting events because I feel that it does not represent me; as something that represents ME as a Canadian. And I'm pretty darn sure that if I sang "Flying Spaghetti Monster keep our land...." I'd get a quick fist to the face by a peace loving Christian.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Tradition is the stupidest reason for doing something. "traditionally, marriage is between a man and a woman", "traditionally, we fly the confederate flag around these parts", "traditionally women are supposed to stay in the kitchen and cook me some supper".

I do not sing the Canadian national anthem at sporting events because I feel that it does not represent me; as something that represents ME as a Canadian. And I'm pretty darn sure that if I sang "Flying Spaghetti Monster keep our land...." I'd get a quick fist to the face by a peace loving Christian.

You can continue not singing it for the rest of your life then. Hopefully it makes you feel 'better.'

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Tradition is the stupidest reason for doing something. "traditionally, marriage is between a man and a woman", "traditionally, we fly the confederate flag around these parts", "traditionally women are supposed to stay in the kitchen and cook me some supper".

I do not sing the Canadian national anthem at sporting events because I feel that it does not represent me; as something that represents ME as a Canadian. And I'm pretty darn sure that if I sang "Flying Spaghetti Monster keep our land...." I'd get a quick fist to the face by a peace loving Christian.

Tradition is important because it is history and it is the glue that holds culture and socities together. If you wipe away all tradition, historically it's been shown to undermine and cause violent changes in society.

Ever read Edmund Burke? Look at Post-Revolutionary France, Communist Russia, even Iraq after the American invasion and you see what happens when you try to remove tradition or institutions and substitute your own blank slate or better ideas.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Azure

You can continue not singing it for the rest of your life then. Hopefully it makes you feel 'better.'

I'm guessing that was disingenuous.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Tradition is important because it is history and it is the glue that holds culture and socities together. If you wipe away all tradition, historically it's been shown to undermine and cause violent changes in society.Ever read Edmund Burke? Look at Post-Revolutionary France, Communist Russia, even Iraq after the American invasion and you see what happens when you try to remove tradition or institutions and substitute your own blank slate or better ideas.

In some parts of Africa it is tradition to mutilate womens genitalia. Are you telling me that if we wiped away this practice we would only be causing violent changes and inviting chaos?

We did away with the traditional definition of marriage by allowing gays to marriage. Did our country fall into chaos? Or is that coming next week?

Are you going to tell me that if we removed "God" from our national anthem that Canadian culture would not be able to hold together and our society would cease to function?

[MarchHare]

Are you going to tell me that if we undid the arbitrary addition of "God" to our national anthem and restored the English lyrics back to their traditional state that Canadian culture would not be able to hold together and our society would cease to function?

Fixed.

[Azure]

Are we violating someones right by having 'God' in the anthem?

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Azure

Are we violating someones right by having 'God' in the anthem?

None whatsoever. And if I have a private party at my house and invite everyone in the office except for the Jewish guy because I am antisemitic, I haven't violated anyones rights either.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Tradition is the stupidest reason for doing something. "traditionally, marriage is between a man and a woman", "traditionally, we fly the confederate flag around these parts", "traditionally women are supposed to stay in the kitchen and cook me some supper".

I do not sing the Canadian national anthem at sporting events because I feel that it does not represent me; as something that represents ME as a Canadian. And I'm pretty darn sure that if I sang "Flying Spaghetti Monster keep our land...." I'd get a quick fist to the face by a peace loving Christian.

If you sang that next to me I'd give you a high five

[RougeUnderoos]

Does anyone actually care?

There is a lot of griping about "Political Correctness" and hyper-sensitive hellbound heathens, but I don't think anyone has said "they should change the anthem because I am offended by the use of the word God in the song".

It seems to be a made-up excuse to bash atheists and whine about "political correctness".

[SebC]

How about "god keep our land"? That way you're not referring to any specific god, just any god that might happen to be listening.

I support fixing the anthem, and fixing the constitution as well while we're at it.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Azure

Are we violating someones right by having 'God' in the anthem?

Maybe...

It all depends on how the Supreme Court would rule concerning whether the line "God keep our land..." in the national anthem is a violation of Sec. 2. a) of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms or not.

Note that I'm not advocating anyone making a Charter case out of this issue, but it's not as cut-and-dried as it might appear. As Rouge said in his post above, I don't think anyone is genuinely offended by the inclusion of that line in the anthem.

I wonder if religious people would be offended if the English lyrics were returned to their original state, though, where the God line wasn't part of the song? Why did Trudeau make that change to begin with? What was wrong with the traditional lyrics?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

None whatsoever. And if I have a private party at my house and invite everyone in the office except for the Jewish guy because I am antisemitic, I haven't violated anyones rights either.

So what exactly is your problem here?

[ricosuave]

I like the way that Devil's Advocate thinks.

I feel that while it did have a place in society at one time, that time has now passed, and it should be updated to reflect that.

Religion already does that for its own interests, songs stories and other literature, even language as a whole.

Its not about being 'politically correct' its about using a term that no one person has the right to force another person to use IE god. If its not universal, it can't be considered as such, and therefor, not appropriate.

What to put in its place, I have no idea.

[jammies]

I'm offended that the government didn't take the opportunity back in '82 to get someone like Neil Young or Rush to write a new anthem, something kinda 70s anthem-rockish. And we should have changed the flag to a hot chick in a fur bikini being pulled on a sled by polar bears. And we could've armed the RCMP colour guard with chainsaws and had 'em ride chromed-up motorbikes with apehanger handlebars instead of horses! Tradition schmadition!

[Burninator]

Just do what South Park did and replace any religious references with Science.

Science keep our land glorious and free!

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by troutman

After a few heroin beers, it is hard to stand for the anthem.

That's why everyone is standing when the anthems are played before the games, but in a championship game, when the anthem is played afterwards, everyone is swaying really badly.

[Claeren]

I don't sing that line of the anthem, but sing the rest louder than anyone else around me (whenever it is sung).

It was not added to address the Christian roots of Canadian society (of which there are few compared to other 'roots'), it was added 'to fight godless communism' and to appease a bunch of religious political types, both of which really have little role in todays world and a lesser role each year respectively. Seems like more of a political addition than a christian addition, and it seems only christians would want the/a government co-opting their faith and having it sung by mostly non- or quasi- believers of their faith.

Personally, even if i were christian, the last thing i would want is government being in my religous business. How many people here saying it should be in the anthem go to church every Sunday? Or go shopping or to a movie on a Sunday? How comical is it that the one tiny way they want to pay respect to their god is by forcing a bunch of non-believers to xsay it over and over at hockey games but when it comes to them sacrificing their time for their faith it is minimal at best? (And plummeting church attendance figures do not lie no matter if a bunch of you claim to be pious church goers).


Regardless, i will continue to not sing the entire anthem knowing that I am one of a growing group of citizens who do so. Now is not the time to remove it but in another generation i would bet that it is removed.




Claeren.

[Claeren]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Which principles of God and religion forming the basis of morality are you referring to, exactly? The 10 Commandments?

In a previous thread several months ago, I established that only two of the 10 Commandments actually coincide with laws in Canada, and the Charter even contradicts many of the other Commandments. Furthermore, the only two Commandments that match Canadian law (don't steal and don't kill) are actually universal values that transcend every society, regardless of the dominant religion (or lack of religion) in that region.

When you talk about Canada having been founded on the basis of (Christian) religion, you must realize that we're not talking about old men in 1867 founding the nation. When Canada's constitution was repatriated in 1982, that action superceded all previous laws, and at that time, it was agreed that Canada was a multicultural nation that granted freedom of conscience and religion to all citizens.

And that was a great post! You should repost it here...

[FireFly]

On a more serious note, don't all the radicals who want change for change's sake have something better to change... like something that would actually make a difference in people's everyday lives? If you want the anthem changed because you're some sort of homo(sapien so as not to offend anyone,) what really needs to happen is you need to get a life.

Canada Day is my favorite holiday other than Christmas. Why? Because of what it represents. Canada is the greatest country on the face of the earth, and you know what? Maybe that's because it was founded on Christian principles. Regardless of that, this is a fantastic country in which you and I have the right to agree to disagree on anything at any time. That doesn't make you right though.

It may not be perfect but I can't really think of a place I'd rather live in the world right now.

Keep the anthem. If you keep stripping away Canada's identity for the sake of political correctness, pretty soon they'll be no identity left except some sort of generic crap.