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Old 06-30-2008, 01:44 PM   #101
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06/30 14:41 CDT Surprising fact: Half of gun deaths are suicides

(AP) Surprising fact: Half of gun deaths are suicides

By MIKE STOBBE
AP Medical Writer
ATLANTA

The Supreme Court's landmark ruling on gun ownership last week focused on
citizens' ability to defend themselves from intruders in their homes. But
research shows that surprisingly often, gun owners use the weapons on
themselves.
Suicides accounted for 55 percent of the nation's nearly 31,000 firearm deaths
in 2005, the most recent year for which statistics are available from the
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
There was nothing unique about that year _ gun-related suicides have
outnumbered firearm homicides and accidents for 20 of the last 25 years. In
2005, homicides accounted for 40 percent of gun deaths. Accidents accounted for
3 percent. The remaining 2 percent included legal killings, such as when police
do the shooting, and cases that involve undetermined intent.
Public-health researchers have concluded that in homes where guns are present,
the likelihood that someone in the home will die from suicide or homicide is
much greater.
Studies have also shown that homes in which a suicide occurred were three to
five times more likely to have a gun present than households that did not
experience a suicide, even after accounting for other risk factors.
In a 5-4 decision, the high court on Thursday struck down a handgun ban enacted
in the District of Columbia in 1976 and rejected requirements that firearms
have trigger locks or be kept disassembled. The ruling left intact the
district's licensing restrictions for gun owners.
One public-health study found that suicide and homicide rates in the district
dropped after the ban was adopted. The district has allowed shotguns and rifles
to be kept in homes if they are registered, kept unloaded and taken apart or
equipped with trigger locks.
The American Public Health Association, the American Association of Suicidology
and two other groups filed a legal brief supporting the district's ban. The
brief challenged arguments that if a gun is not available, suicidal people will
just kill themselves using other means.
More than 90 percent of suicide attempts using guns are successful, while the
success rate for jumping from high places was 34 percent. The success rate for
drug overdose was 2 percent, the brief said, citing studies.
"Other methods are not as lethal," said Jon Vernick, co-director of the Johns
Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research in Baltimore.
The high court's majority opinion made no mention of suicide. But in a
dissenting opinion, Justice Stephen Breyer used the word 14 times in voicing
concern about the impact of striking down the handgun ban.
"If a resident has a handgun in the home that he can use for self-defense, then
he has a handgun in the home that he can use to commit suicide or engage in
acts of domestic violence," Breyer wrote.
Researchers in other fields have raised questions about the public-health
findings on guns.
Gary Kleck, a researcher at Florida State University's College of Criminology
and Criminal Justice, estimates there are more than 1 million incidents each
year in which firearms are used to prevent an actual or threatened criminal
attack.
Public-health experts have said the telephone survey methodology Kleck used
likely resulted in an overestimate.
Both sides agree there has been a significant decline in the last decade in
public-health research into gun violence.
The CDC traditionally was a primary funder of research on guns and gun-related
injuries, allocating more than $2.1 million a year to such projects in the
mid-1990s.
But the agency cut back research on the subject after Congress in 1996 ordered
that none of the CDC's appropriations be used to promote gun control.
Vernick said the Supreme Court decision underscores the need for further study
into what will happen to suicide and homicide rates in the district when the
handgun ban is lifted.
Today, the CDC budgets less than $900,000 for firearm-related projects, and
most of it is spent to track statistics. The agency no longer funds gun-related
policy analysis.
___
On the Net:
CDC gun injury statistics: http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc

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Old 06-30-2008, 02:20 PM   #102
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And if they can't use a gun, they'll just go jump off a cliff. God forbid that someone sees them do it too.
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Old 06-30-2008, 03:11 PM   #103
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I think quoting more than 10 words of the article is problematic so could the posted article be edited down?
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Old 06-30-2008, 03:33 PM   #104
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And if they can't use a gun, they'll just go jump off a cliff. God forbid that someone sees them do it too.
I don't know, are there any cliffs in Washington?

The thing with handguns is that they are just too damn convenient for there one purpose.
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:00 PM   #105
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I don't know, are there any cliffs in Washington?

The thing with handguns is that they are just too damn convenient for there one purpose.
Washington DC?

Lots of tall buildings to jump from.

Banning guns just because they make it easier for someone to commit suicide is a stupid idea.

Better they kill themselves in their own home, rather than going to the top of a public building, and throwing themselves off while a bunch of people are watching.
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:13 PM   #106
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Washington DC?

Lots of tall buildings to jump from.

Banning guns just because they make it easier for someone to commit suicide is a stupid idea.

Better they kill themselves in their own home, rather than going to the top of a public building, and throwing themselves off while a bunch of people are watching.
I kinda think it's a good thing that killing people, either yourself or others, isn't made easy.

You'll also notice that I said handguns, I'm not in favor of banning regular hunting rifles.
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:17 PM   #107
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I kinda think it's a good thing that killing people, either yourself or others, isn't made easy.
I understand that stance, I don't really see anything wrong with it, but i just don't see any reality in that. IT is still easy to kill anyone. You don't need a gun. The question is does someone kill only because they have a gun handy? If there was no gun in that situation would they still kill? Either way guns laws have no effect on criminal use of guns...criminals will still being using guns regardless...
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:23 PM   #108
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And if they can't use a gun, they'll just go jump off a cliff. God forbid that someone sees them do it too.

More than 90 percent of suicide attempts using guns are successful, while the success rate for jumping from high places was 34 percent. The success rate for drug overdose was 2 percent, the brief said, citing studies.
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:29 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan View Post
I kinda think it's a good thing that killing people, either yourself or others, isn't made easy.

You'll also notice that I said handguns, I'm not in favor of banning regular hunting rifles.
Ok so I am on a hunting trip, and say a bear charges from 25' do you seriously think someone with a "hunting rifle" will have enough time to shoulder his rifle, get the correct sight picture in the scope or sights, and get off an accurate enough shot to take down the bear.

A high powered revolver could save your life in this case, but since they are banned in your world I am basically dead.
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:37 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by MelBridgeman View Post
I understand that stance, I don't really see anything wrong with it, but i just don't see any reality in that. IT is still easy to kill anyone. You don't need a gun. The question is does someone kill only because they have a gun handy? If there was no gun in that situation would they still kill? Either way guns laws have no effect on criminal use of guns...criminals will still being using guns regardless...
I think that's crazy talk after you agree with making it more difficult to use a handgun you don't think that making it harder to get the handgun wouldn't cut down on their use. I don't think criminals come in just one type just as regular law abiding joes come in one type. There are some crooks who are non violent, some who are violent but don't use weapons and some who like and use guns. The more guns out there the more chance some non violent type has to raise the bar to survive.

I know in my experience, when I've been threatened, I've wanted to kill or at least cause someone some heavy damage and thankfully I didn't have a gun handy to test that desire. I don't think I'm alone in feeling that and I'm a pretty mellow guy.
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:40 PM   #111
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I think that's crazy talk after you agree with making it more difficult to use a handgun you don't think that making it harder to get the handgun wouldn't cut down on their use. I don't think criminals come in just one type just as regular law abiding joes come in one type. There are some crooks who are non violent, some who are violent but don't use weapons and some who like and use guns. The more guns out there the more chance some non violent type has to raise the bar to survive.

I know in my experience, when I've been threatened, I've wanted to kill or at least cause someone some heavy damage and thankfully I didn't have a gun handy to test that desire. I don't think I'm alone in feeling that and I'm a pretty mellow guy.
Well i guess my opinion makes me crazy. Let me rephrase....I don't see anything wrong with trying - I just don't think it makes that much of a difference - If it did..than i am all for it...crazy I know. Also if you have felt like killing someone, I strongly encourage you to get some help. I have never felt like killing anyone.
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:41 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Vulcan View Post
I kinda think it's a good thing that killing people, either yourself or others, isn't made easy.

You'll also notice that I said handguns, I'm not in favor of banning regular hunting rifles.
So you're saying that the presence of a handgun makes a difference?

Flawed logic Vulcan. If someone was intent on killing someone else, not having a gun isn't going to stop them. And to commit suicide? Lots of people say to witness someone killing themselves is a life-changing event. Not exactly something you want to see.
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:43 PM   #113
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I think that's crazy talk after you agree with making it more difficult to use a handgun you don't think that making it harder to get the handgun wouldn't cut down on their use. I don't think criminals come in just one type just as regular law abiding joes come in one type. There are some crooks who are non violent, some who are violent but don't use weapons and some who like and use guns. The more guns out there the more chance some non violent type has to raise the bar to survive.

I know in my experience, when I've been threatened, I've wanted to kill or at least cause someone some heavy damage and thankfully I didn't have a gun handy to test that desire. I don't think I'm alone in feeling that and I'm a pretty mellow guy.
Law-abiding citizens don't go out and kill other people. Without, or without guns.

If you can't control your emotions, that is YOUR problem. And just because you have an urge to hurt/kill someone, that doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to own a handgun.
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:46 PM   #114
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Ok so I am on a hunting trip, and say a bear charges from 25' do you seriously think someone with a "hunting rifle" will have enough time to shoulder his rifle, get the correct sight picture in the scope or sights, and get off an accurate enough shot to take down the bear.

A high powered revolver could save your life in this case, but since they are banned in your world I am basically dead.
Yeah, my brother in law has one of those revolvers, he even calls it his bear gun. He says the best time to shoot them is when they've been eating berries, more tasty and the meat isn't that bad. But he lives in the Queen Charlotte Islands, not in DC.
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:51 PM   #115
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Yeah, my brother in law has one of those revolvers, he even calls it his bear gun. He says the best time to shoot them is when they've been eating berries, more tasty and the meat isn't that bad. But he lives in the Queen Charlotte Islands, not in DC.
And banning guns in DC did nothing to curb the crime rate.

I still don't get the point you're trying to make.

That because you get emotional and angry when you're pissed off at someone, angry enough that you might want to kill someone at that moment, none of us should own guns?

I'm not liable because you can't control yourself. Nor is anyone else.

Law-abiding citizens are responsible, and they don't go out and kill someone in the heat of the moment.
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:52 PM   #116
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. If someone was intent on killing someone else, not having a gun isn't going to stop them.
I don't know what the point of this line of argument even is so I don't know why I'm sticking my nose in here, but this statement is obviously wrong.

Having a gun makes it easier to kill someone. Period. If I'm intent on killing my high school gym teacher because he made a crack about my short-shorts in front of the whole class 15 years ago, and I have a gun, I can just go knock on his door and shoot the guy.

If I don't have a gun but I have a bat or a knife of a short length of rope, that prick Mr. Johnston is probably going to survive our encounter and maybe even get me locked up.
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:57 PM   #117
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I don't know what the point of this line of argument even is so I don't know why I'm sticking my nose in here, but this statement is obviously wrong.

Having a gun makes it easier to kill someone. Period. If I'm intent on killing my high school gym teacher because he made a crack about my short-shorts in front of the whole class 15 years ago, and I have a gun, I can just go knock on his door and shoot the guy.

If I don't have a gun but I have a bat or a knife of a short length of rope, that prick Mr. Johnston is probably going to survive our encounter and maybe even get me locked up.
So who should we blame? The gun, or you for being an idiot and wanting to kill someone?

If Mr. Johnson had a gun, and knew how to defend himself, you wouldn't get far...even WITH a gun.

And you still haven't explained why any law-abiding citizen shouldn't own a gun because so idiot goes and kills someone else with the handgun he got for the surplus store the week before. I didn't break the law. You did.
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:59 PM   #118
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Well i guess my opinion makes me crazy. Let me rephrase....I don't see anything wrong with trying - I just don't think it makes that much of a difference - If it did..than i am all for it...crazy I know. Also if you have felt like killing someone, I strongly encourage you to get some help. I have never felt like killing anyone.
Well like I said, I was threatened and in what I felt was a life and death situation and how I felt at the time was probably a pretty natural response. Afterwards I'm glad I never took it any further but thanks for the diagnoses for something you know nothing about.
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Old 06-30-2008, 05:01 PM   #119
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Well like I said, I was threatened and in what I felt was a life and death situation and how I felt at the time was probably a pretty natural response. Afterwards I'm glad I never took it any further but thanks for the diagnoses for something you know nothing about.
You never said anything about self-defense...which would be pretty important to state if you are talking about how you wanted to kill someone.
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Old 06-30-2008, 05:02 PM   #120
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Well like I said, I was threatened and in what I felt was a life and death situation and how I felt at the time was probably a pretty natural response. Afterwards I'm glad I never took it any further but thanks for the diagnoses for something you know nothing about.
If you feel threatened, ESPECIALLY in a life and death situation, you have every right to use any means necessary to protect yourself.

But you made it seem like you wanted to go kill the guy AFTER all of that happened. I don't care what you went through, but you shouldn't want to do that, ever.
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